Daughter and friend play dress up - in hajib

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not 13:52, but what is wrong with being covered, and having American features? I'm an American- Muslim, originally from California. I have NEVER lived anywhere but the U.S. Every Muslim woman I know takes off her hijab when she is inside her home too.
My family isn't from the Middle East. My husband is a black man, who's family has only lived in DC. He doesn't force me to wear hijab. He doesn't force me to dress modestly.
@13:52 Thank you.

What the f*ck are "American" features you dolt?!

[Anonymous]

I've re-typed this about fifty times but I was wondering about at what age do girls start wearing this? I'm asking honestly, because I have seen a 3-4 year old wear one, but then others that do not. I know alot of it depends on family, but I don't know much about this subject so I was hoping someone who knew about it could tell me.

Also, why not an uproar about Amish people? What if your child was dressing up plain? And I read that Othrodox Jewish woman cover their heads and sometimes shave and wear a wig (Can someone tell me why?)

I am torn on this subject, I wish I knew someone to talk to or answer questions I have, because I watch movies and docu's about the horrors of it all but then I watch other things that talk about it being a choice and a sign of respect to God. But then we were out eating and a women was wearing one and when she came back from the bathroom, the part wasn't tucked into her shirt and her Husband got very upset...so then I go back thinking maybe it isn't a choice.

I read a book awhile ago "The Faith Club" that was interesting, has anyone read that book?

I dress modestly and bun my hair, which some of my friends comment on and it's not extreme at all! We try to live a sincere and honest life, so I am honestly asking the question and hope to get an honest answer!

[Anonymous]

This is quite possibly the most absurd thread.

[Anonymous]

To 15:11, the age a girl starts wearing it depends on the culture most of all. Many start at puberty. A Saudi child may start very young. An Egyptian girl waits until college or even marriage before she decides whether she wants to wear it or not. You almost never see young girls in Egypt wearing hijab.

Other examples are girls going to an Islamic school (here in the U.S.) who usually start wearing one (in school) in kindergarten or first grade. But they'd take it off as soon as they got out of school, like a Catholic school uniform.

Among the Tuareg (a North African tribal ethnic group), women don't wear head scarves at all, men do. And it's a matrilineal culture to boot, although very Muslim.

There are also large differences depending on socioeconomic status. The more money you have in many countries, the less likely a woman is to wear hijab.

My Muslim friends from India and Bangladesh have more in common culturally with Hindus, from the saris and salwar kameezes, to just a whisper of a scarf, if they wear one at all. None of my Iranian friends wear hijab. Most of my Pakistani friends do.

In my family, about 10% of women wear it. I have one friend who was heavily influenced by her father to wear it after she graduated from college. She wears something like this:

http://www.hijababayajilbab.com/wp-includes/images/HJBCP2004AA.gif

So yes, there is pressure. But not always. Nobody ever pressured me. They asked what I was going to do, and I told them. I do not cover. Neither of my daughters does (yet?). But if they do in the future, that is their decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you feel about Orthodox Jews having to cover their heads? Granted, many wear wigs, so does that make it less offensive to you?

Orthodox Judiaism has many more serious gender relations problems than just who covers their heads. Read Leviticus. Ritual uncleanliness because of menstruation.... child birth.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niddah

Any religious distinction between the sexes that denigrates one, whether through ritual, segregation, or dress, is offensive to me.

My Brother has decided to become an Orthodox Jew, so I am well aware of it...unfortunately. I was just speaking about having the head covered. Muslims are not the only ones who do it. Though, I have to say, the Orthodox Jewish community is very cult like in some ways. It's very had for me to understand what drew my Brother and his wife to it, especially since my brother is so science minded. I asked him how he can believe in evolution and Adam and Eve. Here is what he told me...."Humans did evolve as darwin theorized. However, it was not until the time of Adam and Eve that G-d put a soul into them". My sister in law told me I sound crazy because I saw something paranormal once....um, yeah, I think she is just as crazy as I am...if not more!

Anyway, back to the head covering. I think the kids are just playing dress up and that is that. I know quite a few people who come from religious Muslim families that cover their heads and they don't. For some people it is a choice. For some it's not. 13:52 did make a very good point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But, it is a choice compelled by messages and beliefs that men have created and crafted. The very basis of the idea that women (and only women) should hide their figure and/or face from others is steeped in chauvanistic and controlling male attitudes."

This is false. Do you know any Muslims?

A hijab doesn't hide your face. It is not much different from the headscarves European women wore in the early 1900's.

But we are no longer in the 1900s. That is more than one century [b]ago. We are in the 21st century!

Why does every culture have to conform to European and/or white and/or American and/or "Western" standards in order to be okay?

Just because European women covered their hair in the early 1900's but not longer do, Muslim women must also stop covering their heads? No. I hate it when American feminists try to force their brand of feminism on other cultures. Global feminism doesn't work, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who gave us all the love photos and pictures: This is an artist's image of what the Virgin Mary wore and looked like. Sister Theresa was a nun, in a religious order, and dressed as a member of that order. Margaret Thatcher was preserving her Coiffure and would have taken the scraf off the minute she was inside. Of course I know who both Benazir Bhutto (Pakistani) and Indira Ghandi (India) were and they are both dressed appropriately for their culture/country and age at the time. jasmine from Alladin's lamp is most certainly NOT America's version of a Muslim woman, it is Walt Disney's version of a Arabian Princess whicu is difefrent and a cartyoon character in a fairy tale story with a magic genii for goodness sake. The model in the Hijab has a pretty face with a bit too much make-up for my taste but where the hell is her hair and why does she have such "Western" features?? The model in the summer accessory hair twist is actually showing quite a lot of her hair and nothing about the way she is attired would be considered appropriate by the Islamic religious police. Lastly, the most immigrants that went though Ellis Island were peasants and this was the style at the time, not a form of oppression or masking of feminine wiles. Likely it was also a way to decrease the liklihood of lice infestation during the long trip here. Ellis Island operated from 1892 to about 1924, with 1907 being the peak year. Quite a while ago and fashions change, PP.

Not a single photographic or artistic image you provided proves anything other than that you like clip art.

So apparently the following are good reasons for wearing a veil:
1. If you don't always wear it.
2. If you are dressed appropriately for your culture/country/age.
3. If you have "Western" features. I guess that makes you look less threatening to other Americans.
4. If your head dress shows hair (even though many muslim women do this but you are too bigoted to realize)
5. If it was the style of the time and not oppression or masking feminine wiles
6. If its purpose is to protect against lice
7. If it is current fashion

For about 1 billion people, this style is appropriate to their country, culture, and age. It is the style of the time.

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all the replies so perhaps someone made this point, but I wanted to chime in and add that I don't think a headscarf/hijab is much more offensive to my own feminist sensibilities than a little girl dressing up as helpless Repunzel (sp?) or a princess in need of a prince to say her dragons. All bother me a little--but it's play and images/characters/ideas our girls encounter and naturally will want to play out to some extent.

[Anonymous]

I LOVE American Christians! You are so funny. If it does not conform to your odd standards, then by all means....it is exotic and strange. And, taboo.

Yes, drink the blood of your savior. Make sure to have your children pray to an old man in the sky who watches their every move and sends them to a firey place if they do not obey his rules written on stone.

Oh...but yes, Muslims and Jews are odd because they cover themselves out of respect for their lord.

[Anonymous]

I pity the poor fool who told my great-grandmother and the rest of her Hungarian Ellis Island-crossing friends that their bubushka head scarves were for the purpose of keeping lice out of their hair. The shrieks alone would have deafened anyone within 25 yards.

Such a ridiculous parody of a retro-explanation. It reminds me of "Motel of the Mysteries" where the anthropologist explains to the tour group that the toilet seat was a sacred amulet worn around the neck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:52 - yours was the most thought provoking comment in this thread. Kudos to you!

Agree. Excellent, excellent post!

[Anonymous]

Haven't read through the thread but did this really happen? Way to go OP for sparking controversy.

[Anonymous]

I wear a scarf over my head when it's cold out. I'm not religious, I just don't like hats.

[Anonymous]

If that was a sincere question about the Amish, I can give a partial answer. They believe (as do other faiths) that you must have your head covered to pray. And because they are so devout, they must be prepared for prayer at all times. Men, women and little children all follow this rule. It's about their relationship with their god, not with the opposite sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not 13:52, but what is wrong with being covered, and having American features? I'm an American- Muslim, originally from California. I have NEVER lived anywhere but the U.S. Every Muslim woman I know takes off her hijab when she is inside her home too.
My family isn't from the Middle East. My husband is a black man, who's family has only lived in DC. He doesn't force me to wear hijab. He doesn't force me to dress modestly.
@13:52 Thank you.

What the f*ck are "American" features you dolt?!

I obviously meant Western, because that's what was in bold ASSHOLE!