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Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:Here's how to climb the ladder:
Start your path to upgrade to regional ref as soon as posible. Getting to that level will open more doors, first at State Cups, and then at big tournaments. MLS Next national tournaments are where you really need to end up to be really noticed.
Take any mentoring opportunity you can get along the way...any big tournament should have some.
Obviously, on a week to week basis, ref the highest levels you can. Even as a grasroots ref, you should be able to get MLS Next assignments.
And for the person asking if it's possible to do this full time...only if you're a top level national ref hired by PRO, the USSF Pro Ref Organization. And even among the 100 or so PRO refs, only about 30 are full time.
DH is in his mid 30s, says he’ll grind like hell to reach PRO before he turns 45. Is he daydreaming or should I be supportive despite the fact I’m lonely at home?
For reaching PRO? I'm sorry, but unless he's already a National Referee, he's daydreaming. They focus on developing younger referees, so they can have longer careers at the top.
No exceptions if talent is there?
Look, I'm never going to say that he has zero chance, but it's as close as it gets to that, no matter how good he is.
Again, what level is he at now? Regional at least? You have to be a Regional Ref for at least two years before they'll even consider someone for National.
It's HARD getting to National Ref level these days. Back when I started, they were a dime a dozen, then they changed the program to only move the best and most promising refs up to National. There are lots of ref that apply, and they're selcted based on both talent and potential. There are plenty of fantastic 20-somethings trying to get to that level, and it makes more sense to bring those ref up, so by the time they make it to PRO, they're still young enough to have a decade or more on top.
Nansense. Ismail Elfath, Moroccan born, 41 years of age. MLS next pro debut last year. If you got it you got it. More than ever it’s now easier to rise above so much mediocrity and incompetent.
What are you talking about? Elfath started working MLS games in 2012 when he was 29.
Are you thinking of someone else?
Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:Here's how to climb the ladder:
Start your path to upgrade to regional ref as soon as posible. Getting to that level will open more doors, first at State Cups, and then at big tournaments. MLS Next national tournaments are where you really need to end up to be really noticed.
Take any mentoring opportunity you can get along the way...any big tournament should have some.
Obviously, on a week to week basis, ref the highest levels you can. Even as a grasroots ref, you should be able to get MLS Next assignments.
And for the person asking if it's possible to do this full time...only if you're a top level national ref hired by PRO, the USSF Pro Ref Organization. And even among the 100 or so PRO refs, only about 30 are full time.
DH is in his mid 30s, says he’ll grind like hell to reach PRO before he turns 45. Is he daydreaming or should I be supportive despite the fact I’m lonely at home?
For reaching PRO? I'm sorry, but unless he's already a National Referee, he's daydreaming. They focus on developing younger referees, so they can have longer careers at the top.
No exceptions if talent is there?
Look, I'm never going to say that he has zero chance, but it's as close as it gets to that, no matter how good he is.
Again, what level is he at now? Regional at least? You have to be a Regional Ref for at least two years before they'll even consider someone for National.
It's HARD getting to National Ref level these days. Back when I started, they were a dime a dozen, then they changed the program to only move the best and most promising refs up to National. There are lots of ref that apply, and they're selcted based on both talent and potential. There are plenty of fantastic 20-somethings trying to get to that level, and it makes more sense to bring those ref up, so by the time they make it to PRO, they're still young enough to have a decade or more on top.
Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:Here's how to climb the ladder:
Start your path to upgrade to regional ref as soon as posible. Getting to that level will open more doors, first at State Cups, and then at big tournaments. MLS Next national tournaments are where you really need to end up to be really noticed.
Take any mentoring opportunity you can get along the way...any big tournament should have some.
Obviously, on a week to week basis, ref the highest levels you can. Even as a grasroots ref, you should be able to get MLS Next assignments.
And for the person asking if it's possible to do this full time...only if you're a top level national ref hired by PRO, the USSF Pro Ref Organization. And even among the 100 or so PRO refs, only about 30 are full time.
DH is in his mid 30s, says he’ll grind like hell to reach PRO before he turns 45. Is he daydreaming or should I be supportive despite the fact I’m lonely at home?
For reaching PRO? I'm sorry, but unless he's already a National Referee, he's daydreaming. They focus on developing younger referees, so they can have longer careers at the top.
Here's how to climb the ladder:
Start your path to upgrade to regional ref as soon as posible. Getting to that level will open more doors, first at State Cups, and then at big tournaments. MLS Next national tournaments are where you really need to end up to be really noticed.
Take any mentoring opportunity you can get along the way...any big tournament should have some.
Obviously, on a week to week basis, ref the highest levels you can. Even as a grasroots ref, you should be able to get MLS Next assignments.
And for the person asking if it's possible to do this full time...only if you're a top level national ref hired by PRO, the USSF Pro Ref Organization. And even among the 100 or so PRO refs, only about 30 are full time.
Start your path to upgrade to regional ref as soon as posible. Getting to that level will open more doors, first at State Cups, and then at big tournaments. MLS Next national tournaments are where you really need to end up to be really noticed.
Take any mentoring opportunity you can get along the way...any big tournament should have some.
Obviously, on a week to week basis, ref the highest levels you can. Even as a grasroots ref, you should be able to get MLS Next assignments.
And for the person asking if it's possible to do this full time...only if you're a top level national ref hired by PRO, the USSF Pro Ref Organization. And even among the 100 or so PRO refs, only about 30 are full time.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ref didn't think it was a handball under current rules. VAR reviewed it and agreed. What else do you want?
We want the rules to be applied correctly. If the Mexican player slipped and his hand touched the ball by accident we get it.
But he was on one knee, looked at the ball, his palmed the freaking ball, then used the ball as a crutch to pick himself back up and dribbled away lol
The rule was not applied correctly in this case
And I assume that you've watched the presentations and read the guidance that the officials have been given about plays like this?
According to the current guidance being given to refs, the call on the field was correct.
Whether you agree with this guidance, which has changed significanly over the years, is another story.
This would have been a sure penalty a few years ago.
Whether you agree with this guidance, which has changed significanly over the years, is another story.
This would have been a sure penalty a few years ago.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can absolutely confirm ECNL teams headhunt super talented kids to hurt them and nock them out of games.
Big kids playing boot ball should be the motto.
I don't believe you. Why, because if this was true any sensible parent would remove their child from a team whose coach does this and would report it directly to the club.
Your child clearly does not play for a top team then. Most girls on these teams relish playing that YNT call-up and showing them they are nothing special. This leads to overaggressive play especially if there is a gap in quality, which their almost always is in this example. Add a coach who encourages pushing the boundaries and its a match where no one in complaining to parents about the coach. The talented technical players get kicked out of the game. Leading to coaches wanting bigger and more durable players who don;t have the technical ability to play fast with the ball on the deck so you have what we see in ECNL play, sadly predictable.
This is exactly my assessment as well.
ECNL needs to spent time educating refs about what dangerous play looks like. They also need to stand behind their refs when a decision is made. I get the meathead allure of going so hard that you hurt
others. But, this is counter productive to getting players into the next level if theyre all hurt and cant play any longer.
There are not ECNL refs, GA refs, etc. Refs are certified by a state association and the same refs officiate ECNL games, GA games, MLSN games, state association games. The assignors are going to put out the games and the best refs are going to signup for games that a) pay them the most and b) require least travel.
Offer more money for ECNL games but require passing a certification program that defines league expections for calls and player safety.
Seems easy to address
I like that idea, but where's the money coming from? You. Are you still going to want this when your fees go up?
As one of the PP said, we don't ref for a specific league, and there's no guidance on a league by league basis of how they want us to call a game.
Yes, generally speaking, the more skilled the team and the league, the more physicality we'll allow, but no one want to get to the point where a game is in any way unsafe. If the example the OP gave is accurate, then is sounds like the ref missed some calls, but there's certainly nothing systemic about it.
Anonymous wrote:This is great.SoccerRef wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So this is the problem....No one knows who to tell and when to tell them. So we are back where we started. So parents of young refs, please prepare you kid for the possible abuse he/she may receive and go and watch so nothing gets too out of hand. Be ready to intervene. Good luck everyone! Maybe get certified and you can ref with them.
Maryland abuse form:
https://www.jotform.com/app/220374946590159
DC/VA abuse form:
https://vadcsoccerref.wufoo.com/forms/referee-report-form-youth-match/
Email assignor as well.
Forgot to log in before posting that, and then couldn't edit.
Wanted to add that the MD form is a little bare-bones, but they'll get back to you to follow up. Never tried to report anything in VA/DC, so I can't tell you how well that works.
Thank you for this. You would think that a link to these forms would be provided during every field certification class and every recertification and, also, you would think that each assignor would send them out before each season. I've never seen or heard of these. Thanks again.
I'm certified through MD, and the State Ref organization sends this info out multiple times a year.
Just checking though my emails, and I see multiple assignors sent the info out as well. But yes, it should be all of them.
Here's what was said, along with the reporting link:
*Do NOT engage spectators!
*Treat what spectators say or do AS IF the Head Coach did or said (do NOT engage spectators!)
*Apply appropriate misconduct (warning, caution-yellow, or send off-red) directly to Head Coach per LAW 12 (do NOT engage spectators!)
Please continue to report all Referee abuse in your match report(s), to your Assignor(s), and/or on the app HERE. We are here to support you! We immediately act on Referee abuse when we're made aware. Coaches and Clubs have been suspended and expelled for their and their spectator's behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So this is the problem....No one knows who to tell and when to tell them. So we are back where we started. So parents of young refs, please prepare you kid for the possible abuse he/she may receive and go and watch so nothing gets too out of hand. Be ready to intervene. Good luck everyone! Maybe get certified and you can ref with them.
Maryland abuse form:
https://www.jotform.com/app/220374946590159
DC/VA abuse form:
https://vadcsoccerref.wufoo.com/forms/referee-report-form-youth-match/
Email assignor as well.
Forgot to log in before posting that, and then couldn't edit.
Wanted to add that the MD form is a little bare-bones, but they'll get back to you to follow up. Never tried to report anything in VA/DC, so I can't tell you how well that works.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:SoccerRef wrote:
Can you expand on this? In this context, what is "abuse"? A parent yelling...Hey Ref you are horrible? You should quit! Know the rules! Get out of the center circle! Get some glasses! Hey ref you're missing a good game out there! Is this abuse that should be reported to the assignor?
Yes.
If an adult is yelling insults at a kid - it’s abuse. Why do you not know that? That’s very worrying.
So taking the two posts together, you are thinking that, if a parent yells out to my 15 year old son, come on ref. Get some glasses. You need to start calling fouls. or that's a terrible call. I should report that to the state referee committee and the assignor? I mean seriously. That's like saying...if you see someone speeding, you should call the police. I'm not condoning parents saying anything to a ref, but this just isn't practical.
Wow, that's a totally pointless analogy. Try some common sense.
Parents should never be shouting at the refs, especially the younger ones.
Clearly though, a ref needs to have thick skin, and most of the basic stuff parents shout should roll of their backs and be ignored.
But if, in the opinion of the ref, there is anything that's over the line, persistant, or abusive, then yes, they should file a report.
And to answer one of the other questions, yes, pay has gone up a little, but nothing I'd say is significant enough to really turn the tide.
Anonymous wrote:
There are definitely levels to the refs and the assignors don’t just let anyone ref certain games.
Yes and no.
When I started reffing, you couldn't go near an ECNL or DA (precurser to MLS Next) game unless you had upgraded to a higher ref category.
But there are SO many games now, that assignors have to put refs on games that aren't ideal for them.
Just last week I saw a desperate email from an assigner looking for a center on a U15 MLS Next game, and it said experienced ref "preferred".
That's how dire things are in this area.
If you have a kid that refs, make sure they know that they should be reporting any abuse of any kind to their state ref committe. If they don't know how to do that, make sure they ask their assignor.
It's simple to do.
Also, we're now advised NEVER to talk to parents. If there are issues in the stands, you talk to the coach, and if they don't deal with it, or if the problems persist, then you can card the coach, or ask the coach to remove the parent.
And also, let's make this clear. None of the refs at your games are professional referees. Professional referees do this for a living...all the rest of us do this as a paid hobby. So to think that it's OK to abuse the refs at youth games because they're "professionals" is uttery ridiculous.
Yes, it's frustrating to have bad refs...my son plays ECNL, and I'm shocked at how bad some of them are. But let your coach deal with it. Period.
It's simple to do.
Also, we're now advised NEVER to talk to parents. If there are issues in the stands, you talk to the coach, and if they don't deal with it, or if the problems persist, then you can card the coach, or ask the coach to remove the parent.
And also, let's make this clear. None of the refs at your games are professional referees. Professional referees do this for a living...all the rest of us do this as a paid hobby. So to think that it's OK to abuse the refs at youth games because they're "professionals" is uttery ridiculous.
Yes, it's frustrating to have bad refs...my son plays ECNL, and I'm shocked at how bad some of them are. But let your coach deal with it. Period.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There would be a lot less screaming if the league would find better refs who are fit and knows the game.
No, there really woudn't.
This is 100% correct. I've reffed for decades, and been a ref assesor for the last few years as well.
There is no correlation between the amount of screaming, and the talent/fitness/knowledge of the refs.
And yes, it's a broken record, but there aren't nearly enough refs to go around, mainly becasue of the screamers.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We have a referee shortage because of parents
I'm a referee and I appreciate this thread. Thank you. However, and just as an FYI, although many parents/coaches/players are crazy, what makes me sick of reffing more than anything is the lack of professionalism of some of the other referees. We are supposed to be there 30 minutes prior...we check goals, flags, field conditions, check in players, etc. Some referees want to show up 10 minutes before kick off. Then they show up dressed like a slob. untucked shirts, socks down or wrong socks, won't buy a 2nd or 3rd colored jersey, etc etc., their lack of knowledge of the rules, their lack of fitness, lack of effort to follow the play, and things like this.
Someone brought up how would you like people at work to yell at you when you make a mistake at work...Great point, but how would you like to go to work/side hustle and have to work with one or two people of a team of 3) who don't give a S, they don't know what they are doing, they are unprepared, usually late, and you get lumped in with them because they are on your team. You wouldn't last long would you?
So to all the referees out there from a fellow referee...get your S together and I bet less parents/coaches/players would yell at us.
As a long-time ref, and former assesor, I completely understand how frustrating it is to work with an unprofessional ref, or to watch one officiating your kids. I have a son playing as well, and I often have to bite my tongue when a ref isn't doing their job.
With that said, the thought that a rise in referee prosessionalism would do anything to combat the rising abuse is laughable.
You could have FIFA officials working games, and they'd still have to deal with the exact stuff that we do.
Being the best ref in the world isn't going to stop the parent from screaming about missed offside calls on throw ins.
Being the best ref in the world isn't going to stop a coach from cursing my son in a foreign language.
And that's just from this weekend.
Look, I'm not going to dive too deep in the causes of abuse, and why it's on the rise....that's a whole other topic...but it's not going to go away until parents, coaches, and the leagues themselves decide it's going to go away.
Anonymous wrote:I have never ever made a comment to a ref and really do appreciate they are there. However, I watched two games this weekend where the ref was not calling legit fouls and was very worried someone was going to get injured. I was grateful when are usually mild-mannered coach stopped play to talk to one of the refs.
It is really dangerous when it becoming a shoving free for all.
And that same ref probably called things tighter the previous week, and was screamed at by parents to "let them play!" for 90 minutes.
I'm not dismissing your concern...saftey is the most important thing...but it's obviously a tough balance, and we can't win either way.