Van Lifer couple camping in Utah national park - two weeks later fiancee arrives in FL alone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sad. I really feel for the police officers that stopped them. I do really think they were doing their best to assess the situation and it can be so difficult because dv victims have been manipulated and made to feel like the problem so deeply that they can be very convincing. And it’s also really hard for even well meaning men not to connect and collude with men who in fact are often abusers as you see the police officers doing in the video multiple times (both talk about their wives or ex wives having anxiety. Anyway they seemed like they cared about their job and were trying to do the best they could and are human like all of us and now I’m sure are feeling guilt about this. It seemed like one of the officers was new on the job and being trained. Ugh. It would be great if men would stop.killing.women. Uggh

The did everything they could possibly do. They took her aside. They were so kind to her. They offered her options. But, they couldn’t force her to stay away from him. I’m sure they are second guessing everything. I feel so bad for them.

Did we watch the same video?

She was full on sobbing in the backseat. Clearly upset and anxious about something.

Then they put their little killer buddy up in a hotel and left her to fend for herself in a desert in a van.

I’m not saying they should be fired but let’s not pretend they gave a rat’s behind about that girl. They spent more time explaining the difference between a Class A and Class B felony and how it would look on his record than anything to do with ensuring she wasn’t a DV victim.

Hindsight is always 20/20. At a minimum the police gave her a major lifeline by giving her control from the vehicle and a night away from him. She could have fled. She could have driven to a police station. She could of done a lot of things. But unfortunately probably due to her age and thinking she was in love she may have not been capable of saving herself.

The other thing to keep in mind is if any of you have spent time driving in the western United States, particularly around national parks, is the sheer number of strange characters and drifters you come across. Many drunk on wanderlust and many drunk on others things. This wasn’t some residential subdivision the police pulled into. The small department did the best they could, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew when the search dogs left it was her.

Can they make Brian as a suspect now? Please??? And charge the parents with obstruction/accessory after the fact? Lying scumbags.

Unless it was really obvious how she died they may have to wait for the autopsy. She could of died by accident or a drug overdose and he’s going to claim he was afraid and left.

Just Stop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew when the search dogs left it was her.

Can they make Brian as a suspect now? Please??? And charge the parents with obstruction/accessory after the fact? Lying scumbags.

Unless it was really obvious how she died they may have to wait for the autopsy. She could of died by accident or a drug overdose and he’s going to claim he was afraid and left.

Just Stop

New poster here. No, whoever is posting the devil's advocate shouldn't stop, because that's what the defense will look like. You've got to think like a lawyer defending an accused murderer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sad. I really feel for the police officers that stopped them. I do really think they were doing their best to assess the situation and it can be so difficult because dv victims have been manipulated and made to feel like the problem so deeply that they can be very convincing. And it’s also really hard for even well meaning men not to connect and collude with men who in fact are often abusers as you see the police officers doing in the video multiple times (both talk about their wives or ex wives having anxiety. Anyway they seemed like they cared about their job and were trying to do the best they could and are human like all of us and now I’m sure are feeling guilt about this. It seemed like one of the officers was new on the job and being trained. Ugh. It would be great if men would stop.killing.women. Uggh

The did everything they could possibly do. They took her aside. They were so kind to her. They offered her options. But, they couldn’t force her to stay away from him. I’m sure they are second guessing everything. I feel so bad for them.

Pp here, exactly I totally agree. I feel terribly that they will carry this guilt when it did seem like they genuinely tried to do their best - like you said separating her and trying to determine what happened. And like you said there was no evidence to separate them further than they did. In discussing the colluding etc, I didn’t mean that in a negative fashion to them- it happened to most of us watching the video if you read this thread. Abusers are so good at appearing harmless. Just meant they were in such a hard position and we are all going to look for ways to connect with someone which makes it hard for male cops. I really really feel for them. And agree they were incredibly kind for her and took far more time than I would expect law enforcement to do honeslty

The more we say "Aw, shucks, they did the best they could" the more things will never change. Law enforcement need bias training and mental health training. They need to have independent mental health coordinators to review the footage and go over it with them so they can improve. People have been adept at reading his behavior from the video, and instead of being defensive, they should want to learn from it. Especially since we now know how it turns out.

And, no this is not a rant on policing. It's saying that while most have good intentions, those intentions are not enough. They need updated skills and training.

People have been adept at reading his behavior with the hindsight of knowing that she was missing and it was likely his fault. That's a very different circumstance than when you're confronted with it in the field. I do agree though that more training is really necessary. And that videos like this could be helpful in that training (with analysis by DV experts, not armchair internet quarterbacks.)

The problem is though, that even if they realized he was a controlling, potentially abusive ahole, what were they supposed to do that specific day? She wouldn't press charges or say he hurt her. There was no evidence that he hurt her. They had her talk to her parents and they had them separate for the night. They can't arrest him for being a controlling, manipulative jerk. So what is the answer in this kind of situation (and I ask that as a real question, not a rhetorical one)? The only thing I can think of is to try and get her to a situation where she speaks with a social worker or DV counselor who might be able to help her realize she's not in a safe or healthy situation. But you can't force an adult to do that, right? And leaving a DV situation is not usually a realization people come to quickly, especially when they may not be in the best mental health and have been conditioned to blame themselves for things.

I disagree with the first bolded. People recognized it without knowing what had happened yet. There is some predictability in behavior, i.e. many serial killers first killed animals.

I don't know what the answer is because I'm not an expert. But, I am guessing there are many experts out there would love to consult and create training programs.

She was already missing and the BF had lawyered up. The video is viewed through the lens that of course he harmed her (as these cases always go). Your bias was already there upon viewing it the first time.

Agree. No one has explained what the police were supposed to have done that they didn’t do. They had no basis for a charge. They had her call her parents and separated them for the night, but they couldn’t force her to stay away from him. Remember, this is tiny Moab, Utah, not a major city with significant social services resources.

People always want to believe that the terrible thing could have been prevented, but sometimes terrible things happen to people, and there’s really nothing anyone else could have done about it.

[Anonymous]

I thought the police were very professional. Not to derail, all I could think about is the difference between these officers and white citizens, and all the videos I've seen of POC/police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Terrible news, but at least the family can have closure.

Now the MF Laundrie family. I hope they all rot in hell.

There is no such thing and no one should use that word to anyone who has lost a child, especially one who was murdered

[Anonymous]

On the police front, this is another example of us asking police officers who join the force to fight crime having to deal with things they aren’t experts on. Even though three were nice, understanding and professional, I wish she could have had access to a DV counselor who was better trained to help.

And I really, really hope the guy’s parents get charged with something. They knew since the 1st that something was not right and that her parents were frantic. Their behavior is immoral and shameful. And hopefully against the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Terrible news, but at least the family can have closure.

Now the MF Laundrie family. I hope they all rot in hell.

There is no such thing and no one should use that word to anyone who has lost a child, especially one who was murdered

I agree. Of course it's best when murdered people are found. But it's not closure or consolation.

[Anonymous]

Well I truly hope the boyfriend is in hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the last Instagram post from Gabby is odd. Would she take all that trouble of making a Halloween photo shoot and post it in August? She had already posted another mural one. It seems like that would be held on to until October. I wonder if authorities can time stamp that post. The couple were spotted in Victor that day. Also she spoke to her mom on the 24th. Can the police get the location of the texts her mom received the rest of the week to see if the location matched up to where Gabby said she was? Brian was spotted alone at a bar the evening of the 26th at Bullwinkles by Yellowstone. If that last post was not from her then he could have killed her the night of the 25th in Idaho after the sighting in Victor. He could have gotten rid of her body in Idaho while traveling north on 20 on the way to Yellowstone. Then the next night he is seen at Bullwinkles. Then he travels south back through Teton where his van was seen by the couple and where they are searching now. At that point it could have only been Brian in the van on his own hiding trying to figure out what to do next.

Either the police know way more than they are letting on, or they are looking for a needle in a haystack.

Where does everyone think Brian is?

Mexico.

+1 He finally admitted to his parents that he killed her and they helped him get out of the country.

I realize that this sounds a little out there, but I think he's somewhere without an extradition treaty. The Laundrie family has been totally methodical in shielding him from the police.

Well, if she were my child, I'd be finding Brian myself.... and NOT to arrest him.

I wouldn't stop until I did

[Anonymous]

I would find him and torture him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so sad. I really feel for the police officers that stopped them. I do really think they were doing their best to assess the situation and it can be so difficult because dv victims have been manipulated and made to feel like the problem so deeply that they can be very convincing. And it’s also really hard for even well meaning men not to connect and collude with men who in fact are often abusers as you see the police officers doing in the video multiple times (both talk about their wives or ex wives having anxiety. Anyway they seemed like they cared about their job and were trying to do the best they could and are human like all of us and now I’m sure are feeling guilt about this. It seemed like one of the officers was new on the job and being trained. Ugh. It would be great if men would stop.killing.women. Uggh

The did everything they could possibly do. They took her aside. They were so kind to her. They offered her options. But, they couldn’t force her to stay away from him. I’m sure they are second guessing everything. I feel so bad for them.

Pp here, exactly I totally agree. I feel terribly that they will carry this guilt when it did seem like they genuinely tried to do their best - like you said separating her and trying to determine what happened. And like you said there was no evidence to separate them further than they did. In discussing the colluding etc, I didn’t mean that in a negative fashion to them- it happened to most of us watching the video if you read this thread. Abusers are so good at appearing harmless. Just meant they were in such a hard position and we are all going to look for ways to connect with someone which makes it hard for male cops. I really really feel for them. And agree they were incredibly kind for her and took far more time than I would expect law enforcement to do honeslty

The more we say "Aw, shucks, they did the best they could" the more things will never change. Law enforcement need bias training and mental health training. They need to have independent mental health coordinators to review the footage and go over it with them so they can improve. People have been adept at reading his behavior from the video, and instead of being defensive, they should want to learn from it. Especially since we now know how it turns out.

And, no this is not a rant on policing. It's saying that while most have good intentions, those intentions are not enough. They need updated skills and training.

Sounds like the bias training most of this board wants police to get is: the man is always guilty.

- how has that worked out for men of color?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would find him and torture him.

- my point exactly.

Let’s all jump to conclusions and torture people. Great idea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the last Instagram post from Gabby is odd. Would she take all that trouble of making a Halloween photo shoot and post it in August? She had already posted another mural one. It seems like that would be held on to until October. I wonder if authorities can time stamp that post. The couple were spotted in Victor that day. Also she spoke to her mom on the 24th. Can the police get the location of the texts her mom received the rest of the week to see if the location matched up to where Gabby said she was? Brian was spotted alone at a bar the evening of the 26th at Bullwinkles by Yellowstone. If that last post was not from her then he could have killed her the night of the 25th in Idaho after the sighting in Victor. He could have gotten rid of her body in Idaho while traveling north on 20 on the way to Yellowstone. Then the next night he is seen at Bullwinkles. Then he travels south back through Teton where his van was seen by the couple and where they are searching now. At that point it could have only been Brian in the van on his own hiding trying to figure out what to do next.

Either the police know way more than they are letting on, or they are looking for a needle in a haystack.

Where does everyone think Brian is?

Mexico.

+1 He finally admitted to his parents that he killed her and they helped him get out of the country.

I realize that this sounds a little out there, but I think he's somewhere without an extradition treaty. The Laundrie family has been totally methodical in shielding him from the police.

Well, if she were my child, I'd be finding Brian myself.... and NOT to arrest him.

I wouldn't stop until I did

+1! I hope the family is charged. I’m sure he’s not in the reserve but rather in another country. Police are taking the families word that’s where Brian said he went…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just saw this news and I can’t wrap my head around it. She seemed like such a happy, smiling young woman with her whole life ahead of her. I hope her family is able to eventually find peace. And I hope her murderer never does.

Completely agree. Just watch the video of her on page 1 of this thread. It’s like we have known her all our lives from that video. Like we are soul mates with her.

Him on the other hand, you can tell right away he’s a cold blooded murderer; probably a serial killer. I can feel it. The video on the first pate of this thread doesn’t lie.