A theory about "tough love" friends

[Anonymous]

No one needs a friend whose role is to provide "tough love", ie. telling them the unvarnished truth that they don't want to hear.

Sometimes people need tough love in very specific situations. But it's a tricky thing. A close friend may not actually be a good source of tough love. The best tough love I've gotten has come from people who were familiar with a specific situation I was in but who I was not personally close to. I think that's because if someone very close to you gives you tough love, it's impossible not to feel judged by it. Someone with a bit more remove can weigh in and it feels like an unbiased opinion.

I've had friends (please note the past tense) who believed it was their role, either in my life or just in general, to provide tough love. In the end I just felt like these people didn't like or respect me very much. I had one friend who, when I objected to once such incidence of tough love and asked instead for support, derisively said "What, you just want me to be your cheerleader?" I mean, when you say it that way it sounds dumb, but: yes. That's what friends are for, in my opinion.

Obviously if you have a friend who has a drug addiction, a personality disorder or issue that is impacting their ability to work or have functional relationships, or is otherwise self-destructive, you don't have to cheerlead their specific self-destructive behavior. But you can certainly cheerlead their recovery, or seeking therapy or support. Truthfully, even someone in a dire situation is unlikely to get better with tough love. They are probably better off with just regular love.

Anyway, if your whole personality is that you are the "tough love" friend who "tells it like it is", I wonder if you should rethink that approach. It's unlikely that it's helping anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one needs a friend whose role is to provide "tough love", ie. telling them the unvarnished truth that they don't want to hear.

Sometimes people need tough love in very specific situations. But it's a tricky thing. A close friend may not actually be a good source of tough love. The best tough love I've gotten has come from people who were familiar with a specific situation I was in but who I was not personally close to. I think that's because if someone very close to you gives you tough love, it's impossible not to feel judged by it. Someone with a bit more remove can weigh in and it feels like an unbiased opinion.

I've had friends (please note the past tense) who believed it was their role, either in my life or just in general, to provide tough love. In the end I just felt like these people didn't like or respect me very much. I had one friend who, when I objected to once such incidence of tough love and asked instead for support, derisively said "What, you just want me to be your cheerleader?" I mean, when you say it that way it sounds dumb, but: yes. That's what friends are for, in my opinion.

Obviously if you have a friend who has a drug addiction, a personality disorder or issue that is impacting their ability to work or have functional relationships, or is otherwise self-destructive, you don't have to cheerlead their specific self-destructive behavior. But you can certainly cheerlead their recovery, or seeking therapy or support. Truthfully, even someone in a dire situation is unlikely to get better with tough love. They are probably better off with just regular love.

Anyway, if your whole personality is that you are the "tough love" friend who "tells it like it is", I wonder if you should rethink that approach. It's unlikely that it's helping anyone.

Only give advice if asked directly. My question to you is how do you perceive yourself as a friend? Maybe others find you lacking because you don't tell them the truth. Either way, the friends you lost gained so much more in losing you.

[Anonymous]

Only give advice if asked directly. My question to you is how do you perceive yourself as a friend? Maybe others find you lacking because you don't tell them the truth. Either way, the friends you lost gained so much more in losing you.

Pardon?

[Anonymous]

I've got tough love friends. In certain cases I've been the tough love friend. I don't think there's an easy answer here. Personal preference plays a large role. As do a lot of subtleties. But yeah, if I'm repeatedly behaving in a way that's likely to hurt other people or cause me pain down the road, I absolutely want a close friend to be like "this is a mistake." And I do the same for my friends. But at what point in the sliding scale? That's important. Generally, you've gotta be pretty far down the self destruction path for me to call you out, absent you asking for my advice. But ohhhhh man, if you ask for my advice? You're getting the unvarnished truth.

Once I knocked on a close friends door with a new haircut and she literally laughed in my face. And you know what? She was right, it was a bad haircut for me (though it took about a year for me to admit that). I absolutely need friends like that, and want them. It might not be for you, and that's fine, too.

[Anonymous]

So many women these days only want to hear what they want to hear. The truth is too hard to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've got tough love friends. In certain cases I've been the tough love friend. I don't think there's an easy answer here. Personal preference plays a large role. As do a lot of subtleties. But yeah, if I'm repeatedly behaving in a way that's likely to hurt other people or cause me pain down the road, I absolutely want a close friend to be like "this is a mistake." And I do the same for my friends. But at what point in the sliding scale? That's important. Generally, you've gotta be pretty far down the self destruction path for me to call you out, absent you asking for my advice. But ohhhhh man, if you ask for my advice? You're getting the unvarnished truth.

Once I knocked on a close friends door with a new haircut and she literally laughed in my face. And you know what? She was right, it was a bad haircut for me (though it took about a year for me to admit that). I absolutely need friends like that, and want them. It might not be for you, and that's fine, too.

I do not want friends like this because I had "tough love" parents and spent my entire childhood feeling judged and found wanting. I hate feeling judged by my friends and it is not why I make friends. Let me make my mistakes. It's my life.

I also think that if you are worried about a friend or think they are making a mistake, the place to start is asking questions and trying to understand. If your first instinct is to jump in with advice or to tell people they are doing it wrong, you are very likely to alienate your friend. If your goal is actually to help (and not just to judge), then you should want to fully understand the situation and see if there is something you are not getting. I always start from the perspective that other people understand their own lives better than I do because I think anything else is arrogant and probably mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many women these days only want to hear what they want to hear. The truth is too hard to hear.

What is it that you think these women need to hear? Where are all these women who have made all the wrong choices and are living the wrong lives? What makes you think you are in a position to tell other people how to live? What is so special about you?

Nothing. There is nothing special about you. You also make mistakes. Also, some people just want different things. What you think is "the truth" is actually just your opinion, and I agree that "so many women" do not want to hear it. That should tell you something.

[Anonymous]

Your premise is flawed because the concept of "tough love" is subjective.

[Anonymous]

I had a friend who married a guy against all advice. I didn't come right out and say "don't marry him" but asked a lot of questions to see if she really thought he was "the one". They were clearly a bad match. Then the marriage was doomed from the start when they had a miserable honeymoon and dragged on for about a year and a half before ending in divorce. It's hard to listen to someone moan and complain about a situation entirely of her own making that was completely avoidable. It's too taxing to be with friends with someone like that, so, we're not friends anymore.

[Anonymous]

I have a friend who married a guy who is perfect for her, just not perfect for the life she dreamed of. I knew this is the way it would turn out (she's the breadwinner and his credit is shot) but I let her make her 'mistakes'. I also don't bother listening to her complain because again...personal choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who married a guy against all advice. I didn't come right out and say "don't marry him" but asked a lot of questions to see if she really thought he was "the one". They were clearly a bad match. Then the marriage was doomed from the start when they had a miserable honeymoon and dragged on for about a year and a half before ending in divorce. It's hard to listen to someone moan and complain about a situation entirely of her own making that was completely avoidable. It's too taxing to be with friends with someone like that, so, we're not friends anymore.

This is the OP and this is a great example of why I don't think tough love friends make sense.

You obviously don't like this woman, do not respect her, and do not think she is capable of making her own decisions. The correct choice is to say to yourself "Wow, I do not like this person, I choose not to be friends with her." Not to pursue a friendship with her that largely involves you doling out "tough love." She wouldn't want to hear it and you would just get mad when she didn't do precisely what you wanted.

Now I can envision a friend for this woman who doesn't sit around judging her relationship and referring to her as moaning and complaining. I can imagine a friend who might not think this is the right guy for her, might even express this out loud, once, but who also respects her friend to make her own choices and is supportive when her friend seems excited about her marriage. After all, this friend might acknowledge to herself that you can't know everything that goes on in someone else's relationship and that this is her friend's decision to make.

This friend might take some time to understand why the woman is drawn to this guy who doesn't seem right for her (what's her past like? what's her upbringing like? does she have self-esteem problems? etc.) and, in trying to understand, have some empathy for the friend. This friend might also have some humility and not that she, too, is imperfect and that mistakes are a part of life and that no one gets everything right all the time. This friend could be there for this woman when she went through her divorce and could turn around and be a good friend in return because she felt loved and supported and respected.

No one needs tough love friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who married a guy against all advice. I didn't come right out and say "don't marry him" but asked a lot of questions to see if she really thought he was "the one". They were clearly a bad match. Then the marriage was doomed from the start when they had a miserable honeymoon and dragged on for about a year and a half before ending in divorce. It's hard to listen to someone moan and complain about a situation entirely of her own making that was completely avoidable. It's too taxing to be with friends with someone like that, so, we're not friends anymore.

This is the OP and this is a great example of why I don't think tough love friends make sense.

You obviously don't like this woman, do not respect her, and do not think she is capable of making her own decisions. The correct choice is to say to yourself "Wow, I do not like this person, I choose not to be friends with her." Not to pursue a friendship with her that largely involves you doling out "tough love." She wouldn't want to hear it and you would just get mad when she didn't do precisely what you wanted.

Now I can envision a friend for this woman who doesn't sit around judging her relationship and referring to her as moaning and complaining. I can imagine a friend who might not think this is the right guy for her, might even express this out loud, once, but who also respects her friend to make her own choices and is supportive when her friend seems excited about her marriage. After all, this friend might acknowledge to herself that you can't know everything that goes on in someone else's relationship and that this is her friend's decision to make.

This friend might take some time to understand why the woman is drawn to this guy who doesn't seem right for her (what's her past like? what's her upbringing like? does she have self-esteem problems? etc.) and, in trying to understand, have some empathy for the friend. This friend might also have some humility and not that she, too, is imperfect and that mistakes are a part of life and that no one gets everything right all the time. This friend could be there for this woman when she went through her divorce and could turn around and be a good friend in return because she felt loved and supported and respected.

No one needs tough love friends.

Nobody needs emotional vampires either. She wasn't a very smart person and it got tiring watching someone make a mess of her own life. If you want to do stupid things, then do it and don't complain. It's taking advantage of someone else to expect them to be your emotional support for your obvious mistakes. You made your bed, lie in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Only give advice if asked directly. My question to you is how do you perceive yourself as a friend? Maybe others find you lacking because you don't tell them the truth. Either way, the friends you lost gained so much more in losing you.

Pardon?

Which part confused you? I forgot to write I only give advice when asked directly. Other than that seems pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who married a guy against all advice. I didn't come right out and say "don't marry him" but asked a lot of questions to see if she really thought he was "the one". They were clearly a bad match. Then the marriage was doomed from the start when they had a miserable honeymoon and dragged on for about a year and a half before ending in divorce. It's hard to listen to someone moan and complain about a situation entirely of her own making that was completely avoidable. It's too taxing to be with friends with someone like that, so, we're not friends anymore.

This is the OP and this is a great example of why I don't think tough love friends make sense.

You obviously don't like this woman, do not respect her, and do not think she is capable of making her own decisions. The correct choice is to say to yourself "Wow, I do not like this person, I choose not to be friends with her." Not to pursue a friendship with her that largely involves you doling out "tough love." She wouldn't want to hear it and you would just get mad when she didn't do precisely what you wanted.

Now I can envision a friend for this woman who doesn't sit around judging her relationship and referring to her as moaning and complaining. I can imagine a friend who might not think this is the right guy for her, might even express this out loud, once, but who also respects her friend to make her own choices and is supportive when her friend seems excited about her marriage. After all, this friend might acknowledge to herself that you can't know everything that goes on in someone else's relationship and that this is her friend's decision to make.

This friend might take some time to understand why the woman is drawn to this guy who doesn't seem right for her (what's her past like? what's her upbringing like? does she have self-esteem problems? etc.) and, in trying to understand, have some empathy for the friend. This friend might also have some humility and not that she, too, is imperfect and that mistakes are a part of life and that no one gets everything right all the time. This friend could be there for this woman when she went through her divorce and could turn around and be a good friend in return because she felt loved and supported and respected.

No one needs tough love friends.

Nobody needs emotional vampires either. She wasn't a very smart person and it got tiring watching someone make a mess of her own life. If you want to do stupid things, then do it and don't complain. It's taking advantage of someone else to expect them to be your emotional support for your obvious mistakes. You made your bed, lie in it.

I'm the PP and will add to this that my friend wasn't a good friend to me. When my husband got laid off and money was tight she responded by harassing me to host her MLM party and invite all my friends and buy products I didn't need and couldn't afford at the time. Friendship should be a two way street but this former friend was all about the taking, not the giving. So, no, I don't have time to play psychiatrist to this person. We were childhood friends who outgrew each other, hence, we are no longer friends. So I didn't seek her out as an adult. As an adult, I want different types of friends. I'm sure she doesn't miss me any more than I miss her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who married a guy against all advice. I didn't come right out and say "don't marry him" but asked a lot of questions to see if she really thought he was "the one". They were clearly a bad match. Then the marriage was doomed from the start when they had a miserable honeymoon and dragged on for about a year and a half before ending in divorce. It's hard to listen to someone moan and complain about a situation entirely of her own making that was completely avoidable. It's too taxing to be with friends with someone like that, so, we're not friends anymore.

This is the OP and this is a great example of why I don't think tough love friends make sense.

You obviously don't like this woman, do not respect her, and do not think she is capable of making her own decisions. The correct choice is to say to yourself "Wow, I do not like this person, I choose not to be friends with her." Not to pursue a friendship with her that largely involves you doling out "tough love." She wouldn't want to hear it and you would just get mad when she didn't do precisely what you wanted.

Now I can envision a friend for this woman who doesn't sit around judging her relationship and referring to her as moaning and complaining. I can imagine a friend who might not think this is the right guy for her, might even express this out loud, once, but who also respects her friend to make her own choices and is supportive when her friend seems excited about her marriage. After all, this friend might acknowledge to herself that you can't know everything that goes on in someone else's relationship and that this is her friend's decision to make.

This friend might take some time to understand why the woman is drawn to this guy who doesn't seem right for her (what's her past like? what's her upbringing like? does she have self-esteem problems? etc.) and, in trying to understand, have some empathy for the friend. This friend might also have some humility and not that she, too, is imperfect and that mistakes are a part of life and that no one gets everything right all the time. This friend could be there for this woman when she went through her divorce and could turn around and be a good friend in return because she felt loved and supported and respected.

No one needs tough love friends.

Nobody needs emotional vampires either. She wasn't a very smart person and it got tiring watching someone make a mess of her own life. If you want to do stupid things, then do it and don't complain. It's taking advantage of someone else to expect them to be your emotional support for your obvious mistakes. You made your bed, lie in it.

I am so sorry you lost this dear friend. I can see you are broken up about it.

Why are you mad about HER choices? Really, you need to look inward to figure out why someone else's decisions about their own life make you so angry. It's weird.