Barr and Durham

[Anonymous]

Where and when was this information shared and by whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

the contract in place was to scan for nefarious activity and protect against it. there is zero proof of any information being shared or use by private investigators, law firms or political campaigns

Well, that's what Durham said happened in the court filing. If we don't trust Durham, that's a different argument. These allegations need to be proven, of course. Personally, I fail to see an alternative explanation as to why this private investigator was in possession of EOP DNS access records and provided it in a meeting with a government agency (CIA?).

[Anonymous]

I’m more concerned that a presidential campaign was open to help from a foreign adversary.
Is that not the bigger concern?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where and when was this information shared and by whom?

Here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m more concerned that a presidential campaign was open to help from a foreign adversary.
Is that not the bigger concern?

It's OK if you're Republican

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

the contract in place was to scan for nefarious activity and protect against it. there is zero proof of any information being shared or use by private investigators, law firms or political campaigns

Well, that's what Durham said happened in the court filing. If we don't trust Durham, that's a different argument. These allegations need to be proven, of course. Personally, I fail to see an alternative explanation as to why this private investigator was in possession of EOP DNS access records and provided it in a meeting with a government agency (CIA?).

They will never be proven, because they are utterly irrelevant to the charged conduct. They don't appear anywhere in the indictment and have nothing to do with the alleged false statement to Baker. Durham just slipped them into a filing regarding alleged conflicts of interest that Sussman had already waived. So he can unaccountably make wild accusations without ever having to present any evidence for them.

In any case, the allegations don't make sense. The EOP access and records all pertained to the time period when Obama was president. How would that indicate any kind of spying on Trump?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where and when was this information shared and by whom?

Here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

I don't really think the biggest issue is the access to DNS info of Trump's private companies and organizations. Those ISPs probably have agreements in place that allow them to disclose such information to a third party, buried in their service agreement. The bigger issue is the EOP. Any electronic communications from that entity are almost certainly privileged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

the contract in place was to scan for nefarious activity and protect against it. there is zero proof of any information being shared or use by private investigators, law firms or political campaigns

Well, that's what Durham said happened in the court filing. If we don't trust Durham, that's a different argument. These allegations need to be proven, of course. Personally, I fail to see an alternative explanation as to why this private investigator was in possession of EOP DNS access records and provided it in a meeting with a government agency (CIA?).

They will never be proven, because they are utterly irrelevant to the charged conduct. They don't appear anywhere in the indictment and have nothing to do with the alleged false statement to Baker. Durham just slipped them into a filing regarding alleged conflicts of interest that Sussman had already waived. So he can unaccountably make wild accusations without ever having to present any evidence for them.

In any case, the allegations don't make sense. The EOP access and records all pertained to the time period when Obama was president. How would that indicate any kind of spying on Trump?

What do these words mean to you: "The Government's evidence at trial will establish..." Go read the filing again.

I also don't understand your logic in the bolded part. It's like saying that a fisherman wasn't fishing because his net also caught some shrimp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the same folks accusing Trump of insurrection, we now find out were spying on him. Interesting development

They weren't spying on him. Read the primary source documents. It was a contract under the Obama administration that tracked DNS records (public) to mitigate hacking threats. You would know that if you consumed reliable sources of news, but instead, you go with the ones that also told you Trump was a legit billionaire, that Seth Rich was murdered and there was a child sex ring operating out of Comet Pizza's nonexistant basement.

Why do you like being lied to, and why do you propagate the lies?

“Joffe's company, Durham says, "had come to access and maintain dedicated servers for the EOP as part of a sensitive arrangement" — a government contract — to provide tech services. They then "exploited this arrangement by mining the EOP's [Internet] traffic and other data for the purpose of gathering derogatory information about Donald Trump."”

That’s the rest of the story

Except that isn't what happened. The data being scanned was public DNS numbers, not private content. And it was done for the purpose of mitigating and neutraliizing hackers. Not burrowing in to senstive back end content.

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

Unless for a legitimate government purpose, as in this case. Gov’t uses contractors to do research ALL THE TIME.

That research does not allow disclosure of underlying data to third parties, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns. It's privileged sensitive information. It's the same in nature as the phone numbers dialed by the president.

What disclosures?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the same folks accusing Trump of insurrection, we now find out were spying on him. Interesting development

They weren't spying on him. Read the primary source documents. It was a contract under the Obama administration that tracked DNS records (public) to mitigate hacking threats. You would know that if you consumed reliable sources of news, but instead, you go with the ones that also told you Trump was a legit billionaire, that Seth Rich was murdered and there was a child sex ring operating out of Comet Pizza's nonexistant basement.

Why do you like being lied to, and why do you propagate the lies?

“Joffe's company, Durham says, "had come to access and maintain dedicated servers for the EOP as part of a sensitive arrangement" — a government contract — to provide tech services. They then "exploited this arrangement by mining the EOP's [Internet] traffic and other data for the purpose of gathering derogatory information about Donald Trump."”

That’s the rest of the story

Except that isn't what happened. The data being scanned was public DNS numbers, not private content. And it was done for the purpose of mitigating and neutraliizing hackers. Not burrowing in to senstive back end content.

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

Unless for a legitimate government purpose, as in this case. Gov’t uses contractors to do research ALL THE TIME.

That research does not allow disclosure of underlying data to third parties, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns. It's privileged sensitive information. It's the same in nature as the phone numbers dialed by the president.

What disclosures?

Well... are you suggesting that the private investigator performed hacking to obtain this otherwise protected information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

the contract in place was to scan for nefarious activity and protect against it. there is zero proof of any information being shared or use by private investigators, law firms or political campaigns

Well, that's what Durham said happened in the court filing. If we don't trust Durham, that's a different argument. These allegations need to be proven, of course. Personally, I fail to see an alternative explanation as to why this private investigator was in possession of EOP DNS access records and provided it in a meeting with a government agency (CIA?).

They will never be proven, because they are utterly irrelevant to the charged conduct. They don't appear anywhere in the indictment and have nothing to do with the alleged false statement to Baker. Durham just slipped them into a filing regarding alleged conflicts of interest that Sussman had already waived. So he can unaccountably make wild accusations without ever having to present any evidence for them.

In any case, the allegations don't make sense. The EOP access and records all pertained to the time period when Obama was president. How would that indicate any kind of spying on Trump?

What do these words mean to you: "The Government's evidence at trial will establish..." Go read the filing again.

I also don't understand your logic in the bolded part. It's like saying that a fisherman wasn't fishing because his net also caught some shrimp.

Durham can plan to present all the evidence he wants, but the judge won't let him present any of this because it is irrelevant. Joffe could not have been spying on Trump using the EOP records because Trump was not in the WH at any point during period of those records. It's like saying a fisherman wasn't fishing because he stuck his net in a bathtub.

[Anonymous]

Who disclosed the information? Perhaps they had permission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL at the alternative media of Slate and CNN... reminds me of the South China Morning Post reporting on behalf of Dear Leader Xi.

Did you read the links? These are articles from 2016 and 2017.

This all happened, we saw it in real-time. Some have just (conveniently) forgotten.

No no no, no one saw this in real-time. We all heard a fabricated story as told by MSM.

The story at the time was that a bunch of white-hats saw this data, thought it was weird, became concerned, and shopped it to various experts and journalists. Eventually it was shopped to the FBI, who investigated for years before eventually shrugging.

Durham is saying that Sussman and buddies purposefully fed "derogatory" information to the FBI to ... waste government resources? Make Trump look bad? Something else? In reality, Sussman didn't receive fabricated data or misleading data and intentionally mislead the FBI about any of it. This data had been around for a while and a number of people had legitimate concerns, including eventually the FBI when they received it. No one could make sense of it. Not the white hats, not the FBI.

Where is the bad faith? Can you spot it?

No, the white hats did not see EOP DNS data. That information is not generally disclosed. This is why the news stories back then only mentioned Trump's private organizations. Sussman did not receive fabricated data, but he did provide misleading data through omission. He also intentionally lied to the FBI about his relationships. Allegedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL at the alternative media of Slate and CNN... reminds me of the South China Morning Post reporting on behalf of Dear Leader Xi.

Did you read the links? These are articles from 2016 and 2017.

This all happened, we saw it in real-time. Some have just (conveniently) forgotten.

No no no, no one saw this in real-time. We all heard a fabricated story as told by MSM.

The story at the time was that a bunch of white-hats saw this data, thought it was weird, became concerned, and shopped it to various experts and journalists. Eventually it was shopped to the FBI, who investigated for years before eventually shrugging.

Durham is saying that Sussman and buddies purposefully fed "derogatory" information to the FBI to ... waste government resources? Make Trump look bad? Something else? In reality, Sussman didn't receive fabricated data or misleading data and intentionally mislead the FBI about any of it. This data had been around for a while and a number of people had legitimate concerns, including eventually the FBI when they received it. No one could make sense of it. Not the white hats, not the FBI.

Where is the bad faith? Can you spot it?

No, the white hats did not see EOP DNS data. That information is not generally disclosed. This is why the news stories back then only mentioned Trump's private organizations. Sussman did not receive fabricated data, but he did provide misleading data through omission. He also intentionally lied to the FBI about his relationships. Allegedly.

All that Durham is officially charging is that Sussman omitted his client when talking to Baker. That's it.

This motion has a bunch of other stuff, as the original charging document did. It's all prejudicial and irrelevant. But the backstory, that Sussman provided the FBI with concerning information, Durham is trying to spin that as making Sussman looking sus when it actually shows that Sussman and the FBI had valid concerns and properly investigated them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DNS records are public, but the access of DNS records is not. Even though the traffic is not encrypted, there is a certain level of anonymity because that lookup traffic usually traverses only between the requestor and the name servers provided by the ISP. It is also highly likely that the EOP IT network is in an enclave of sorts, and that the DNS server provided by the tech company is within that enclave or has a VPN connection of some sort since it's likely that DNS is just one among a suite of services provided.

All this is to say that while the government certainly can subpoena and obtain DNS lookup information from ISPs since there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information volunteered to a third party, such information is nonetheless protected from disclosure to non-government entities, including private investigators, law firms, and political campaigns.

the contract in place was to scan for nefarious activity and protect against it. there is zero proof of any information being shared or use by private investigators, law firms or political campaigns

Well, that's what Durham said happened in the court filing. If we don't trust Durham, that's a different argument. These allegations need to be proven, of course. Personally, I fail to see an alternative explanation as to why this private investigator was in possession of EOP DNS access records and provided it in a meeting with a government agency (CIA?).

They will never be proven, because they are utterly irrelevant to the charged conduct. They don't appear anywhere in the indictment and have nothing to do with the alleged false statement to Baker. Durham just slipped them into a filing regarding alleged conflicts of interest that Sussman had already waived. So he can unaccountably make wild accusations without ever having to present any evidence for them.

In any case, the allegations don't make sense. The EOP access and records all pertained to the time period when Obama was president. How would that indicate any kind of spying on Trump?

What do these words mean to you: "The Government's evidence at trial will establish..." Go read the filing again.

I also don't understand your logic in the bolded part. It's like saying that a fisherman wasn't fishing because his net also caught some shrimp.

Durham can plan to present all the evidence he wants, but the judge won't let him present any of this because it is irrelevant. Joffe could not have been spying on Trump using the EOP records because Trump was not in the WH at any point during period of those records. It's like saying a fisherman wasn't fishing because he stuck his net in a bathtub.

This is false based on the filing.