Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why Biden all of sudden trusts Bibi so much.

Bibi is using him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what's next? what's happening with the ground invasion? is that indefinitely on hold? this completely unraveling. Israel bombed the heck out of Gaza (whether we agree or disagree that was the right tactic) and now what?

I assume Israel is trying to work something out to get the hostages. But I'm not sure what type of deal they'll be able to reach; even if they get the hostages they can't just ignore the reality that Hamas killed hundreds of their civilians. So maybe things will take a turn for the worse once attempts to get the hostages stall and Hamas starts livestreaming executions.

Isn't that part of why Biden was there? to help get the hostages back? and then that sort of fell apart when the Arab partners canceled. I just don't understand the strategy here on the part of the Israelis. And I am married to someone who basically thinks Israel can do no wrong so it's very one-sided. I'm Jewish, but have to say I am skeptical of their military tactics--not the reason for why they did what they did--they have a right to defend themselves but it's unclear where this is all headed. If this were the US, I'd expect we'd have a clear plan for seizing an area and getting in there to get our hostages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

One state with Jews gone, it sounds like?

Who has advocated for Jews to be “gone”? Please quote specific posts if you’re going to accuse posters of advocating for another Jewish genocide. That’s an incredibly inflammatory (and from what I can tell, false) accusation.

What I have advocated on this thread is for Israel to temper its war against Hamas in a way that it’s not indiscriminately killing, starving, and withholding lifesaving necessities from the two million civilians trapped in Gaza. They are not reasonable or acceptable collateral damage.

Ultimately I’m in favor of a two-state solution with reasonable governments in both Israel and Palestine, or (more unlikely given the historical context and animosity between the two groups) an integrated state in which all citizens are treated equally and have full rights.

How does an integrated state work? What happens if Palestinians get a majority in the Knesset and recognize a right to return including property rights for those disposed when they fled?

Israel is already an integrated state. Many Palestinians and Bedouins have lived peacefully in Israel for years . Many more have even fought in the IDF against their own Palestinians where their knowledge of Arabic and Islam is valuable when it comes to checkpoints and patting down women for example .

The logic refuting my suggestion is astounding : on one hand it’s going to lead to the Knesset being overpopulated with Palestinians , on the other hand it is an ethnic cleansing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

One state with Jews gone, it sounds like?

Who has advocated for Jews to be “gone”? Please quote specific posts if you’re going to accuse posters of advocating for another Jewish genocide. That’s an incredibly inflammatory (and from what I can tell, false) accusation.

What I have advocated on this thread is for Israel to temper its war against Hamas in a way that it’s not indiscriminately killing, starving, and withholding lifesaving necessities from the two million civilians trapped in Gaza. They are not reasonable or acceptable collateral damage.

Ultimately I’m in favor of a two-state solution with reasonable governments in both Israel and Palestine, or (more unlikely given the historical context and animosity between the two groups) an integrated state in which all citizens are treated equally and have full rights.

How does an integrated state work? What happens if Palestinians get a majority in the Knesset and recognize a right to return including property rights for those disposed when they fled?

Israel is already an integrated state. Many Palestinians and Bedouins have lived peacefully in Israel for years . Many more have even fought in the IDF against their own Palestinians where their knowledge of Arabic and Islam is valuable when it comes to checkpoints and patting down women for example .

The logic refuting my suggestion is astounding : on one hand it’s going to lead to the Knesset being overpopulated with Palestinians , on the other hand it is an ethnic cleansing.

Everyone there is doomed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

Two states with autonomy and control over their own areas by the Palestinians. Control on air, water, sea, natural resources. No settlements. No open air prisons controlled by another government. That's the only way FORWARD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe that the suffering of this many people is necessary for Israelis to live in comfort

When you dispossess millions, keeping them oppressed is the only way to live in comfort. I support Israel, but I'm also not naive enough to pretend that there is any end game for either side

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

Two states with autonomy and control over their own areas by the Palestinians. Control on air, water, sea, natural resources. No settlements. No open air prisons controlled by another government. That's the only way FORWARD.

I'm not anti-Israel but this is what I want too. It is the only forward. I think there are many Jewish, Israel-loving people out there who feel the same. We're not all right wingers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

Two states with autonomy and control over their own areas by the Palestinians. Control on air, water, sea, natural resources. No settlements. No open air prisons controlled by another government. That's the only way FORWARD.

I'm not anti-Israel but this is what I want too. It is the only forward. I think there are many Jewish, Israel-loving people out there who feel the same. We're not all right wingers

I'll caveat by saying that the only way to get there is if the Palestinians accept the existence of Israel. That has been a key barrier to reaching a peace deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

One state with Jews gone, it sounds like?

Who has advocated for Jews to be “gone”? Please quote specific posts if you’re going to accuse posters of advocating for another Jewish genocide. That’s an incredibly inflammatory (and from what I can tell, false) accusation.

What I have advocated on this thread is for Israel to temper its war against Hamas in a way that it’s not indiscriminately killing, starving, and withholding lifesaving necessities from the two million civilians trapped in Gaza. They are not reasonable or acceptable collateral damage.

Ultimately I’m in favor of a two-state solution with reasonable governments in both Israel and Palestine, or (more unlikely given the historical context and animosity between the two groups) an integrated state in which all citizens are treated equally and have full rights.

How does an integrated state work? What happens if Palestinians get a majority in the Knesset and recognize a right to return including property rights for those disposed when they fled?

Israel is already an integrated state. Many Palestinians and Bedouins have lived peacefully in Israel for years . Many more have even fought in the IDF against their own Palestinians where their knowledge of Arabic and Islam is valuable when it comes to checkpoints and patting down women for example .

The logic refuting my suggestion is astounding : on one hand it’s going to lead to the Knesset being overpopulated with Palestinians , on the other hand it is an ethnic cleansing.

Why do you assume you're talking to one person? The current state works because non-jews will never have control of the Knesset. If you have a one state solution, the demographics change. Do you expect a muslim majority to keep Israel as a Jewish state? Do you think voters in Gaza and the West Bank would just let bygones be bygones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

Two states with autonomy and control over their own areas by the Palestinians. Control on air, water, sea, natural resources. No settlements. No open air prisons controlled by another government. That's the only way FORWARD.

I'm not anti-Israel but this is what I want too. It is the only forward. I think there are many Jewish, Israel-loving people out there who feel the same. We're not all right wingers

I'll caveat by saying that the only way to get there is if the Palestinians accept the existence of Israel. That has been a key barrier to reaching a peace deal.

You can just as easily flip it and say the only way to get there is if Israel accepts the existence of Palestine. That has been a key barrier to reaching a peace deal. Both statements are equally true. Even the most generous Israeli offer never granted Palestine real independence, and that's not even addressing the borders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting:
Israel wants to depopulate Gaza, drive everyone out. If that is not true, then let them take refuge in one of Israel’s deserts



What is happening now in Gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refuge and migrate to Egypt, which should not be accepted," Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said.

He warned that were this to happen, the Egyptian people could "go out and protest in their millions".

Cairo has already warned that if Palestinians left their land, it could "liquidate" Palestinian hopes of statehood.

But it would also be very dangerous for the Egyptian government if it was seen as complicit in any such deal – igniting public anger in the Arab world.

Any influx of people would also deepen Egypt’s current economic crisis and raise security fears in its restive Sinai region.

Sisi suggested that as Gaza is in effect under Israeli control, Palestinians could instead be moved to Israel’s Negev desert during its offensive against Hamas "till the militants are dealt with"

You seriously think Israel should open the Negev up to Gazans?!

Do you realize what would happen if they did that?

Tell me please
What will happen if they leave everyone to suffer and die where they are

I can’t believe I have to spell this out.

Hamas fighters will leave in the crowd and begin their attacks again, just like on October 7th.

So they will loose their human shields and you will be able to track down every single one

Yes because Hamas fighters walk around with a sign around their neck saying “Hamas.”

Al Qaeda doesn’t either but we didn’t ban Muslims after 9/11. At least let Gazan women and children into Israel. This is how you create less Hamas for the next generation by treating the youth who you claim are victims of Hamas as human beings . Not traumatizing them with 1,000 lb. bombs exploding their loved ones brains and guts out into a million pieces into hating Israel indefinitely.

What has creating a wall done for Israelis? Hamas was still able to breach.

Pulling up walls and killing is not the solution. Imagine if we as Americans did that to every American Muslim after 9/11.

Bombing their homes to smithereens because they share the same faith as radical killers.

We would be facing a 9/11 every year and be less safe if we did that.

But maybe we are just a more gracious
and kinder nation.

A gracious and kind nation in our war in Afghanistan?! Are you kidding me?!

You’re so ignorant.

You also act as though there are zero children who fight for Hamas. You also act as though Hamas fighters would magically find zero way to convince women to take on the fight in the Negev.

I specified American Muslims.

If Israel is afraid of 7 year old Palestinian children, then they shouldn’t even be in the region at all.

Children under 12 if they are given proper humanitarian assistance in Israel you will find those women and kids wouldn’t even want to go back to Gaza. They will love it in Israel. They will be surprised to find out there are many Arabic speakers there and Muslims within Israel. Within a few years, those kids would start speaking Hebrew.

Maybe I am naive but youth integration often works to resettle new people and cultures.

You think Israel will let Palestinians from Gaza into Israel for refuge? You seriously don't understand why this isn't possbile? You do know that there are many Arab nations in the region that could take their people in-- Egypt, Syria, Lebananon, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Algeria, Morocco... All those nations can take in their bretheren. You notice that none of them want to do that? A tiny Jewish country ain't taking in people who want to murder them. If you can't understand that, I don't know what else to tell you.

This is actually a lie and sounds like Israeli bull$hit propaganda. Nearby Arab countries have upwards of 6 million Palestinian refugees and their descendants living in their countries. They have been taking them in since 1948. The problem is that once Palestinians leave, are forced out, are bombed out, are economically sanctioned and squeezed out, are physically removed out and *become* refugees in the first place, they are never allowed back by Israel. The largest class of permanent refugees of anyone, anywhere are Palestinians living in neighboring Arab countries -- Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, the Gulf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why Biden all of sudden trusts Bibi so much.

Biden only cares for the donations he needs for reelection. There is no way I am voting for him again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

One state with Jews gone, it sounds like?

Who has advocated for Jews to be “gone”? Please quote specific posts if you’re going to accuse posters of advocating for another Jewish genocide. That’s an incredibly inflammatory (and from what I can tell, false) accusation.

What I have advocated on this thread is for Israel to temper its war against Hamas in a way that it’s not indiscriminately killing, starving, and withholding lifesaving necessities from the two million civilians trapped in Gaza. They are not reasonable or acceptable collateral damage.

Ultimately I’m in favor of a two-state solution with reasonable governments in both Israel and Palestine, or (more unlikely given the historical context and animosity between the two groups) an integrated state in which all citizens are treated equally and have full rights.

How does an integrated state work? What happens if Palestinians get a majority in the Knesset and recognize a right to return including property rights for those disposed when they fled?

Israel is already an integrated state. Many Palestinians and Bedouins have lived peacefully in Israel for years . Many more have even fought in the IDF against their own Palestinians where their knowledge of Arabic and Islam is valuable when it comes to checkpoints and patting down women for example .

The logic refuting my suggestion is astounding : on one hand it’s going to lead to the Knesset being overpopulated with Palestinians , on the other hand it is an ethnic cleansing.

Why do you assume you're talking to one person? The current state works because non-jews will never have control of the Knesset. If you have a one state solution, the demographics change. Do you expect a muslim majority to keep Israel as a Jewish state? Do you think voters in Gaza and the West Bank would just let bygones be bygones?

Why are Jews entitled to a Jewish state? Does each religion have a have a homeland for its believers? Is there a Christian homeland just for Christians? What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why Biden all of sudden trusts Bibi so much.

Bibi is using him

Don't be ridiculous!
Biden needs the Jewish vote in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand at all what the anti-Israel posters want. One state? Two? Status quo except open borders with Israel? What?

One state with Jews gone, it sounds like?

Who has advocated for Jews to be “gone”? Please quote specific posts if you’re going to accuse posters of advocating for another Jewish genocide. That’s an incredibly inflammatory (and from what I can tell, false) accusation.

What I have advocated on this thread is for Israel to temper its war against Hamas in a way that it’s not indiscriminately killing, starving, and withholding lifesaving necessities from the two million civilians trapped in Gaza. They are not reasonable or acceptable collateral damage.

Ultimately I’m in favor of a two-state solution with reasonable governments in both Israel and Palestine, or (more unlikely given the historical context and animosity between the two groups) an integrated state in which all citizens are treated equally and have full rights.

How does an integrated state work? What happens if Palestinians get a majority in the Knesset and recognize a right to return including property rights for those disposed when they fled?

Israel is already an integrated state. Many Palestinians and Bedouins have lived peacefully in Israel for years . Many more have even fought in the IDF against their own Palestinians where their knowledge of Arabic and Islam is valuable when it comes to checkpoints and patting down women for example .

The logic refuting my suggestion is astounding : on one hand it’s going to lead to the Knesset being overpopulated with Palestinians , on the other hand it is an ethnic cleansing.

Why do you assume you're talking to one person? The current state works because non-jews will never have control of the Knesset. If you have a one state solution, the demographics change. Do you expect a muslim majority to keep Israel as a Jewish state? Do you think voters in Gaza and the West Bank would just let bygones be bygones?

Why are Jews entitled to a Jewish state? Does each religion have a have a homeland for its believers? Is there a Christian homeland just for Christians? What am I missing?

The reason for the founding of the state of Israel. It exists as a jewish homeland and if apartheid is necessary to keep it that way, then that's what the Israelis will do