Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn't even very good)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

I'm 100% with you. Referencing Graceland to DEFEND Swift's music is insane to me. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen phrases of music from that album that are so instantly recognizable and evocative.

And it was released nearly 40 years ago! Also don't discount the fact that Simon was doing something musically interesting with that album, incorporating African rhythms, instruments, and vocalizations with an American approach to songwriting and lyricism in a way no-one had ever heard before and that actually made the album controversial -- Simon has been accused of cultural appropriation many times for that album, though it's an open debate because Simon actually collaborated with and hired many African artists, including the Zulu choir Ladysmith Black Mumbazo (who toured and Simon and appeared with him on SNL in a pretty famous appearance).

I still think you can argue the ethics of what Simon did but it's harder to argue with the results. Whether you credit Simon alone for the brilliance of Graceland or you view it as a successful product of cross-polinization of musical styles and techniques, the truth is that Graceland is a work of genius that stands the test of time.

There is no equivalent Taylor Swift album and I think she is too careful and risk-averse as a business person to produce one. Simon went to Africa, because endlessly inspired by what he heard there, and made something controversial and new. George Harrison did something similar with his travels in Southeast Asia. Swift's musical moves tend to be carefully planned and attuned to the existing preferences of her current fan base, or to capture an additional corner of the market without offending her current fans. It's a recipe for mediocrity, not innovation. Which is why Folklore and evermore sound kind of like indie albums from lesser known bands, but not TOO much like them, and certainly don't do anything new or exciting musically. It was a good way for Swift to capture some casual fans of bands like the National and Vampire Weekend without pissing off her core fanbase, who are more middle-of-the-road pop fans.

Paul Simon is not a saint nor my personal hero (I think he was kind of a jerk in his relationships and probably self-centered and arrogant), but he made a truly amazing album of music. Taylor Swift could be the perfect human being, but I can't say the same about her musical achievements. She's okay, nothing more, and that is by design.

Good lord, calm down. I don’t really know much about Paul Simon or his music. I have heard an and enjoy a few of his songs. I’m not comparing them or saying swift is just as good or iconic or talented. I was just saying that that lyric reminds me of something Taylor Swift would write and pointing out that lyrics don’t have to be super complex to be impactful and beautiful.

I love "calm down" to a perfectly come and well-argued post.

Of course you don't know much about Paul Simon or his music. This is entirely the point. The people who claim Taylor Swift is great often don't have a lot of exposure to other music. I remember when she released her albums that sound kind of "indie-ish" a lot of the Swift fans I know were like "this is your kind of music!" But it's not. It's a weak imitation. I'm sorry. She's not an innovator.

I come back to the thread title: her music isn't very good. It's not. I wish it was! If someone as famous and popular as Taylor Swift was churning out album after album of truly great music, I'd be thrilled because I love music. But she's not. Like many prolific pop stars before her, she's cranking out mediocrity in great volume because it sells. Yay? This is why I can't celebrate her and bristle at people saying she's so talented. Hardworking? No question. Smart and canny about her business? Yes and yes. But talented? Middling at best.

I guess she's a good example of what a middling talent can accomplish with grit, determination, and a lot of financial backing.

You wrote paragraphs and used all caps and said I was insane in order to refute an argument that I didn't even make, so it did come off kind of unhinged. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

This is sort of a repeat post but the problem I have with Taylor’s lyrics is they all describe exactly what she is seeing. It is an insta-gram picture of an experience. Like the way a slightly more verbose Siri would describe a text image I was sent. Other artists can describe situations and feelings that make you think about different perspectives, or make you think about how it applies to you and your feelings, but Taylor’s imagery is so concrete it bores me.

Disclaimer: the words on this post only express the opinions of the poster, not her fans. Nor, in expressing this opinion am
I attempting to change her fans point of view. They also are not the opinions of DCUM or ots advertisers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

I'm 100% with you. Referencing Graceland to DEFEND Swift's music is insane to me. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen phrases of music from that album that are so instantly recognizable and evocative.

And it was released nearly 40 years ago! Also don't discount the fact that Simon was doing something musically interesting with that album, incorporating African rhythms, instruments, and vocalizations with an American approach to songwriting and lyricism in a way no-one had ever heard before and that actually made the album controversial -- Simon has been accused of cultural appropriation many times for that album, though it's an open debate because Simon actually collaborated with and hired many African artists, including the Zulu choir Ladysmith Black Mumbazo (who toured and Simon and appeared with him on SNL in a pretty famous appearance).

I still think you can argue the ethics of what Simon did but it's harder to argue with the results. Whether you credit Simon alone for the brilliance of Graceland or you view it as a successful product of cross-polinization of musical styles and techniques, the truth is that Graceland is a work of genius that stands the test of time.

There is no equivalent Taylor Swift album and I think she is too careful and risk-averse as a business person to produce one. Simon went to Africa, because endlessly inspired by what he heard there, and made something controversial and new. George Harrison did something similar with his travels in Southeast Asia. Swift's musical moves tend to be carefully planned and attuned to the existing preferences of her current fan base, or to capture an additional corner of the market without offending her current fans. It's a recipe for mediocrity, not innovation. Which is why Folklore and evermore sound kind of like indie albums from lesser known bands, but not TOO much like them, and certainly don't do anything new or exciting musically. It was a good way for Swift to capture some casual fans of bands like the National and Vampire Weekend without pissing off her core fanbase, who are more middle-of-the-road pop fans.

Paul Simon is not a saint nor my personal hero (I think he was kind of a jerk in his relationships and probably self-centered and arrogant), but he made a truly amazing album of music. Taylor Swift could be the perfect human being, but I can't say the same about her musical achievements. She's okay, nothing more, and that is by design.

Good lord, calm down. I don’t really know much about Paul Simon or his music. I have heard an and enjoy a few of his songs. I’m not comparing them or saying swift is just as good or iconic or talented. I was just saying that that lyric reminds me of something Taylor Swift would write and pointing out that lyrics don’t have to be super complex to be impactful and beautiful.

I love "calm down" to a perfectly come and well-argued post.

Of course you don't know much about Paul Simon or his music. This is entirely the point. The people who claim Taylor Swift is great often don't have a lot of exposure to other music. I remember when she released her albums that sound kind of "indie-ish" a lot of the Swift fans I know were like "this is your kind of music!" But it's not. It's a weak imitation. I'm sorry. She's not an innovator.

I come back to the thread title: her music isn't very good. It's not. I wish it was! If someone as famous and popular as Taylor Swift was churning out album after album of truly great music, I'd be thrilled because I love music. But she's not. Like many prolific pop stars before her, she's cranking out mediocrity in great volume because it sells. Yay? This is why I can't celebrate her and bristle at people saying she's so talented. Hardworking? No question. Smart and canny about her business? Yes and yes. But talented? Middling at best.

I guess she's a good example of what a middling talent can accomplish with grit, determination, and a lot of financial backing.

You wrote paragraphs and used all caps and said I was insane in order to refute an argument that I didn't even make, so it did come off kind of unhinged. Sorry.

PP again--oh, and I listen to a wide variety of music. As I said some of my favorite artists are Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. I don't feel I need to know the breadth and depth of all good artists to know and understand good music. I haven't listened much to Paul Simon because I listen to mostly to female artists, and I don't tend to be drawn to male singer-songwriters. You don't need to know the lore behind every well known artist and album to have good taste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

This is sort of a repeat post but the problem I have with Taylor’s lyrics is they all describe exactly what she is seeing. It is an insta-gram picture of an experience. Like the way a slightly more verbose Siri would describe a text image I was sent. Other artists can describe situations and feelings that make you think about different perspectives, or make you think about how it applies to you and your feelings, but Taylor’s imagery is so concrete it bores me.

Disclaimer: the words on this post only express the opinions of the poster, not her fans. Nor, in expressing this opinion am
I attempting to change her fans point of view. They also are not the opinions of DCUM or ots advertisers.

Okay, that’s cool? I don’t really understand how that is in conflict with my original premise you quoted, which is that Taylor isn’t the best lyricist but not the worst, and that you certainly don’t have to have Regina Spektor level lyrics to write music that is good art that resonates with people. I mentioned one single lyric of Paul Simon that I heard the other day and mused that it sounded like something Taylor would write, since someone else also brought up Paul Simon. You’re fighting your own demons at this point.

I wish I hadn’t waded in. I’ll leave y’all to your very intense responses to arguments that absolutely no one made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

I'm 100% with you. Referencing Graceland to DEFEND Swift's music is insane to me. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen phrases of music from that album that are so instantly recognizable and evocative.

And it was released nearly 40 years ago! Also don't discount the fact that Simon was doing something musically interesting with that album, incorporating African rhythms, instruments, and vocalizations with an American approach to songwriting and lyricism in a way no-one had ever heard before and that actually made the album controversial -- Simon has been accused of cultural appropriation many times for that album, though it's an open debate because Simon actually collaborated with and hired many African artists, including the Zulu choir Ladysmith Black Mumbazo (who toured and Simon and appeared with him on SNL in a pretty famous appearance).

I still think you can argue the ethics of what Simon did but it's harder to argue with the results. Whether you credit Simon alone for the brilliance of Graceland or you view it as a successful product of cross-polinization of musical styles and techniques, the truth is that Graceland is a work of genius that stands the test of time.

There is no equivalent Taylor Swift album and I think she is too careful and risk-averse as a business person to produce one. Simon went to Africa, because endlessly inspired by what he heard there, and made something controversial and new. George Harrison did something similar with his travels in Southeast Asia. Swift's musical moves tend to be carefully planned and attuned to the existing preferences of her current fan base, or to capture an additional corner of the market without offending her current fans. It's a recipe for mediocrity, not innovation. Which is why Folklore and evermore sound kind of like indie albums from lesser known bands, but not TOO much like them, and certainly don't do anything new or exciting musically. It was a good way for Swift to capture some casual fans of bands like the National and Vampire Weekend without pissing off her core fanbase, who are more middle-of-the-road pop fans.

Paul Simon is not a saint nor my personal hero (I think he was kind of a jerk in his relationships and probably self-centered and arrogant), but he made a truly amazing album of music. Taylor Swift could be the perfect human being, but I can't say the same about her musical achievements. She's okay, nothing more, and that is by design.

The irony is it was a Swift detractor that first made the Paul Simon comparison.

I believe they reference Simon to draw a negative comparison. To say "here is an example of truly great lyricis" and then to compare Swift negatively, as an example of mediocre or bad lyrics.

So, actually not ironic.

Perhaps Swift should write a song called "dictionary" and sell a Taylor Swift branded dictionary in her tour merchanise?

A non-Taylor Swift fan compares Taylor Swift to Paul Simon.

A Taylor Swift fan picks up that comparison to make a point.

The non Taylor fan screams, you’re comparing Paul Simon to Taylor Swift! The audacity!

It’s ironic because the comparison was first made by a non-fan. The point being if you hate Taylor Swift so much why would you compare her to one of the greatest artist of all time? Are you also comparing Bad Bunny to Paul Simon? I’m betting no because they’re not in the same league, while Taylor and Paul Simon clearly are and the non-Taylor Swift fans are the ones who made that point. Oh, the irony!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

NP, and I am a huge U2 fan. Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor music, but can you point to the lyrics that are very similar? I am very familiar With the song one but I can’t think of what lyrics of Taylor you’re referring to that sound like that?

Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor’s music, so not disagreeing with you just curious if you have time to refer me to the lyrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

I'm 100% with you. Referencing Graceland to DEFEND Swift's music is insane to me. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen phrases of music from that album that are so instantly recognizable and evocative.

And it was released nearly 40 years ago! Also don't discount the fact that Simon was doing something musically interesting with that album, incorporating African rhythms, instruments, and vocalizations with an American approach to songwriting and lyricism in a way no-one had ever heard before and that actually made the album controversial -- Simon has been accused of cultural appropriation many times for that album, though it's an open debate because Simon actually collaborated with and hired many African artists, including the Zulu choir Ladysmith Black Mumbazo (who toured and Simon and appeared with him on SNL in a pretty famous appearance).

I still think you can argue the ethics of what Simon did but it's harder to argue with the results. Whether you credit Simon alone for the brilliance of Graceland or you view it as a successful product of cross-polinization of musical styles and techniques, the truth is that Graceland is a work of genius that stands the test of time.

There is no equivalent Taylor Swift album and I think she is too careful and risk-averse as a business person to produce one. Simon went to Africa, because endlessly inspired by what he heard there, and made something controversial and new. George Harrison did something similar with his travels in Southeast Asia. Swift's musical moves tend to be carefully planned and attuned to the existing preferences of her current fan base, or to capture an additional corner of the market without offending her current fans. It's a recipe for mediocrity, not innovation. Which is why Folklore and evermore sound kind of like indie albums from lesser known bands, but not TOO much like them, and certainly don't do anything new or exciting musically. It was a good way for Swift to capture some casual fans of bands like the National and Vampire Weekend without pissing off her core fanbase, who are more middle-of-the-road pop fans.

Paul Simon is not a saint nor my personal hero (I think he was kind of a jerk in his relationships and probably self-centered and arrogant), but he made a truly amazing album of music. Taylor Swift could be the perfect human being, but I can't say the same about her musical achievements. She's okay, nothing more, and that is by design.

The irony is it was a Swift detractor that first made the Paul Simon comparison.

I believe they reference Simon to draw a negative comparison. To say "here is an example of truly great lyricis" and then to compare Swift negatively, as an example of mediocre or bad lyrics.

So, actually not ironic.

Perhaps Swift should write a song called "dictionary" and sell a Taylor Swift branded dictionary in her tour merchanise?

A non-Taylor Swift fan compares Taylor Swift to Paul Simon.

A Taylor Swift fan picks up that comparison to make a point.

The non Taylor fan screams, you’re comparing Paul Simon to Taylor Swift! The audacity!

It’s ironic because the comparison was first made by a non-fan. The point being if you hate Taylor Swift so much why would you compare her to one of the greatest artist of all time? Are you also comparing Bad Bunny to Paul Simon? I’m betting no because they’re not in the same league, while Taylor and Paul Simon clearly are and the non-Taylor Swift fans are the ones who made that point. Oh, the irony!

That is not what happened. Go back and reread. Or maybe you have some serious reading comprehension issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

I'm 100% with you. Referencing Graceland to DEFEND Swift's music is insane to me. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen phrases of music from that album that are so instantly recognizable and evocative.

And it was released nearly 40 years ago! Also don't discount the fact that Simon was doing something musically interesting with that album, incorporating African rhythms, instruments, and vocalizations with an American approach to songwriting and lyricism in a way no-one had ever heard before and that actually made the album controversial -- Simon has been accused of cultural appropriation many times for that album, though it's an open debate because Simon actually collaborated with and hired many African artists, including the Zulu choir Ladysmith Black Mumbazo (who toured and Simon and appeared with him on SNL in a pretty famous appearance).

I still think you can argue the ethics of what Simon did but it's harder to argue with the results. Whether you credit Simon alone for the brilliance of Graceland or you view it as a successful product of cross-polinization of musical styles and techniques, the truth is that Graceland is a work of genius that stands the test of time.

There is no equivalent Taylor Swift album and I think she is too careful and risk-averse as a business person to produce one. Simon went to Africa, because endlessly inspired by what he heard there, and made something controversial and new. George Harrison did something similar with his travels in Southeast Asia. Swift's musical moves tend to be carefully planned and attuned to the existing preferences of her current fan base, or to capture an additional corner of the market without offending her current fans. It's a recipe for mediocrity, not innovation. Which is why Folklore and evermore sound kind of like indie albums from lesser known bands, but not TOO much like them, and certainly don't do anything new or exciting musically. It was a good way for Swift to capture some casual fans of bands like the National and Vampire Weekend without pissing off her core fanbase, who are more middle-of-the-road pop fans.

Paul Simon is not a saint nor my personal hero (I think he was kind of a jerk in his relationships and probably self-centered and arrogant), but he made a truly amazing album of music. Taylor Swift could be the perfect human being, but I can't say the same about her musical achievements. She's okay, nothing more, and that is by design.

The irony is it was a Swift detractor that first made the Paul Simon comparison.

I believe they reference Simon to draw a negative comparison. To say "here is an example of truly great lyricis" and then to compare Swift negatively, as an example of mediocre or bad lyrics.

So, actually not ironic.

Perhaps Swift should write a song called "dictionary" and sell a Taylor Swift branded dictionary in her tour merchanise?

A non-Taylor Swift fan compares Taylor Swift to Paul Simon.

A Taylor Swift fan picks up that comparison to make a point.

The non Taylor fan screams, you’re comparing Paul Simon to Taylor Swift! The audacity!

It’s ironic because the comparison was first made by a non-fan. The point being if you hate Taylor Swift so much why would you compare her to one of the greatest artist of all time? Are you also comparing Bad Bunny to Paul Simon? I’m betting no because they’re not in the same league, while Taylor and Paul Simon clearly are and the non-Taylor Swift fans are the ones who made that point. Oh, the irony!

That is not what happened. Go back and reread. Or maybe you have some serious reading comprehension issues?

The comparison was made to Paul Simon, and then when somebody else picked it up to make another point they were criticized for comparing the two. I don’t think it’s a big reading comprehension problem as it’s just not that complicated of an issue. That’s what happened. If you make a comparison you can’t be surprised when other people pick it up to make another point.

Also, as the poster pointed out, they weren’t even trying to say that Taylor was like Paul Simon, but since the comparison had been made, they just were comparing some lyrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

NP, and I am a huge U2 fan. Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor music, but can you point to the lyrics that are very similar? I am very familiar With the song one but I can’t think of what lyrics of Taylor you’re referring to that sound like that?

Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor’s music, so not disagreeing with you just curious if you have time to refer me to the lyrics.

I’m not a huge connoisseur of Taylor’s music either. That’s why I asked people to give me examples of her good lyrics. This is from earlier in the thread, where I first noticed the similarities to U2.

From “All Too Well”

And maybe we got lost in translation
Maybe I asked for too much
But maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
Running scared, I was there
I remember it all too well
And you call me up again just to break me like a promise
So casually cruel in the name of being honest
I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'Cause I remember it all, all, all too well

It’s not plagiarism, but it’s so similar and derivative to the lyrics of “One,” only much worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

NP, and I am a huge U2 fan. Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor music, but can you point to the lyrics that are very similar? I am very familiar With the song one but I can’t think of what lyrics of Taylor you’re referring to that sound like that?

Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor’s music, so not disagreeing with you just curious if you have time to refer me to the lyrics.

I’m not a huge connoisseur of Taylor’s music either. That’s why I asked people to give me examples of her good lyrics. This is from earlier in the thread, where I first noticed the similarities to U2.

From “All Too Well”

And maybe we got lost in translation
Maybe I asked for too much
But maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
Running scared, I was there
I remember it all too well
And you call me up again just to break me like a promise
So casually cruel in the name of being honest
I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'Cause I remember it all, all, all too well

It’s not plagiarism, but it’s so similar and derivative to the lyrics of “One,” only much worse.

OK you totally lost me. I just looked up the lyrics to One even though I’m very familiar with this song and I just don’t see it. Both cover similar themes for sure… Though you could argue that like half the songs ever written are about lost love or relationship going wrong….. but I don’t see the similarities and lyrics. Look I’ll take your word for it that it’s derivative because I think it’s hard to come out with songs in the 2000s that aren’t based on stuff that came before it. Dave Grohl will be the first to say that “smells like teen spirit” is completely a rip off of 70s disco. And he was astounded that nobody has pointed that out before he did. So I don’t really have a problem with derivative music unless it’s blatant ripping off but I’m honestly just not seeing it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

NP, and I am a huge U2 fan. Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor music, but can you point to the lyrics that are very similar? I am very familiar With the song one but I can’t think of what lyrics of Taylor you’re referring to that sound like that?

Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor’s music, so not disagreeing with you just curious if you have time to refer me to the lyrics.

I’m not a huge connoisseur of Taylor’s music either. That’s why I asked people to give me examples of her good lyrics. This is from earlier in the thread, where I first noticed the similarities to U2.

From “All Too Well”

And maybe we got lost in translation
Maybe I asked for too much
But maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
Running scared, I was there
I remember it all too well
And you call me up again just to break me like a promise
So casually cruel in the name of being honest
I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'Cause I remember it all, all, all too well

It’s not plagiarism, but it’s so similar and derivative to the lyrics of “One,” only much worse.

How is it similar?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

You hate U2 and Taylor Swift?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The two extremes are weird. She’s not the best lyricist, not compared to some of my faves like Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, and Stevie Nicks. but she is very clever and writes easily understood yet pretty lyrics that conjure up specific feelings and imagery. Not everyone does that. Regina Spektor is incredible but sometimes you need an a clinical exegesis to understand what she’s talking about. It’s worthwhile to make beautiful and resonating art that isn’t challenging to consume.

It’s funny that Paul Simon was brought up because I was listening to Graceland the other day and thought this line reminded me of something Taylor Swift would write:

And I see losing love
Is like a window in your heart
Well, everybody sees you're blown apart
Everybody feels the wind blow

Dead simple, but beautiful, and the imagery is so evocative and relatable.

That verse came to me, too. Except, Taylor wouldn’t write that. She”d write something more like:

“You dropped my hand,
Like a shattered glass,
And now everyone knows how I feel inside,
Oh, oh, oh, I’m so exposed and broken,
I’m chilled to the core,
And the-eeey all know.”

I can’t understand how people don’t see the mediocrity of her lyrics. But then I suppose, I must be a gaslighting abuser to question her lyric writing abilities.

Hmm, I doubt you’ve listened to many Taylor Swift songs. She has plenty of purely metaphorical lines that aren’t at all what you describe.

I’ve literally looked at every single song PPs have said has great lines. And I strongly stand by my interpretation of her lyrics.

I keep asking posters to provide examples and all I get is crap like: ” darling, I’m a nightmare dressed up as a daydream.” Which I’ve already pointed out is cheesy play on “wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

Where are these metaphorical lyrics? Please do share!

But please do share

Okay, here’s a few examples that comes to mind immediately

While you were out building other worlds, where was I?
Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?
I made you my temple, my mural, my sky
Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life
Drawing hearts in the byline
Always taking up too much space or time

——

Spider-boy, king of thieves
Weave your little webs of opacity
My pennies made your crown
Trick me once, trick me twice
Don't you know that cash ain't the only price?
It's coming back around
And I keep my side of the street clean
You wouldn't know what I mean

—

It rains when you’re here and it rains when you’re gone

—

You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest

—

Long were the nights when my days once revolved around you
Counting my footsteps
Praying the floor won’t fall through, again

—

Fighting with a true love is boxing with no gloves, chemistry 'til it blows up, 'til there's no us

I don’t see what you see. To me all of those lyrics are derivative. I can immediately recall the other specific lyrics they remind me of. It’s not plagiarism per se, but they are reductive, nothing new or interesting to me, and I prefer the original much better. I would go line by line and describe what’s derivative about all of them, but the last time I did, I was accused of being a gaslighting abuser. But if you’re interested, I suggest you look into U2’s music. So many of Taylor’s lines are “inspired” directly by Bono.

I don't think anyone ever said--I certainly didn't--that Taylor Swift's lyrics are groundbreaking or unique? Just that they accomplish something (being easy to understand, sound pretty, and are evocative and relatable) as well as better than your made up "lyrics" that you ascribe to Taylor. I've heard like, three U2 songs in my life (not memorable, most just sounds like scatting to me) so I don't notice or care that she seems to be influenced by Bono.

I’m not huge U2 fan, either, but if you were familiar with their music, you would see that Taylor copies their lyrics. If you’d like to see an example of this go and check out “One.”

NP, and I am a huge U2 fan. Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor music, but can you point to the lyrics that are very similar? I am very familiar With the song one but I can’t think of what lyrics of Taylor you’re referring to that sound like that?

Maybe I’ve just not listened to enough of Taylor’s music, so not disagreeing with you just curious if you have time to refer me to the lyrics.

I’m not a huge connoisseur of Taylor’s music either. That’s why I asked people to give me examples of her good lyrics. This is from earlier in the thread, where I first noticed the similarities to U2.

From “All Too Well”

And maybe we got lost in translation
Maybe I asked for too much
But maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
Running scared, I was there
I remember it all too well
And you call me up again just to break me like a promise
So casually cruel in the name of being honest
I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'Cause I remember it all, all, all too well

It’s not plagiarism, but it’s so similar and derivative to the lyrics of “One,” only much worse.

Are the similarities in the room with us right now?

Seriously, what?

I’m sure you’re going to be like “if you have to ask, you’ll never know….it’s called good taste, sweaty. You don’t know music like I do” LOL