Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need representation of Asian-Americans in Sports also. Also, Hollywood needs to be representative of the % of ethnic population.

All public schools should also have the same demographics %age as the district. Bus the kids to other schools to make sure that every school has the same ratio of ethnic groups. Oh, also please seperate North Indians from South, West, NorthEast and East Indians. We are different in all ways. Also, seperate the Koreans, Japanes, Chinese, Hmong, Vietnamese, Thai students also.

I actually think that TJ has represented the global population of India and China in their school. So that is pretty good, eh?

Global population is not US population. US citizens pay taxes for TJ. TJ should not be 80% of one ethnicity.

Asian is not an ethnicity. The various ethnic groups have little in common with each other except that Americans think we are all the same. Your post illustrates that ignorance quite well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem? I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening. They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround. I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery. Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner. Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

Ask anyone at these underrepresented middle schools and they will tell you that there are plenty of TJ-capable Black and Hispanic students who are WELL-above a 3.5 GPA. To assume that these students don't exist is virulently racist.

"But then why are they not applying to TJ?" Just like white and Asian families communicate about their ways to get around admissions processes and create advantages for their kids, parents in these communities talk about how negative the experience is for their kids who do attend - how poorly they are treated by the students, how they are assumed to be products of an affirmative action process that doesn't exist with respect to TJ - that they decide not to apply.

"So what if they don't apply?" They will if they think they have a shot, and that there will be others like them once they get there.

Absolutely agree with you that assuming that those kids don't have 3.5+ GPAs is racist.

However, the other points are still valid. If you saw the projected numbers on the FCPS presentation, the number of Asians + whites will still be over 75%. Not that different from what it is today. What makes you think more of those kids will apply? I'm sure the numbers will go up. However, remember that this is a lottery/ What if the highest scoring Hispanic kid doesn't win the lottery? Why not just set aside a minimum threshold for kids with certain backgrounds based on race, economic status, etc. instead of dumbing down the whole process?

Why not just have open 'applications' and use the "holistic" approach to find the candidates that can handle the program, which would include accepting more than just 6 blacks+Hispanics into a class? Why they attempt that as a solution? Then the counselors at each of the Middle School can really tag the black+Hispanic students who have the capacity for success at a place like TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need representation of Asian-Americans in Sports also. Also, Hollywood needs to be representative of the % of ethnic population.

All public schools should also have the same demographics %age as the district. Bus the kids to other schools to make sure that every school has the same ratio of ethnic groups. Oh, also please seperate North Indians from South, West, NorthEast and East Indians. We are different in all ways. Also, seperate the Koreans, Japanes, Chinese, Hmong, Vietnamese, Thai students also.

I actually think that TJ has represented the global population of India and China in their school. So that is pretty good, eh?

Global population is not US population. US citizens pay taxes for TJ. TJ should not be 80% of one ethnicity.

OMG... so parents of TJ kids don’t pay taxes? No one stop you me kid from going there if your kid is goo enough no matter what race you are.

And my kids’ school is 70% Spanish. Do you have any problems with that. Or you only have problems with Asians??

[Anonymous]

The changes are being made to increase URM enrollment, the unproven cheating claims are not the reason. They are projecting a significant increase in enrollment of Economically Disadvantaged students using the lottery sytem.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BTGKX652F413/$file/TJHSST%20Admissions%20Merit%20Lottery%20Proposal.pdf

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

Understand that if the top tier school is 80% Asian it is discriminatory to AA and Hispanics. Clearly the Asians are being admitted so they are not being discriminated against.

We do not do "separate but equal" education in the United States of American. It is illegal in the US and has been since the 1950's and 1960's.

If PP wants an Asian only school you will probably need to go to your home country. Not admitting AA and Hispanics into a school is illegal in the US.

We used to have separate but equal schools in the 1950's in Virginia. That was called segregation. It is illegal in the US.

Do you realize that the school is not actually picking someone because they are asian? The majority of the people doing the selection are white? There is no restriction of blacks and hispanics to apply to the school and they will be considered equally?

Do you even know the law?

I agree. The whole "separate but equal schools" logic made no sense to the earlier comment by some poster or on in the one from this poster. On the previous one, someone noted that you could start a program that fostered black and Hispanics in elementary school and middle schools to develop the STEM skills and create a robust applicant pool for TJ. To which, some poster noted "separate but equal." What the heck does that even mean? There's really no data to support that tons of blacks + Hispanics would qualify under the 3.5 GPA or that enough of them would be interested in a STEM school like TJ. What would actually make a difference is to grow that pool of candidates. Right now, FCPS is planning on doing nothing but set a lottery to absolve themselves from actually doing the hard work of BUILDING the applicant pool of black+Hispanic candidates. This is always the FCPS answer--do the least amount of work and call it "fixed."

That's why you seek diversity and representation at TJ, a STEM school. To foster black and Hispanics in high school to further develop their STEM skills and create a robust applicant pool for college and beyond. What is actually going to make a difference is that this will grow the pool of candidates for STEM programs and careers after high school graduation.

See how that works?

You clearly know nothing about developing STEM students if you think you do that when they get to high school. And at the most competitive STEM high schools in the country. You've lost the war! You have just created a bunch of frustrated kids who will want nothing to do with STEM fields and will likely transfer back to their base school after a semester or two. (This would happen to any student, irrespective of race.) The difference here, the Asians start at a very young age to develop the STEM skills in their kids. Test prepping aside, the primarily recipe for success with the Asian race--they start YOUNG! And they foster a culture of deep rigor at home, and often times, that means lots of prepping--prepping for a test, prepping for a recital, whatever it is, they prep for it. If you want to BUILD a STEM student, get to them in elementary school. The love of science and math is not something one conjurs up in 9th grade. It is a process. If you don't start young, you will not be able to actually develop the STEM child. If you don't develop the STEM child, the entire "lottery" plan will be an exercise in futility--you will likely yet again produce 6 kids of black+Hispanic background for yet another class.

[Anonymous]

When I caught wind of the proposal to change the Tj admissions process, I came straight to DCUM for all the drama, and you did not disappoint.

People who have probably spent thousands of dollars prepping for TJ are losing their minds, and I love it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I caught wind of the proposal to change the Tj admissions process, I came straight to DCUM for all the drama, and you did not disappoint.

People who have probably spent thousands of dollars prepping for TJ are losing their minds, and I love it!

Don’t get so excited! Asians prep because it’s in their DNA! Go read Amy Chua. They’ll prep with or without TJ. End of story! They’ll just kill it at their base school. (And also, FCPS would have done zero to actually solve the equity issue. But dufuses like you get gleeful about a do-nothing plan.)

[Anonymous]

Honestly, my Asian son has a better chance of getting into TJ with the new system than the old system. He will make a 3.5 gpa, but probably won't get 98 or 99 percentile on tests. We also fall into a less competitive school system. I still want to keep the original merit process intact. I want to make sure that if he gets in, it is because he is smart enough to be there and not because of some lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is ridiculous on so many levels. Why doesn't Harvard or MIT or Princeton just do a lottery system?! It's nuts! This is where the Democratic party just loses a lot of folk it can't afford to lose during this election season. In the name of "equity," poor thought out ideas should not be rammed through.

Yeah, changing the TJ admissions standards is so much worse than poorly thought out ideas like injecting people with bleach and undermining getting the economy back on track by refusing to follow science and supporting universal mask usage and adequate testing. Let's also not forget the poorly thought out idea of trying to stoke anti-Asian sentiment by continually calling the coronavirus the China virus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

Real Hispanics or like rich white doctors' kids like Hilaria Baldwin who will just check the Hispanic box?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

How do you motivate 8th graders to accurately report back test questions? Are you suggesting recording and/or photo devices were used to carry this out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, my Asian son has a better chance of getting into TJ with the new system than the old system. He will make a 3.5 gpa, but probably won't get 98 or 99 percentile on tests. We also fall into a less competitive school system. I still want to keep the original merit process intact. I want to make sure that if he gets in, it is because he is smart enough to be there and not because of some lottery.

100% this. Board members are a bit naive. What are they going to do when it turns out that this new system designed to capture more URM just ends up giving better odds to white and Asian students who attend school in the less affluent areas?
Even if it dies out a few more URM in the pool with the idea of drawing from the five different areas (and this limiting admission from formerly powerhouse TJ feeders like Longfellow and Cooper), I’m not buying that selection will actually be conducted by lottery of those in the qualified pool. They may have that intention now, but they aren’t prepared for this method to fail to achieve equity of outcome in the process, so they will be forced to further rig it. I’m saying it here first: the “lottery” will be conducted behind closed doors so that they are certain that the correct demographics are selected. This seems to be the only way to achieve the racial parity they are seeking.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone stopped to ask what happens if there are still only like 12 black or Latinx kids admitted at the end of this revised process? Maybe they dont have any interest in going there and so they don’t apply and still won’t want to? My kid would be a likely candidate but literally has no interest in applying. Not saying he’d get in but he would def make the lottery cut as outlined. But he knows TJ is intense and he just doesn’t want that kind of stress and pressure. I wonder what the marketing campaign will be like to get students from under represented minorities to apply?

[Anonymous]

Kids wanting to go to STEM schools is a good thing. The instead of restricting the numbers of kids going to TJ they should open more STEM schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids wanting to go to STEM schools is a good thing. The instead of restricting the numbers of kids going to TJ they should open more STEM schools.

Yep open more STEM schools, and top tier humanities magnets too. Or you could limit TJ to only FCPS and free up more spaces to FCPS students.