Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem? I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening. They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround. I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery. Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner. Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem?

do you have any data showing that there won't be more URMs hitting this threshold as a portion of the lottery pool than are currently enrolled at TJ as a portion of the student body

I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening.

do you think FCPS would be upset if high achieving students moved into failing middle schools?

They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround.

they're saying the students who had access to the test cheated

I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery.

again, I'm sure Whitman would welcome your child and be happy to have them

Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner.

so you're saying they shouldn't bother

Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

nope, you're actually proposing separate but equal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

Figures. Some people are so obsessed with getting their child in. As if the test prep factories were not enough, they have to resort to cheating. Glad this is all being addressed so admissions can be more fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

Figures. Some people are so obsessed with getting their child in. As if the test prep factories were not enough, they have to resort to cheating. Glad this is all being addressed so admissions can be more fair.

+1

Cheating isn’t new there.

[Anonymous]

Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

Yes. Hundreds of kids cheated and bribed their way into Harvard, USC, Georgetown, Duke, UCLA etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the summary. Very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

None of what you described is cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem? I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening. They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround. I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery. Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner. Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

Ask anyone at these underrepresented middle schools and they will tell you that there are plenty of TJ-capable Black and Hispanic students who are WELL-above a 3.5 GPA. To assume that these students don't exist is virulently racist.

"But then why are they not applying to TJ?" Just like white and Asian families communicate about their ways to get around admissions processes and create advantages for their kids, parents in these communities talk about how negative the experience is for their kids who do attend - how poorly they are treated by the students, how they are assumed to be products of an affirmative action process that doesn't exist with respect to TJ - that they decide not to apply.

"So what if they don't apply?" They will if they think they have a shot, and that there will be others like them once they get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

Destroying TJ will definitely help to stop those so called cheaters. If you believe the company HAD A COPY before the test, someone from FCPS should be prosecuted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

None of what you described is cheating.

It is cheating when the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. It's not illegal, but it creates an intentional imbalance in the process because FCPS is disallowed from offering any prep material for it by the company that produces the exam.

[Anonymous]

PP - be honest and do not mislead people. None of this is happening for the benefit of Black and Hispanic students. This was very clear from the PPT shared at the school board meeting. The projected number of Black and Hispanic students under the new model is still in the single digits. So your theory of "others like them" is flawed. The group where the model showed the most drastic increase were whites. OK? Whites. That's the group driving the process. That's the group that feels slighted by the prevalence of Asians at TJ. Not Blacks and Hispanics.