Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

It's a foolish idea. In ten years, we'll be having the same discussion again because it would have proved to be unsuccessful at letting more URM into the school because as a previous poster wisely noted, you're not actually addressing the problem, you're applying a band aid. If you don't build the URM student through elementary school and middle school, you're setting them up for failure when they get to TJ. With the affluent white and Asians, those parents are doing the building at home (because let's be real, FCPS doesn't do it for them either) by sending them to enrichment and prep classes. So, until you actually INVEST in the URM child, this revised system will not get you the equity results you're hoping for ... but also, no one at FCPS or the VDOE really/truly cares about that. They just want to check a box saying "we fixed it". And, most people are not willing to really think about whether the solution will solve the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

Figures. Some people are so obsessed with getting their child in. As if the test prep factories were not enough, they have to resort to cheating. Glad this is all being addressed so admissions can be more fair.

+1

Cheating isn’t new there.

nope and will likely continue as before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

The first round of the process is where we lose the Black and Hispanic students.

I don’t think this is true. If you have a source, can you please cite it?

It is my understanding that the process, by legal requirement, is entirely race neutral. They can consider income and geographic diversity now, but unless the applicant really can sell themselves as unique in the essays, they don’t get any extra points s

Look at the presentation that FCPS delivered - it's linked in a million other places on DCUM. Class of 2024, and look at how the Black and Hispanic populations cratered in the semifinalist pool - where the only metric is the exam. That's what happens every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a foolish idea. In ten years, we'll be having the same discussion again because it would have proved to be unsuccessful at letting more URM into the school because as a previous poster wisely noted, you're not actually addressing the problem, you're applying a band aid. If you don't build the URM student through elementary school and middle school, you're setting them up for failure when they get to TJ. With the affluent white and Asians, those parents are doing the building at home (because let's be real, FCPS doesn't do it for them either) by sending them to enrichment and prep classes. So, until you actually INVEST in the URM child, this revised system will not get you the equity results you're hoping for ... but also, no one at FCPS or the VDOE really/truly cares about that. They just want to check a box saying "we fixed it". And, most people are not willing to really think about whether the solution will solve the problem.

URMs are almost as wealthy as the Asians at least in fairfax county. 22% of the Asian household earn 200K dollars or more in a year and 16-18% of African american household earn 200K or more. So the argument that asians are affulent and URMs are not is totally farce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a foolish idea. In ten years, we'll be having the same discussion again because it would have proved to be unsuccessful at letting more URM into the school because as a previous poster wisely noted, you're not actually addressing the problem, you're applying a band aid. If you don't build the URM student through elementary school and middle school, you're setting them up for failure when they get to TJ. With the affluent white and Asians, those parents are doing the building at home (because let's be real, FCPS doesn't do it for them either) by sending them to enrichment and prep classes. So, until you actually INVEST in the URM child, this revised system will not get you the equity results you're hoping for ... but also, no one at FCPS or the VDOE really/truly cares about that. They just want to check a box saying "we fixed it". And, most people are not willing to really think about whether the solution will solve the problem.

URMs are almost as wealthy as the Asians at least in fairfax county. 22% of the Asian household earn 200K dollars or more in a year and 16-18% of African american household earn 200K or more. So the argument that asians are affulent and URMs are not is totally farce.

That's exactly the point that a poster made. It's not so much the money. The time that Asians put into academic success starts at a young age and that rigor is in most Asian homes. More so than money, the time and effort (rigor) is why there is such a huge discrepancy in admissions rates for any elite [academic] program in the country, where Asians blow the rest away. I hate to say this and it may be an unpopular thing, but quite honestly, most other races don't have that drive and certainly don't take the time to breed that rigor at home with their kids. Most have a preferential "kids be kids" attitude, and pushing for academic success isn't something that comes naturally to non-Asian households.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

Figures. Some people are so obsessed with getting their child in. As if the test prep factories were not enough, they have to resort to cheating. Glad this is all being addressed so admissions can be more fair.

+1

Cheating isn’t new there.

nope and will likely continue as before.

White, AA and Hispanic families value other things rather than engineering degree at all costs. Many white, AA, and Hispanic families are active in their houses of worship and
kids are taught in the home that cheating is morally wrong. Many kids and their families of non Asian ethnicity don't want to be a part of an intense high school in which cheating is normalized.

[Anonymous]

No outrage amongst the Asians that cheating is wrong?

[Anonymous]

Understand that in many white, AA, and Hispanic homes other things are valued rather than prep at all cost. Many are involved in their houses of worship, league sports, helping out in the family business at a young age, working a job at age 15 etc. "Prepping" at all costs is not the norm for American kids nor has it ever been.

[Anonymous]

I think a smart AA and a smart Hispanic kid will stand out at an average high school and most likely has the same chances of being admitted to top tier colleges.

I'm a white girl who went to a 70% AA high school in Maryland. Only 10% of our graduating students went to college.

We had kids accepted to ivy league schools. Most went to the University of Pennsylvania as it was closer. Many of our graduates went to the local community college as that was all they could afford.

We had classes for the smart kids in high school. Smart kids graduating from an average state of Maryland high school still get accepted at top tier colleges.

My take is an AA, Hispanic or even white person can have great college opportunities graduating from an average Maryland high school. If you are smart and you come out of an average Maryland high school you have better odds of becoming class president etc. You are a big fish in the pond. You have a great high school experience that is not
the high stress environment of TJ with the rampant cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

Figures. Some people are so obsessed with getting their child in. As if the test prep factories were not enough, they have to resort to cheating. Glad this is all being addressed so admissions can be more fair.

+1

Cheating isn’t new there.

nope and will likely continue as before.

White, AA and Hispanic families value other things rather than engineering degree at all costs. Many white, AA, and Hispanic families are active in their houses of worship and
kids are taught in the home that cheating is morally wrong. Many kids and their families of non Asian ethnicity don't want to be a part of an intense high school in which cheating is normalized.

To each their own! Asians can also point to strong familial connections, well past adulthood; strong religious connections; a much stronger sense of community than anything found in white/AA communities; and an academic work ethic that doesn't come close to comparison. I know nothing about the "cheating scandal" so cannot really say which group of students cheated on the exam, but what I do know is that almost every Asian household upholds the Amy Chua thinking of breeding success at home. While others look at that sort of rigor with disgust and will come up with all kinds of reasons for not doing it, the rigor is in the DNA of most Asians. You don't have to do it, but then don't be surprised at why Asians have a stronghold in the admissions for elite programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No outrage amongst the Asians that cheating is wrong?

Who cheated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Understand that in many white, AA, and Hispanic homes other things are valued rather than prep at all cost. Many are involved in their houses of worship, league sports, helping out in the family business at a young age, working a job at age 15 etc. "Prepping" at all costs is not the norm for American kids nor has it ever been.

Whereas, for Asians, academic success is at the top of the list, followed by everything else. Again, different strokes for different folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a smart AA and a smart Hispanic kid will stand out at an average high school and most likely has the same chances of being admitted to top tier colleges.

I'm a white girl who went to a 70% AA high school in Maryland. Only 10% of our graduating students went to college.

We had kids accepted to ivy league schools. Most went to the University of Pennsylvania as it was closer. Many of our graduates went to the local community college as that was all they could afford.

We had classes for the smart kids in high school. Smart kids graduating from an average state of Maryland high school still get accepted at top tier colleges.

My take is an AA, Hispanic or even white person can have great college opportunities graduating from an average Maryland high school. If you are smart and you come out of an average Maryland high school you have better odds of becoming class president etc. You are a big fish in the pond. You have a great high school experience that is not
the high stress environment of TJ with the rampant cheating.

You say this because you value comfort, not growth. Yes, you'll be a big fish but you will not know your own size as your small pool will inflate your own importance in your eyes. When you get to a big pond, then you will understand your true size - when you are surrounded by many other fishes your own size and much larger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Understand that in many white, AA, and Hispanic homes other things are valued rather than prep at all cost. Many are involved in their houses of worship, league sports, helping out in the family business at a young age, working a job at age 15 etc. "Prepping" at all costs is not the norm for American kids nor has it ever been.

You must have never seen an Asian teenager behind a cash register in a family dry cleaning, restaurant or bodega with a math textbook in his/her lap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

Figures. Some people are so obsessed with getting their child in. As if the test prep factories were not enough, they have to resort to cheating. Glad this is all being addressed so admissions can be more fair.

+1

Cheating isn’t new there.

nope and will likely continue as before.

White, AA and Hispanic families value other things rather than engineering degree at all costs. Many white, AA, and Hispanic families are active in their houses of worship and
kids are taught in the home that cheating is morally wrong. Many kids and their families of non Asian ethnicity don't want to be a part of an intense high school in which cheating is normalized.

To each their own! Asians can also point to strong familial connections, well past adulthood; strong religious connections; a much stronger sense of community than anything found in white/AA communities; and an academic work ethic that doesn't come close to comparison. I know nothing about the "cheating scandal" so cannot really say which group of students cheated on the exam, but what I do know is that almost every Asian household upholds the Amy Chua thinking of breeding success at home. While others look at that sort of rigor with disgust and will come up with all kinds of reasons for not doing it, the rigor is in the DNA of most Asians. You don't have to do it, but then don't be surprised at why Asians have a stronghold in the admissions for elite programs.

Please know the Asian approach to parenting and academics is much-respected and admired in the Russian community. We are a curious mix of poor but educated and we come down on our children with all our might to excel in academics. We don't value a "carefree" childhood, and we understand that excellence is a product of aptitude+practice practice practice.