Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

Wow. How many kids were denied admission or waitlisted, that would have been admitted, if not for the cheaters having taken those spots? Couldn’t the County be sued?

Again, who was cheating? Are people who take SAT test prep "cheating"? This sounds like the same kind of activity.

The SAT is not secured, nor are almost any other standardized test you see. So no, it's not cheating to prep for it.

The Quant-Q is secured, so yes, it is cheating to use materials that are supposed to be secured to prepare for it.

So who got the "secured" materials? Unless the students who took the test are under an NDA, they are free to discuss the test with anyone.

They signed one at the beginning of the test. Now do you agree there was a problem?

Since no one appears to know exactly what happened, it's unclear what the problem is. There's certainly no evidence of cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quotas should be equal to population %. If a ethnic group is 6% of the population than align their representation to that number.

Should Grade also Be awarded Based on skin color? Why don't you look At the standardized test score and ask the school to award passing grade to top 50% of each group based on students’ skin color? By the way, there are white hispanics and black skin Asian students. Should they be divided from their groups?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quotas should be equal to population %. If a ethnic group is 6% of the population than align their representation to that number.

Should Grade also Be awarded Based on skin color? Why don't you look At the standardized test score and ask the school to award passing grade to top 50% of each group based on students’ skin color? By the way, there are white hispanics and black skin Asian students. Should they be divided from their groups?

No one with any authority would argue this kind of quota system. Why feed idiocy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

Wow. How many kids were denied admission or waitlisted, that would have been admitted, if not for the cheaters having taken those spots? Couldn’t the County be sued?

Again, who was cheating? Are people who take SAT test prep "cheating"? This sounds like the same kind of activity.

The SAT is not secured, nor are almost any other standardized test you see. So no, it's not cheating to prep for it.

The Quant-Q is secured, so yes, it is cheating to use materials that are supposed to be secured to prepare for it.

So who got the "secured" materials? Unless the students who took the test are under an NDA, they are free to discuss the test with anyone.

They signed one at the beginning of the test. Now do you agree there was a problem?

Since no one appears to know exactly what happened, it's unclear what the problem is. There's certainly no evidence of cheating.

[Anonymous]

Why not give admission based on IQ? Do an IQ test and give it to those with the highest IQ! It will all be nature and very little nurture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not give admission based on IQ? Do an IQ test and give it to those with the highest IQ! It will all be nature and very little nurture.

You can prep for an IQ test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not give admission based on IQ? Do an IQ test and give it to those with the highest IQ! It will all be nature and very little nurture.

Haha. As someone who used to live in NY, there is a whole industry around prepping for IQ tests. They are influenced by nurture ("prepping"). Stepping back from tests that can be gamed is a good move. Maybe they'll raise the GPA benchmark a bit. That's a better choice than replacing the rat race of prepping for one test with prepping for another test. I'm pretty sure this and the whole CogAT debacle from the current eleventh grade class has taught FCPS that there's no way to stop test cheaters from cheating.

[Anonymous]

Base it on the school record. Good students get in. Bad students don't. Base it on the entire schooling record. From K onward.

Also, make them write essays, do math questions and do IQ questions too in a very limited time.

Also, test the parents and see where their IQ and education level is.

[Anonymous]

Do a scan of their brains. The brightest student with most neurons and neural connections gets in.

Also, base it on EC activities and community service in addition to academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

Wow. How many kids were denied admission or waitlisted, that would have been admitted, if not for the cheaters having taken those spots? Couldn’t the County be sued?

Again, who was cheating? Are people who take SAT test prep "cheating"? This sounds like the same kind of activity.

The SAT is not secured, nor are almost any other standardized test you see. So no, it's not cheating to prep for it.

The Quant-Q is secured, so yes, it is cheating to use materials that are supposed to be secured to prepare for it.

So who got the "secured" materials? Unless the students who took the test are under an NDA, they are free to discuss the test with anyone.

They signed one at the beginning of the test. Now do you agree there was a problem?

Since no one appears to know exactly what happened, it's unclear what the problem is. There's certainly no evidence of cheating.

Ok, Mr. Eyeroll, who cheated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

This is freaking outrageous. And if it was just discovered this year, it's undoubtedly been going on for years.

Unreal.

Repeating the same lie without proof does not make it true. The reason this place has more students selected to TJ this year is because the number of students enrolled has gone up significantly.

[Anonymous]

Oh is the Currie rep posting again? Not credible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh is the Currie rep posting again? Not credible

I'm a different poster but I've asked for proof of these "vents" that students have posted, and it was crickets. I was finally told to go look for them myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem?

do you have any data showing that there won't be more URMs hitting this threshold as a portion of the lottery pool than are currently enrolled at TJ as a portion of the student body

I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening.

do you think FCPS would be upset if high achieving students moved into failing middle schools?

They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround.

they're saying the students who had access to the test cheated

I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery.

again, I'm sure Whitman would welcome your child and be happy to have them

Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner.

so you're saying they shouldn't bother

Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

nope, you're actually proposing separate but equal

PP, the student doesn't have to attend the impacted school, just reside in that school district. For instance, a kid going to Rachel carson can continue to do so and will be counted towards the base HS he WOULD HAVE gone to. The parents just have to pick the least performing MS, rent an apartment for 6-9 months and teh kid will be counted as part of that base MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem? I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening. They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround. I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery. Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner. Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

Ask anyone at these underrepresented middle schools and they will tell you that there are plenty of TJ-capable Black and Hispanic students who are WELL-above a 3.5 GPA. To assume that these students don't exist is virulently racist.

"But then why are they not applying to TJ?" Just like white and Asian families communicate about their ways to get around admissions processes and create advantages for their kids, parents in these communities talk about how negative the experience is for their kids who do attend - how poorly they are treated by the students, how they are assumed to be products of an affirmative action process that doesn't exist with respect to TJ - that they decide not to apply.

"So what if they don't apply?" They will if they think they have a shot, and that there will be others like them once they get there.

Absolutely agree with you that assuming that those kids don't have 3.5+ GPAs is racist.

However, the other points are still valid. If you saw the projected numbers on the FCPS presentation, the number of Asians + whites will still be over 75%. Not that different from what it is today. What makes you think more of those kids will apply? I'm sure the numbers will go up. However, remember that this is a lottery/ What if the highest scoring Hispanic kid doesn't win the lottery? Why not just set aside a minimum threshold for kids with certain backgrounds based on race, economic status, etc. instead of dumbing down the whole process?