Article - The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

You are delusional if you think very many people have parents who can/would do this. Count your blessings.

Yeah I realize that I'm very very lucky. A large number of boomers are extremely selfish.

The fact you think it's selfish for retirees to not want to get you "through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare" kind of says it all.

You aren't entitled to the free labor of others (mostly women). It's not selfish for others to want to enjoy their hard earned retirement. You didn't "move" grown, independent adults into your home. You invited your parents to live with you, and they agreed.

It's a wonderful blessing that you had the experience you did. It's not selfish for others not to want such an arrangement.

Individualistic would have been a better word for me to use, as opposed to selfish. Too judgy on my part. But I stand by my comment. People should think about keeping family nearby when planning a family. Around where I live, most people have family help of some kind. It's not unusual, at least out here in the suburbs of New England.

And hell yes, I would do the same for my grandchildren.

When it was 45 yo raising their 23 yo kids' kids, this was feasible perhaps. Its not feasible for most 68 year olds to take on a 2 and 4 year old full time. Making a comparison to what "used" to happen to the realities of ages today (and the 40 years of labor whether at home or in the workforce or both that it took to get to that age) is ridiculous. A 45 year old can with effort take care of kids on a day to day basis - or cook large meals every day - or clean houses - or whatever large scale labor you want for them. A 68 year old is damn tired and deserve some fun and a break before they're too old to enjoy it 10 years later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

100% my situation also. Its very common amongst my millenial friends.

This is so ridiculous! My boomer parents and their friends will do anything for us and their own kids. I had a miscarriage last spring and my mom was there within 24 hours and she had been on vacation in Europe. My Dad has two car seats in his car and is my kids chauffeur. Two years ago they took care of my 4 and 2 year old for 10 days and that just about broke them! But they did it. Their friends with grandchildren are all the same way and I know it because many of their kids are my friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

100% my situation also. Its very common amongst my millenial friends.

This is so ridiculous! My boomer parents and their friends will do anything for us and their own kids. I had a miscarriage last spring and my mom was there within 24 hours and she had been on vacation in Europe. My Dad has two car seats in his car and is my kids chauffeur. Two years ago they took care of my 4 and 2 year old for 10 days and that just about broke them! But they did it. Their friends with grandchildren are all the same way and I know it because many of their kids are my friends.

Lucky you. When my inlaws went to Europe they told us not to call them if one of their parents died (they each had an ill parent at the time) because “we couldn’t help anyway and it would ruin our trip.” Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

100% my situation also. Its very common amongst my millenial friends.

This is so ridiculous! My boomer parents and their friends will do anything for us and their own kids. I had a miscarriage last spring and my mom was there within 24 hours and she had been on vacation in Europe. My Dad has two car seats in his car and is my kids chauffeur. Two years ago they took care of my 4 and 2 year old for 10 days and that just about broke them! But they did it. Their friends with grandchildren are all the same way and I know it because many of their kids are my friends.

Lucky you. When my inlaws went to Europe they told us not to call them if one of their parents died (they each had an ill parent at the time) because “we couldn’t help anyway and it would ruin our trip.” Seriously.

!!!

[Anonymous]

Why wouldn't you just hire help??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure his statistics make sense and I don't think his conclusions drawn from them make sense.

The Scandinavian countries are the "happiest", also do not have large extended families living together, and are wealthy. Also, most Americans who moved here over the past centuries were loners, single, or maybe a married couple. They obviously didn't bring a large family with them.

In Scandinavian countries, society has taken place of the extended family. Young families are supported. Childcare and family leave is subsidized by the government, and work-life balance is valued and prioritized.

What's valued and prioritized here is the almighty dollar and working yourself to death. People are actually proud of working crazy hours. Many employers don't want to hire mothers or mothers to be. Men are considered emasculated and shamed if they want to take parental leave to bond with and care for children. Women are expected to work as if they don't have kids and parent as if they don't work. If you say you're having a hard time, you're told that you shouldn't have had kids in the first place if you can't afford (or don't want) to quit your job to care for them. If you do quit, that you're an affront to feminism and a burden on your husband. Of course the nuclear family struggles, given these conditions.

You nailed it

This is what Brooks, a conservative, doesn't want to see or acknowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

You are delusional if you think very many people have parents who can/would do this. Count your blessings.

Yeah I realize that I'm very very lucky. A large number of boomers are extremely selfish.

The fact you think it's selfish for retirees to not want to get you "through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare" kind of says it all.

You aren't entitled to the free labor of others (mostly women). It's not selfish for others to want to enjoy their hard earned retirement. You didn't "move" grown, independent adults into your home. You invited your parents to live with you, and they agreed.

It's a wonderful blessing that you had the experience you did. It's not selfish for others not to want such an arrangement.

Individualistic would have been a better word for me to use, as opposed to selfish. Too judgy on my part. But I stand by my comment. People should think about keeping family nearby when planning a family. Around where I live, most people have family help of some kind. It's not unusual, at least out here in the suburbs of New England.

And hell yes, I would do the same for my grandchildren.

When it was 45 yo raising their 23 yo kids' kids, this was feasible perhaps. Its not feasible for most 68 year olds to take on a 2 and 4 year old full time. Making a comparison to what "used" to happen to the realities of ages today (and the 40 years of labor whether at home or in the workforce or both that it took to get to that age) is ridiculous. A 45 year old can with effort take care of kids on a day to day basis - or cook large meals every day - or clean houses - or whatever large scale labor you want for them. A 68 year old is damn tired and deserve some fun and a break before they're too old to enjoy it 10 years later.

Well, my mom had me when she was 24 and I had my first at 27. I’m a millennial. Hopefully my daughter doesn’t wait until I’m 64 (and she’s 37) to begin having kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read any of these articles. But I have told my husband (seriously only half joking) that I'm down for it if he wants another wife. I want veto power, since I'm the first wife, but if he can find a woman who will help take care of our kids (and I love babies, so go ahead and have more) and clean the house and/or work so I can do these things, let's do it. He said, then wouldn't you want another husband? Hell no. One is more than enough work, thankyouverymuch. That is when negotiations stalled.

Lol. Have literally had this exact conversation with my husband. We both need a wife.

Same here. I would love a stay at home wife.

I call my nanny my stay at home wife. She's amazing.

And she just sits there and laughs with you and then goes home and talks about how you are a lazy entitled nut job. But one that employs her so you would never know.

Wow, you have a major chip on your shoulder or something. You know nothing about me, and yet you think I'm a lazy entitled nut job? That says so much more about you than it does about me. You may want to see someone for your seriously misplaced anger. I truly hope you are able to get some help so you can stop being such a miserable person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with much of the concepts raised by the article.

But find it surprising coming from David Brooks, who left his wife and children for his younger research assistant. How did that impact his nuclear family?

Did he really?

Yes he did. And then wrote this terrible column in the NYT called Cleaving and Leaving , or something like that. It must have been so hurtful to his ex wife.

[Anonymous]

I'm really surprised at people's reactions to this article because he is talking about EXTENDED family, not just grandparents - we are talking siblings, cousins, great aunts, etc. There are many parts of the world where many ages lives together or next to each other, and so its all about pitching in a little bit. Many hands make less work. Its not about grandparents helping their kids, its about lots of people helping each other with family life. That type of environment truly does make childrearing less stressful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised at people's reactions to this article because he is talking about EXTENDED family, not just grandparents - we are talking siblings, cousins, great aunts, etc. There are many parts of the world where many ages lives together or next to each other, and so its all about pitching in a little bit. Many hands make less work. Its not about grandparents helping their kids, its about lots of people helping each other with family life. That type of environment truly does make childrearing less stressful.

Not realistic in a country as large geographically as the US.

[Anonymous]

My parents did not become grandparents (via my sister) til they were in their mid-60s. It took 10 years off their lives. They joined a gym. They became young again being around a young child. They had just retired and spent 3 months a year living near my sister helping to take care of this much-loved baby/toddler/child/teen. They are much much better grandparents then they were parents. When i adopted my daughter as a single mom they jumped on board with me, too, even though by then they were 70 and now had 2 grandkids to help care for.

[Anonymous]

Strongly disagree. My parents and my husband dislike each other. Plus my mother is nuts. Thank goodness we moved a continent away!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

+ 1

Everyone who is bellyaching about this and itching to go back to the 50s or earlier needs to ask themselves: are YOU willing to provide full time childcare to your grand kids? Probably not.

I am an Ivy League graduate with a good career and I *absolutely* hope and expect to retire by 55 or 60 and provide childcare for my kids. I[b] am Asian,[/b] we believe in the pay it forward model. The early years are such a grind, especially for working parents. For me, having my parents around to supervise nannies, or provide dinner help or early morning help during a busy period at work, has been such a blessing. If we didn’t have that, DH and I would have struggled a lot to juggle everything ourselves, or else I would have quit and been unhappy about it.

So yeah, when my kids have kids, I will absolutely be there to help if they’ll let me. I have to do *something* during retirement and I can’t think of anything I’d like to do more than ease some of the burden for my kids while spending with sweet grandkids!

Err, what does that have to do with anything? Tiger mom much?

Every Latino family i know "pays it forward."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My co-worker has 4 kids and loves to brag that they have never paid a cent in childcare. She stayed home til the 2 oldest were in school, then had 2 more which the MIL took care of. She told me this is common in Latino families -- you have grandmas, great-grandmas, aunties, cousins who all pitch in. And yes, all female labor. She expects to do the same for her grandkids (still 10 years away, she hopes) when it is her turn.

so she’s going to quit her job to do childcare again?