Article - The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read any of these articles. But I have told my husband (seriously only half joking) that I'm down for it if he wants another wife. I want veto power, since I'm the first wife, but if he can find a woman who will help take care of our kids (and I love babies, so go ahead and have more) and clean the house and/or work so I can do these things, let's do it. He said, then wouldn't you want another husband? Hell no. One is more than enough work, thankyouverymuch. That is when negotiations stalled.

Lol. Have literally had this exact conversation with my husband. We both need a wife.

Same here. I would love a stay at home wife.

I call my nanny my stay at home wife. She's amazing.

And she just sits there and laughs with you and then goes home and talks about how you are a lazy entitled nut job. But one that employs her so you would never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

You are delusional if you think very many people have parents who can/would do this. Count your blessings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

You are delusional if you think very many people have parents who can/would do this. Count your blessings.

Yeah I realize that I'm very very lucky. A large number of boomers are extremely selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

100% my situation also. Its very common amongst my millenial friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

100% my situation also. Its very common amongst my millenial friends.

+1000 though im gen X. We’ve literally had maybe 10 days total of family childcare help in the past 12 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

You are delusional if you think very many people have parents who can/would do this. Count your blessings.

Yeah I realize that I'm very very lucky. A large number of boomers are extremely selfish.

The fact you think it's selfish for retirees to not want to get you "through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare" kind of says it all.

You aren't entitled to the free labor of others (mostly women). It's not selfish for others to want to enjoy their hard earned retirement. You didn't "move" grown, independent adults into your home. You invited your parents to live with you, and they agreed.

It's a wonderful blessing that you had the experience you did. It's not selfish for others not to want such an arrangement.

[Anonymous]

My co-worker has 4 kids and loves to brag that they have never paid a cent in childcare. She stayed home til the 2 oldest were in school, then had 2 more which the MIL took care of. She told me this is common in Latino families -- you have grandmas, great-grandmas, aunties, cousins who all pitch in. And yes, all female labor. She expects to do the same for her grandkids (still 10 years away, she hopes) when it is her turn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with much of the concepts raised by the article.

But find it surprising coming from David Brooks, who left his wife and children for his younger research assistant. How did that impact his nuclear family?

Did he really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

This is a misguided understanding of what extended family support should look like. My husband and I both work and are expecting our third. We live in a multi-unit house and recently moved my parents into one of the units. We'd never ask for full-time care long term but they are lifesavers for getting through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare.....which results in so much illness. Extended families can help with school drop off and pick up, random elementary days off, sick days and so much more. Granted my parents only have typical flaws, no serious issues thank God, but I can't imagine going back.

Not everyone can do that, but more families should seriously consider it. We live in a society where everything is individual and YOUR problem. As a PP said, the almighty dollar and work yourself to death and shut up about any parental responsibilities. Oh yeah and save enough so when you get laid off at 55 for being too expensive and still have ten years until Medicare eligibility you can buy health insurance! And don't forget to save enough for hundreds of thousands of dollars of college!

Given that none of this is likely to change in our political climate of incipient fascism (yeah I went there), this is a viable way forward. I'm open to building more units on my lot if those NIMBY restrictions ever change.

You are delusional if you think very many people have parents who can/would do this. Count your blessings.

Yeah I realize that I'm very very lucky. A large number of boomers are extremely selfish.

The fact you think it's selfish for retirees to not want to get you "through infancy without putting the baby in a daycare" kind of says it all.

You aren't entitled to the free labor of others (mostly women). It's not selfish for others to want to enjoy their hard earned retirement. You didn't "move" grown, independent adults into your home. You invited your parents to live with you, and they agreed.

It's a wonderful blessing that you had the experience you did. It's not selfish for others not to want such an arrangement.

Individualistic would have been a better word for me to use, as opposed to selfish. Too judgy on my part. But I stand by my comment. People should think about keeping family nearby when planning a family. Around where I live, most people have family help of some kind. It's not unusual, at least out here in the suburbs of New England.

And hell yes, I would do the same for my grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

100% my situation also. Its very common amongst my millenial friends.

I am curious. Did their parents help raise you as kids? My grandparents didn’t. My mom and dad also did it on their own and well. Sometimes they dropped us off with neighbors or an aunt in an emergency. But for the most part, they did and then my older siblings did. Lots of latchkey kids too. Many boomers see their own kids, now adults obsessed with material things, expensive sports and activities for their kids, vacations, houses 3 sizes bigger than necessary, a more expensive area to live in, car leases instead of owning used cars. I mean our generation has been terrible with money. So why should grandparents be FT nannies? That is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I know a woman who relied very, very heavily on her parents for childcare and financial support, like, she lived in their house for her first two and in an adjacent apartment during baby #3. And yes, she was both married and employed, just very, very needy.

Her parents recently moved 12 hours away and I can’t help but to get away from her. Some parents take advantage of grandparents....

I hope those people have a lovely retirement away from their crazy dependent daughter. They deserve a break!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The boomers have no interest in helping with their grandchildren. They are too busy living their best life.

All my millennial friends with small kids have perfectly healthy boomer parents who are totally uninterested in helping with grandkids.

I wish every day that DH or I had helpful parents. We’ve never had even an hour of childcare that we didn’t pay for. Instead we’re anticipating our parents someday relying on us for financial support.

My boomer immigrant mother was both divorced and retired and more than happy to stay with us and take care of her kids (you can't expect someone whose job is to take care of your kids to pay for their own housing in DC, can you?).

There's a catch, there's always a catch, and that catch was that my mother expected our lives to revolve around what she wanted because she was making SUCH a sacrifice taking care of our children. She was terrible to DH, and suffocating for me to have around. It was terrible and fortunately it's over and I think irreparable harm was done to our relationship.

[Anonymous]

My mother grew up in a very idyllic-sounding situation in another country. My grandfather was a physician with a clinic on the first floor of their home, which was huge. My grandmother stayed at home. There was a constant stream of friends, relatives, and hired help around my grandparents' 8 kids.

Except one of the maids molested my uncle, and my mother's obvious mental illness was largely ignored in all the hullabaloo. There was 0 privacy, a lot of the children were basically raising themselves, and relatives were intimately involved in literally every aspect of everyone's lives.

It's so easy to idealize something we are no longer familiar with, but I don't look at my mother's upbringing as something to idealize. There was a lot falling through the cracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like this only works if older women are expected to take on more free labor and women have babies younger so their moms can care for them. No thank you. Yes life would be great with free childcare, cooking, and cleaning but I would never want my mom burdened with that in the joyous years of her retirement where for the first time ever she can prioritize her own needs and desired. And I’d also never want my still working mil to give up her fulfilling career to wipe bottoms. Why are the older women whose expense this model comes at ignored or just assumed to be so #grateful to still have to spend their time doing domestic labor

+ 1

Everyone who is bellyaching about this and itching to go back to the 50s or earlier needs to ask themselves: are YOU willing to provide full time childcare to your grand kids? Probably not.

I am an Ivy League graduate with a good career and I *absolutely* hope and expect to retire by 55 or 60 and provide childcare for my kids. I am Asian, we believe in the pay it forward model. The early years are such a grind, especially for working parents. For me, having my parents around to supervise nannies, or provide dinner help or early morning help during a busy period at work, has been such a blessing. If we didn’t have that, DH and I would have struggled a lot to juggle everything ourselves, or else I would have quit and been unhappy about it.

So yeah, when my kids have kids, I will absolutely be there to help if they’ll let me. I have to do *something* during retirement and I can’t think of anything I’d like to do more than ease some of the burden for my kids while spending with sweet grandkids!