What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP didn’t say that SAT scores in general are highly correlated with IQ. SAT scores of middle schoolers at the very high end of the score range are correlated with IQ. Kids who have college level skills at age 12 are probably gifted[/quote]



Well sure. But lots of gifted kids probably haven't had the opportunity to learn the advanced math necessary to do well on the SAT by the time they are in 7th grade. And I was in the gifted program in middle school and didn't take the SAT. I don't remember it even being discussed. I'm sure there are schools that offer it to their students, but it is certainly universally given to gifted middle schoolers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP didn’t say that SAT scores in general are highly correlated with IQ. SAT scores of middle schoolers at the very high end of the score range are correlated with IQ. Kids who have college level skills at age 12 are probably gifted[/quote]



Well sure. But lots of gifted kids probably haven't had the opportunity to learn the advanced math necessary to do well on the SAT by the time they are in 7th grade. And I was in the gifted program in middle school and didn't take the SAT. I don't remember it even being discussed. I'm sure there are schools that offer it to their students, but it is certainly universally given to gifted middle schoolers.

It's not from the schools--it's from a national non-profit program. I actually don't know how they know kids got a >99% score on a standardized test but you get an invitation to take the SAT to qualify for services. So not all kids in gifted programs would be eligible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP didn’t say that SAT scores in general are highly correlated with IQ. SAT scores of middle schoolers at the very high end of the score range are correlated with IQ. Kids who have college level skills at age 12 are probably gifted[

Well sure. But lots of gifted kids probably haven't had the opportunity to learn the advanced math necessary to do well on the SAT by the time they are in 7th grade. And I was in the gifted program in middle school and didn't take the SAT. I don't remember it even being discussed. I'm sure there are schools that offer it to their students, but it is certainly universally given to gifted middle schoolers.

This is how you're missing the point. I took the SAT in middle school 30 years ago while taking Algebra. I still scored over a 710 math. Other kids from my school and in my math class scored much lower in math. Gifted kids are able to figure out a lot of things on the fly that they've never been taught. The same is true for SAT verbal. 7th graders who have the reading comprehension and vocabulary of a college bound high school senior will do well. Those kids are gifted.

[Anonymous]

The ACT and SAT were brought up in the context of Davidson Young Scholars and a few talent searches. The point of DYS and some of the talent search programs is to identify kids who are so far beyond their peers that their needs can't be met in public school without some significant advocacy. They don't require a strict 145 IQ to get in, nor are they suggesting that high ACT or SAT scores imply a 145+ IQ. They're just using different avenues to identify kids who are well beyond the norm.

Kids who take the SAT or ACT in middle school and score above the 95th percentile of college bound seniors would fit this category. Kids who score a 160 NNAT would not. The NNAT is too narrow of a test with too low of a ceiling and too much of an over-representation of high scores to draw conclusions about the educational needs for that child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ve got all the data right in front of you. She’s bright but no genius.

Disagree. OP doesn't have much data in front of her, since neither the CogAT nor NNAT are strongly correlated to IQ and neither test is very comprehensive. It's possible that OP's DD is a genius who is somewhat underachieving and coasting in classes too easy for her. A real IQ test would be the best way to determine just how bright OP's DD is.

I disagree with you. Op has loads of data. She’s taken tests and she’s been in school for what, 10 years now? Op, herself, says this kid is bright but not remarkable. Has she taken the SAT? Surely she has. A genius would score above a 1400 in 7th grade at the very least. Getting a high IQ now isn’t going to make her a genius overnight.

No she hasn’t taken the SAT. She is in 9th grade. Why would you think she has taken the SAT already?

Because that’s what gifted kids do.

I took it in maybe 5th or 6th. The schools were looking for the geniuses among the regular gifted kids. The one-in-a- million brains.
What the heck do you mean “that’s what gifted kids do?” What school gives kids the SAT before high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP didn’t say that SAT scores in general are highly correlated with IQ. SAT scores of middle schoolers at the very high end of the score range are correlated with IQ. Kids who have college level skills at age 12 are probably gifted[/quote]



Well sure. But lots of gifted kids probably haven't had the opportunity to learn the advanced math necessary to do well on the SAT by the time they are in 7th grade. And I was in the gifted program in middle school and didn't take the SAT. I don't remember it even being discussed. I'm sure there are schools that offer it to their students, but it is certainly universally given to gifted middle schoolers.

It's not from the schools--it's from a national non-profit program. I actually don't know how they know kids got a >99% score on a standardized test but you get an invitation to take the SAT to qualify for services. So not all kids in gifted programs would be eligible.

My daughter got an invitation to apply for a program that required us to pay for the SAT so that she could apply, however since the program was ridiculously expensive, we didn't bother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP didn’t say that SAT scores in general are highly correlated with IQ. SAT scores of middle schoolers at the very high end of the score range are correlated with IQ. Kids who have college level skills at age 12 are probably gifted[/quote]



Well sure. But lots of gifted kids probably haven't had the opportunity to learn the advanced math necessary to do well on the SAT by the time they are in 7th grade. And I was in the gifted program in middle school and didn't take the SAT. I don't remember it even being discussed. I'm sure there are schools that offer it to their students, but it is certainly universally given to gifted middle schoolers.

It's not from the schools--it's from a national non-profit program. I actually don't know how they know kids got a >99% score on a standardized test but you get an invitation to take the SAT to qualify for services. So not all kids in gifted programs would be eligible.

John Hopkins and Duke are by NO MEANS non-profit programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ve got all the data right in front of you. She’s bright but no genius.

Disagree. OP doesn't have much data in front of her, since neither the CogAT nor NNAT are strongly correlated to IQ and neither test is very comprehensive. It's possible that OP's DD is a genius who is somewhat underachieving and coasting in classes too easy for her. A real IQ test would be the best way to determine just how bright OP's DD is.

I disagree with you. Op has loads of data. She’s taken tests and she’s been in school for what, 10 years now? Op, herself, says this kid is bright but not remarkable. Has she taken the SAT? Surely she has. A genius would score above a 1400 in 7th grade at the very least. Getting a high IQ now isn’t going to make her a genius overnight.

No she hasn’t taken the SAT. She is in 9th grade. Why would you think she has taken the SAT already?

Because that’s what gifted kids do.

I took it in maybe 5th or 6th. The schools were looking for the geniuses among the regular gifted kids. The one-in-a- million brains.
What the heck do you mean “that’s what gifted kids do?” What school gives kids the SAT before high school?

Well then how do they know which kids to give the SAT to in 7th grade, because most kids are initially tested years before. Are they simply choosing the kids that scored in the 99th percentile in 2-3rd grade during the initial gifted screening? That would be ridiculous because scores at that age are seen as less reliable as opposed to scores taken at a later age. I don't think many gifted programs are giving kids a second round of Cogat and Nalieri tests in middle school.

[Anonymous]

I think most of the common core states have annual testing. They’re either using MAP scores or year end test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ACT and SAT were brought up in the context of Davidson Young Scholars and a few talent searches. The point of DYS and some of the talent search programs is to identify kids who are so far beyond their peers that their needs can't be met in public school without some significant advocacy. They don't require a strict 145 IQ to get in, nor are they suggesting that high ACT or SAT scores imply a 145+ IQ. They're just using different avenues to identify kids who are well beyond the norm.

Kids who take the SAT or ACT in middle school and score above the 95th percentile of college bound seniors would fit this category. Kids who score a 160 NNAT would not. The NNAT is too narrow of a test with too low of a ceiling and too much of an over-representation of high scores to draw conclusions about the educational needs for that child.

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the common core states have annual testing. They’re either using MAP scores or year end test scores.

I doubt that Common Core states are giving kids annual testing on the Cogat and Naglieri. And Virginia isn't a Common Core state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ve got all the data right in front of you. She’s bright but no genius.

Disagree. OP doesn't have much data in front of her, since neither the CogAT nor NNAT are strongly correlated to IQ and neither test is very comprehensive. It's possible that OP's DD is a genius who is somewhat underachieving and coasting in classes too easy for her. A real IQ test would be the best way to determine just how bright OP's DD is.

I disagree with you. Op has loads of data. She’s taken tests and she’s been in school for what, 10 years now? Op, herself, says this kid is bright but not remarkable. Has she taken the SAT? Surely she has. A genius would score above a 1400 in 7th grade at the very least. Getting a high IQ now isn’t going to make her a genius overnight.

No she hasn’t taken the SAT. She is in 9th grade. Why would you think she has taken the SAT already?

Because that’s what gifted kids do.

I took it in maybe 5th or 6th. The schools were looking for the geniuses among the regular gifted kids. The one-in-a- million brains.
What the heck do you mean “that’s what gifted kids do?” What school gives kids the SAT before high school?

Well then how do they know which kids to give the SAT to in 7th grade, because most kids are initially tested years before. Are they simply choosing the kids that scored in the 99th percentile in 2-3rd grade during the initial gifted screening? That would be ridiculous because scores at that age are seen as less reliable as opposed to scores taken at a later age. I don't think many gifted programs are giving kids a second round of Cogat and Nalieri tests in middle school.

The point is this: by 9th grade kids have plenty of opportunity to show genius. I don’t think OP’s kid is lacking for opportunity. She’s in a gifted program for crying out loud. That her own parent doesn’t see her as remarkable or anything more than bright is more telling than one weak, non-verbal screener.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ACT and SAT were brought up in the context of Davidson Young Scholars and a few talent searches. The point of DYS and some of the talent search programs is to identify kids who are so far beyond their peers that their needs can't be met in public school without some significant advocacy. They don't require a strict 145 IQ to get in, nor are they suggesting that high ACT or SAT scores imply a 145+ IQ. They're just using different avenues to identify kids who are well beyond the norm.

Kids who take the SAT or ACT in middle school and score above the 95th percentile of college bound seniors would fit this category. Kids who score a 160 NNAT would not. The NNAT is too narrow of a test with too low of a ceiling and too much of an over-representation of high scores to draw conclusions about the educational needs for that child.

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

The NNAT measure non verbal reasoning which is the least important domain in school. The SAT has nothing to do with nonverbal reasoning. The middle school kids who do well on the SAT are naturally gifted in language and have taken math through Algebra II either in school because they’ve been recognized as needing acceleration or on their own.

A 160 on the NNAT only tells you a kid did well on those type of puzzles. Which is amazing by itself. Just not predictive of anything more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ve got all the data right in front of you. She’s bright but no genius.

Disagree. OP doesn't have much data in front of her, since neither the CogAT nor NNAT are strongly correlated to IQ and neither test is very comprehensive. It's possible that OP's DD is a genius who is somewhat underachieving and coasting in classes too easy for her. A real IQ test would be the best way to determine just how bright OP's DD is.

I disagree with you. Op has loads of data. She’s taken tests and she’s been in school for what, 10 years now? Op, herself, says this kid is bright but not remarkable. Has she taken the SAT? Surely she has. A genius would score above a 1400 in 7th grade at the very least. Getting a high IQ now isn’t going to make her a genius overnight.

No she hasn’t taken the SAT. She is in 9th grade. Why would you think she has taken the SAT already?

Because that’s what gifted kids do.

I took it in maybe 5th or 6th. The schools were looking for the geniuses among the regular gifted kids. The one-in-a- million brains.
What the heck do you mean “that’s what gifted kids do?” What school gives kids the SAT before high school?

Well then how do they know which kids to give the SAT to in 7th grade, because most kids are initially tested years before. Are they simply choosing the kids that scored in the 99th percentile in 2-3rd grade during the initial gifted screening? That would be ridiculous because scores at that age are seen as less reliable as opposed to scores taken at a later age. I don't think many gifted programs are giving kids a second round of Cogat and Nalieri tests in middle school.

The point is this: by 9th grade kids have plenty of opportunity to show genius. I don’t think OP’s kid is lacking for opportunity. She’s in a gifted program for crying out loud. That her own parent doesn’t see her as remarkable or anything more than bright is more telling than one weak, non-verbal screener.

Other than making all A's, being in advanced classes, and scoring extremely high on the standardized tests given prior to 9th grade, how many other ways are there really to "show genius" prior to 9th grade? Especially if the kid is not from an UMC family that might have more opportunities to develop it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ve got all the data right in front of you. She’s bright but no genius.

Disagree. OP doesn't have much data in front of her, since neither the CogAT nor NNAT are strongly correlated to IQ and neither test is very comprehensive. It's possible that OP's DD is a genius who is somewhat underachieving and coasting in classes too easy for her. A real IQ test would be the best way to determine just how bright OP's DD is.

I disagree with you. Op has loads of data. She’s taken tests and she’s been in school for what, 10 years now? Op, herself, says this kid is bright but not remarkable. Has she taken the SAT? Surely she has. A genius would score above a 1400 in 7th grade at the very least. Getting a high IQ now isn’t going to make her a genius overnight.

No she hasn’t taken the SAT. She is in 9th grade. Why would you think she has taken the SAT already?

Because that’s what gifted kids do.

I took it in maybe 5th or 6th. The schools were looking for the geniuses among the regular gifted kids. The one-in-a- million brains.
What the heck do you mean “that’s what gifted kids do?” What school gives kids the SAT before high school?

Well then how do they know which kids to give the SAT to in 7th grade, because most kids are initially tested years before. Are they simply choosing the kids that scored in the 99th percentile in 2-3rd grade during the initial gifted screening? That would be ridiculous because scores at that age are seen as less reliable as opposed to scores taken at a later age. I don't think many gifted programs are giving kids a second round of Cogat and Nalieri tests in middle school.

The point is this: by 9th grade kids have plenty of opportunity to show genius. I don’t think OP’s kid is lacking for opportunity. She’s in a gifted program for crying out loud. That her own parent doesn’t see her as remarkable or anything more than bright is more telling than one weak, non-verbal screener.

Other than making all A's, being in advanced classes, and scoring extremely high on the standardized tests given prior to 9th grade, how many other ways are there really to "show genius" prior to 9th grade? Especially if the kid is not from an UMC family that might have more opportunities to develop it?

We are talking about genius, that 1 in a million kid. Like the kid who studies calculus for fun in 3rd grade. Or the kid who can read at the college level and comprehend it when her peers are reading magic treehouse. These are kids who get noticed in UMC and MC families.