What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?

[Anonymous]

We aren't talking about that 1 in a million kid. DYS specifically is looking for that 1 in 1000 kid. Some of the talent searches are looking for 1 in 10,000 kids. None of those kids fully have their needs met in regular public school, and it's possible that OP's DD would be one of those kids.

For math gifted kids, there are many ways to "show genius" prior to 9th grade. They are the kids who qualify for AIME in middle school, or who win the local Mathcounts competition.

[Anonymous]

The op asked if her kid was a genius.

Most DYS kids aren’t geniuses. They are kids with IQs in the profoundly gifted range, or 99.9th percentile, 1 in a thousand. They present differently in an academic environment because they are so, so much more than one IQ score.

Genius is an adjective used to describe people, not IQ scores, certainly not an NNAT score.

The op asked if her daughter was a genius. She would know better than us. But everything she’s said here indicates she is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The op asked if her kid was a genius.

Most DYS kids aren’t geniuses. They are kids with IQs in the profoundly gifted range, or 99.9th percentile, 1 in a thousand. They present differently in an academic environment because they are so, so much more than one IQ score.

Genius is an adjective used to describe people, not IQ scores, certainly not an NNAT score.

The op asked if her daughter was a genius. She would know better than us. But everything she’s said here indicates she is not.

Show me a source for your definition of genius. I would say DYS kids are geniuses. And OP’s kid might be but also might not be. A 160 NNAT in 9th grade certainly isn’t enough information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ACT and SAT were brought up in the context of Davidson Young Scholars and a few talent searches. The point of DYS and some of the talent search programs is to identify kids who are so far beyond their peers that their needs can't be met in public school without some significant advocacy. They don't require a strict 145 IQ to get in, nor are they suggesting that high ACT or SAT scores imply a 145+ IQ. They're just using different avenues to identify kids who are well beyond the norm.

Kids who take the SAT or ACT in middle school and score above the 95th percentile of college bound seniors would fit this category. Kids who score a 160 NNAT would not. The NNAT is too narrow of a test with too low of a ceiling and too much of an over-representation of high scores to draw conclusions about the educational needs for that child.

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

This is an utterly false assumption because the NNAT in middle school is very much meaningless. A truly "gifted" (or "genius" since it's being thrown around on this thread as if any kid scoring in the 99th percentile falls into a genius category ... if your kid isn't knocking off differential equations in elementary school, rest assured he/she would NOT qualify as a "genius" ... someone on here said it, let's just start using "high achieving child") student would be able to figure out content just by reading it, which includes math books found in the library. You don't have to teach the kid the content in an academic setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

This is an utterly false assumption because the NNAT in middle school is very much meaningless. A truly "gifted" (or "genius" since it's being thrown around on this thread as if any kid scoring in the 99th percentile falls into a genius category ... if your kid isn't knocking off differential equations in elementary school, rest assured he/she would NOT qualify as a "genius" ... someone on here said it, let's just start using "high achieving child") student would be able to figure out content just by reading it, which includes math books found in the library. You don't have to teach the kid the content in an academic setting.

Child prodigy =/= genius. OP's kid is definitely not a child prodigy. A lot of people would define genius as 145+ IQ or 1/1000 rarity. If a child is even a 1/1000 kid, I would expect to see some sort of notable achievement by 9th grade. DYS doesn't even go by just test scores. They want a full portfolio demonstrating gifted behaviors consistent with the test score. If a child's only achievement is straight As in honors classes, that shouldn't be enough to get in.

OP, maybe your kid is some sort of stealth genius. You should sign her up for the SAT. Also, have her join the math team or science olympiad team. If she starts knocking things out of the park, then you'll know more about her capabilities. If she doesn't - and she likely won't- then you can relax and appreciate that you have a very bright, high-achieving, normal child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The op asked if her kid was a genius.

Most DYS kids aren’t geniuses. They are kids with IQs in the profoundly gifted range, or 99.9th percentile, 1 in a thousand. They present differently in an academic environment because they are so, so much more than one IQ score.

Genius is an adjective used to describe people, not IQ scores, certainly not an NNAT score.

The op asked if her daughter was a genius. She would know better than us. But everything she’s said here indicates she is not.

OP here. Ok, geesh, I was using the term "genius" a bit loosely. Basically, I'm trying to figure out if she is at the point where we should doing more for her than what we have. I have suspected for a long time, that if she had gotten involved in activities like math counts, robotics, etc, she would probably excel in them. But do to circumstances, she never got involved in anything like that. I realize she's not a one in a million kid, but to be completely honest, I do believe that she is above the "typical gifted kid", so to say.

[Anonymous]

It’s not too late, OP. Encourage your DD to sign up for one if math team, robotics team, or science Olympiad. Sign her up for the SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

This is an utterly false assumption because the NNAT in middle school is very much meaningless. A truly "gifted" (or "genius" since it's being thrown around on this thread as if any kid scoring in the 99th percentile falls into a genius category ... if your kid isn't knocking off differential equations in elementary school, rest assured he/she would NOT qualify as a "genius" ... someone on here said it, let's just start using "high achieving child") student would be able to figure out content just by reading it, which includes math books found in the library. You don't have to teach the kid the content in an academic setting.

Child prodigy =/= genius. OP's kid is definitely not a child prodigy. A lot of people would define genius as 145+ IQ or 1/1000 rarity. If a child is even a 1/1000 kid, I would expect to see some sort of notable achievement by 9th grade. DYS doesn't even go by just test scores. They want a full portfolio demonstrating gifted behaviors consistent with the test score. If a child's only achievement is straight As in honors classes, that shouldn't be enough to get in.

OP, maybe your kid is some sort of stealth genius. You should sign her up for the SAT. Also, have her join the math team or science olympiad team. If she starts knocking things out of the park, then you'll know more about her capabilities. If she doesn't - and she likely won't- then you can relax and appreciate that you have a very bright, high-achieving, normal child.

Why "likely won't"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not too late, OP. Encourage your DD to sign up for one if math team, robotics team, or science Olympiad. Sign her up for the SAT.

I think I will probably do that, although the Duke and John Hopkins programs are out of our budget. At this point, DD is established in her other arts related activities, so unfortunately she wouldn't have time to get involved in something like math team or Robotics. Anyone know of any relatively inexpensive science/computer/math oriented summer day programs in NOVA for kids who are HS age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

This is an utterly false assumption because the NNAT in middle school is very much meaningless. A truly "gifted" (or "genius" since it's being thrown around on this thread as if any kid scoring in the 99th percentile falls into a genius category ... if your kid isn't knocking off differential equations in elementary school, rest assured he/she would NOT qualify as a "genius" ... someone on here said it, let's just start using "high achieving child") student would be able to figure out content just by reading it, which includes math books found in the library. You don't have to teach the kid the content in an academic setting.

Child prodigy =/= genius. OP's kid is definitely not a child prodigy. A lot of people would define genius as 145+ IQ or 1/1000 rarity. If a child is even a 1/1000 kid, I would expect to see some sort of notable achievement by 9th grade. DYS doesn't even go by just test scores. They want a full portfolio demonstrating gifted behaviors consistent with the test score. If a child's only achievement is straight As in honors classes, that shouldn't be enough to get in.

OP, maybe your kid is some sort of stealth genius. You should sign her up for the SAT. Also, have her join the math team or science olympiad team. If she starts knocking things out of the park, then you'll know more about her capabilities. If she doesn't - and she likely won't- then you can relax and appreciate that you have a very bright, high-achieving, normal child.

Why "likely won't"?

Because you have repeatedly described a 1/100 kid. I’m a new poster and I’d be surprised if all of a sudden she’s capable of solving linear algebra or multi variable calculus equations by intuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My guess is that a kid who scored a 160 on the NNAT would score in the 95th percentile on the SAT in middle school.

This is an utterly false assumption because the NNAT in middle school is very much meaningless. A truly "gifted" (or "genius" since it's being thrown around on this thread as if any kid scoring in the 99th percentile falls into a genius category ... if your kid isn't knocking off differential equations in elementary school, rest assured he/she would NOT qualify as a "genius" ... someone on here said it, let's just start using "high achieving child") student would be able to figure out content just by reading it, which includes math books found in the library. You don't have to teach the kid the content in an academic setting.

Child prodigy =/= genius. OP's kid is definitely not a child prodigy. A lot of people would define genius as 145+ IQ or 1/1000 rarity. If a child is even a 1/1000 kid, I would expect to see some sort of notable achievement by 9th grade. DYS doesn't even go by just test scores. They want a full portfolio demonstrating gifted behaviors consistent with the test score. If a child's only achievement is straight As in honors classes, that shouldn't be enough to get in.

OP, maybe your kid is some sort of stealth genius. You should sign her up for the SAT. Also, have her join the math team or science olympiad team. If she starts knocking things out of the park, then you'll know more about her capabilities. If she doesn't - and she likely won't- then you can relax and appreciate that you have a very bright, high-achieving, normal child.

Why "likely won't"?

Because you have repeatedly described a 1/100 kid. I’m a new poster and I’d be surprised if all of a sudden she’s capable of solving linear algebra or multi variable calculus equations by intuition.

Perhaps you're unaware that there is a range that falls in between 1/100 and solving multi-variable calculus by intuition?

[Anonymous]

DYS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, maybe your kid is some sort of stealth genius. You should sign her up for the SAT. Also, have her join the math team or science olympiad team. If she starts knocking things out of the park, then you'll know more about her capabilities. If she doesn't - and she likely won't- then you can relax and appreciate that you have a very bright, high-achieving, normal child.

Why "likely won't"?

I'm the first PP. I would say "likely won't" simply because most parents have a grossly inflated view of their child's aptitudes. Maybe you're one of those rare parents who has downplayed her child's abilities, but in this area, that would make you a unicorn.

I'm also having a hard time imagining a child who is at the 1/1000+ level, but not showing much beyond good grades in honors classes and some test scores. By 9th grade, I would expect some sort of significant achievement, or at the very least, a few teachers who have made a huge deal about your child being the brightest they've ever taught or way beyond the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, maybe your kid is some sort of stealth genius. You should sign her up for the SAT. Also, have her join the math team or science olympiad team. If she starts knocking things out of the park, then you'll know more about her capabilities. If she doesn't - and she likely won't- then you can relax and appreciate that you have a very bright, high-achieving, normal child.

Why "likely won't"?

I'm the first PP. I would say "likely won't" simply because most parents have a grossly inflated view of their child's aptitudes. Maybe you're one of those rare parents who has downplayed her child's abilities, but in this area, that would make you a unicorn.

I'm also having a hard time imagining a child who is at the 1/1000+ level, but not showing much beyond good grades in honors classes and some test scores. By 9th grade, I would expect some sort of significant achievement, or at the very least, a few teachers who have made a huge deal about your child being the brightest they've ever taught or way beyond the norm.

Ok, I have downplayed her abilities because I realize that many people would find my original question to be rather nauseating, and I didn't want to rattle of a list of examples that come across as bragging. Really I was trying to find out more about the meaning of the score itself, but since a number of posters seem to be rather intent on trying to tell me that my daughter probably really isn't all that smart, well here goes...Not only has she always earned A's throughout school, she has rarely gotten anything less than a 100 on any assignment, and generally that's without any studying at all. If she does study, it's a quick glance at her notes before she takes a test. She has scored 600s on every SOL test she's ever taken, when she took the test for middle school math to be placed two years ahead (which I don't think our county would place a kid any higher than that, unless a parent really pushed for it), she got the highest score of any of the incoming sixth graders in her school (and her school does have a lot of UMC, high achieving kids). Since preschool, basically every parent teacher conference has started out with the teacher saying "You're daughter is very smart." Also whenever she tries anything new, she excels in it. One example is with music. She never took any music lessons as a kid, about six months ago she asked for guitar lessons. Since then she has taken off with it. Her instructor says that she is at the same level as some of her students who have been playing for four years, and she really doesn't spend that much time practicing. I realize that none of this is evidence that she is an actual 1 in a million genius, like I tried to explain earlier, I was being sort of tongue in cheek when I used that word earlier. But I do think this goes beyond the level of what the "typical" gifted kids are performing at. Especially since we have done very little to develop her abilities.

[Anonymous]

Ok, she is a genius. You have the our approval! Can we please move on now?