Too early to start thinking W&M/UVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From UVA re Class of 2022: "UVA’s applicants hail from all 50 states and 147 countries. The most international applications were from China (3,254), followed by India (458) and Korea (423)"

And there we have the disconnect..

Applicants =/= acceptances =/= attending

I'm pretty sure institutional diversity doesn't come from applying. It just comes from those attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Nice try but you are omitting the obvious - UVA has sailed past W&M in statistics for 2017 and will also for entering class 2018 (yes, not reported yet on SCHEV). UVA had a 1500 SAT top quartile figure (there is a typo in the SCHEV report: 760M + 740V = 1500. You cite to the MEDIAN SAT figure for W&M and say it's only 10 points behind UVA because you picked the Median figure because there is the least discrepancy between UVA and W&M in that category. There is a 20 point gap (UVA leading) in SAT for top quartile, and a 20 point gap for bottom SAT quartile. UVA also beat W&M the the entering students ACTs at 33/32/29. UVA also beat W&M for entering students' GPAs at 4.44/4.29/4.13 compared to W&M's 4.44/4.24 and 4.04.

Now let's look at the accepted class of both schools for 2022 (note that accepted figures are always higher than enrolled (SCHEV) because kids with superlative scores apply to 15 schools and pick one). There some really interesting differentials pop up. W&M's selectivity for 2022 is only 36%. UVA's much more selective at 26.5% of applicants got in. W&M says it has a median ACT of 33 for accepted students. UVA's is already 32 for ENROLLED students at median and 33 at top quartile of enrolled students actually enrolled in 2017. W&M boasts that 87% of the accepted students are in the top ten percent of their high school class. UVA boasts 93% of accepted 2022 class is in top ten percent of their high school class. Finally, I notice real differences in international and diversity stats. UVA has students from only @ 48 countries, UVA has accepted students from 150+ countries (yes, it's larger, I know). UVA's diversity stats are better too. Note UVA's new emphasis on including 10% first-generation college students (418 students). https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2018/class-of-2022...tudents-find-a-home-at-wm.php. And 35% of the accepted 2022 students are from minority backgrounds at UVA. It's much less at W&M. Note also the new University Achievement Award and Blue Ridge Scholarships for disadvantaged or underrepresented students. And finally, note that a much higher yield at UVA is anticipated for this fall so UVA first year students may have to triple up.
https://www.richmond.com/news/local/education/near...8-5020-9e34-a39c98be8683.html. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-releases-adm...uva22-begins-trending-grounds. UVA's yield rate has also increased. http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2018/06/class...presented-to-board-of-visitors

I think we really need to wait for the 2022 SCHEV enrollment statistics to make any conclusions. The college admissions world is in tumult. Also, it seems obvious that TJ students would be more attracted to UVA due to size, tech, math, engineering and science programs and variety therein since that is what TJ is!. That doesn't make UVA better, it just makes common sense that more TJ kids would be attracted to UVA over a SLAC. (and I went to a SLAC).

William and Mary median SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1460
UVA mean SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1431

Guess the wind died for UVA

For both schools, obviously, admitted does not equal attending, which is usually lower, and mean does not equal median. So we can only see what they say in the Fall.

For UVA, I believe admitted mean is up 12 points and for W&M, admitted median is up 40 points. It could be partially due to students having better prep for the updated SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nice try but you are omitting the obvious - UVA has sailed past W&M in statistics for 2017 and will also for entering class 2018 (yes, not reported yet on SCHEV). UVA had a 1500 SAT top quartile figure (there is a typo in the SCHEV report: 760M + 740V = 1500. You cite to the MEDIAN SAT figure for W&M and say it's only 10 points behind UVA because you picked the Median figure because there is the least discrepancy between UVA and W&M in that category. There is a 20 point gap (UVA leading) in SAT for top quartile, and a 20 point gap for bottom SAT quartile. UVA also beat W&M the the entering students ACTs at 33/32/29. UVA also beat W&M for entering students' GPAs at 4.44/4.29/4.13 compared to W&M's 4.44/4.24 and 4.04.

Now let's look at the accepted class of both schools for 2022 (note that accepted figures are always higher than enrolled (SCHEV) because kids with superlative scores apply to 15 schools and pick one). There some really interesting differentials pop up. W&M's selectivity for 2022 is only 36%. UVA's much more selective at 26.5% of applicants got in. W&M says it has a median ACT of 33 for accepted students. UVA's is already 32 for ENROLLED students at median and 33 at top quartile of enrolled students actually enrolled in 2017. W&M boasts that 87% of the accepted students are in the top ten percent of their high school class. UVA boasts 93% of accepted 2022 class is in top ten percent of their high school class. Finally, I notice real differences in international and diversity stats. UVA has students from only @ 48 countries, UVA has accepted students from 150+ countries (yes, it's larger, I know). UVA's diversity stats are better too. Note UVA's new emphasis on including 10% first-generation college students (418 students). https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2018/class-of-2022...tudents-find-a-home-at-wm.php. And 35% of the accepted 2022 students are from minority backgrounds at UVA. It's much less at W&M. Note also the new University Achievement Award and Blue Ridge Scholarships for disadvantaged or underrepresented students. And finally, note that a much higher yield at UVA is anticipated for this fall so UVA first year students may have to triple up.
https://www.richmond.com/news/local/education/near...8-5020-9e34-a39c98be8683.html. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-releases-adm...uva22-begins-trending-grounds. UVA's yield rate has also increased. http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2018/06/class...presented-to-board-of-visitors

I think we really need to wait for the 2022 SCHEV enrollment statistics to make any conclusions. The college admissions world is in tumult. Also, it seems obvious that TJ students would be more attracted to UVA due to size, tech, math, engineering and science programs and variety therein since that is what TJ is!. That doesn't make UVA better, it just makes common sense that more TJ kids would be attracted to UVA over a SLAC. (and I went to a SLAC).

William and Mary median SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1460
UVA mean SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1431

Guess the wind died for UVA

Why is this so important for you? Median SAT means nothing. 75th percentile is what talks. W&M class of 2022 accept is only 87% of top ten percent of high school class. UVA is 94.6% in top ten percent of high school class. UVA's entering GPAs are also higher than W&M.

You say 75th percentile is what "talks" and I'm sure it is important, but not quite sure why that would be more significant than median. Note that based on 75th percentile as you cite, GPAs from 2017 are actually the same between the schools at 4.44.

Regarding GPAs, I worked in admissions for a short while (and a few years ago now) but I can still tell you that GPAs are not standardized in the sense SAT/ACT are. The way they are calculated varies greatly from district to school to teacher. They can be hyper inflated in many cases and less so in others. (Look at the examples in the blog link below.) The office I worked in looked at the context of the grades and the difficulty of the coursework to come up with their own index. BTW, that appears to be similar to what UVA does based on this blog from Dean J http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2018/03/can-we-talk-about-your-gpa.html

[Anonymous]

every single person contributing on this thread is a f*cking nerd.

In addition, most UVA grads (and I know A LOT of them) are insecure assholes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:every single person contributing on this thread is a f*cking nerd.

In addition, most UVA grads (and I know A LOT of them) are insecure assholes.

You just contributed, therefore . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:every single person contributing on this thread is a f*cking nerd.

In addition, most UVA grads (and I know A LOT of them) are insecure assholes.

Why are there so many crass, insulting posts on this site? Is the DC region that poisonous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:every single person contributing on this thread is a f*cking nerd.

In addition, most UVA grads (and I know A LOT of them) are insecure assholes.

Why are there so many crass, insulting posts on this site? Is the DC region that poisonous?

Because it is anonymous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nice try but you are omitting the obvious - UVA has sailed past W&M in statistics for 2017 and will also for entering class 2018 (yes, not reported yet on SCHEV). UVA had a 1500 SAT top quartile figure (there is a typo in the SCHEV report: 760M + 740V = 1500. You cite to the MEDIAN SAT figure for W&M and say it's only 10 points behind UVA because you picked the Median figure because there is the least discrepancy between UVA and W&M in that category. There is a 20 point gap (UVA leading) in SAT for top quartile, and a 20 point gap for bottom SAT quartile. UVA also beat W&M the the entering students ACTs at 33/32/29. UVA also beat W&M for entering students' GPAs at 4.44/4.29/4.13 compared to W&M's 4.44/4.24 and 4.04.

Now let's look at the accepted class of both schools for 2022 (note that accepted figures are always higher than enrolled (SCHEV) because kids with superlative scores apply to 15 schools and pick one). There some really interesting differentials pop up. W&M's selectivity for 2022 is only 36%. UVA's much more selective at 26.5% of applicants got in. W&M says it has a median ACT of 33 for accepted students. UVA's is already 32 for ENROLLED students at median and 33 at top quartile of enrolled students actually enrolled in 2017. W&M boasts that 87% of the accepted students are in the top ten percent of their high school class. UVA boasts 93% of accepted 2022 class is in top ten percent of their high school class. Finally, I notice real differences in international and diversity stats. UVA has students from only @ 48 countries, UVA has accepted students from 150+ countries (yes, it's larger, I know). UVA's diversity stats are better too. Note UVA's new emphasis on including 10% first-generation college students (418 students). https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2018/class-of-2022...tudents-find-a-home-at-wm.php. And 35% of the accepted 2022 students are from minority backgrounds at UVA. It's much less at W&M. Note also the new University Achievement Award and Blue Ridge Scholarships for disadvantaged or underrepresented students. And finally, note that a much higher yield at UVA is anticipated for this fall so UVA first year students may have to triple up.
https://www.richmond.com/news/local/education/near...8-5020-9e34-a39c98be8683.html. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-releases-adm...uva22-begins-trending-grounds. UVA's yield rate has also increased. http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2018/06/class...presented-to-board-of-visitors

I think we really need to wait for the 2022 SCHEV enrollment statistics to make any conclusions. The college admissions world is in tumult. Also, it seems obvious that TJ students would be more attracted to UVA due to size, tech, math, engineering and science programs and variety therein since that is what TJ is!. That doesn't make UVA better, it just makes common sense that more TJ kids would be attracted to UVA over a SLAC. (and I went to a SLAC).

William and Mary median SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1460
UVA mean SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1431

Guess the wind died for UVA

Why is this so important for you? Median SAT means nothing. 75th percentile is what talks. W&M class of 2022 accept is only 87% of top ten percent of high school class. UVA is 94.6% in top ten percent of high school class. UVA's entering GPAs are also higher than W&M.

You say 75th percentile is what "talks" and I'm sure it is important, but not quite sure why that would be more significant than median. Note that based on 75th percentile as you cite, GPAs from 2017 are actually the same between the schools at 4.44.

Regarding GPAs, I worked in admissions for a short while (and a few years ago now) but I can still tell you that GPAs are not standardized in the sense SAT/ACT are. The way they are calculated varies greatly from district to school to teacher. They can be hyper inflated in many cases and less so in others. (Look at the examples in the blog link below.) The office I worked in looked at the context of the grades and the difficulty of the coursework to come up with their own index. BTW, that appears to be similar to what UVA does based on this blog from Dean J http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2018/03/can-we-talk-about-your-gpa.html

Uh, everyone knows that. Which is why UVA or W&M have profiles on every single high school - down to the percentage of the class which has a particular GPA, which is how they tell if your child is in the top ten percent of their class. Some schools even go up to a 7.0 now. Others stop at 4.0. Some are now using a zero to 10 scale for grading, but all of that can be sized up in seconds by lining up an applicant's GPA and AP courses against the school profiile. Usually the first readers do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Regarding GPAs, I worked in admissions for a short while (and a few years ago now) but I can still tell you that GPAs are not standardized in the sense SAT/ACT are. The way they are calculated varies greatly from district to school to teacher. They can be hyper inflated in many cases and less so in others. (Look at the examples in the blog link below.) The office I worked in looked at the context of the grades and the difficulty of the coursework to come up with their own index. BTW, that appears to be similar to what UVA does based on this blog from Dean J http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2018/03/can-we-talk-about-your-gpa.html

[/b]

Uh, everyone knows that. Which is why UVA or W&M have profiles on every single high school - down to the percentage of the class which has a particular GPA, which is how they tell if your child is in the top ten percent of their class. Some schools even go up to a 7.0 now. Others stop at 4.0. Some are now using a zero to 10 scale for grading, but all of that can be sized up in seconds by lining up an applicant's GPA and AP courses against the school profiile. Usually the first readers do this.

You are implying that the the college creates the profile, but that blog says the high school generates the profile and sends it to the college. Not a bit deal, but interesting.

[Anonymous]

To cut to the chase, based on yield, UVA is obviously a more popular school than William and Mary. It’s a fantastic school. William and Mary is a sui generis institution — the best small public university in the country, as it used to call itself. It’s very intense and not for everyone. But it’s also wonderful place for many. So yes, think about both, early and often, if you live in state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To cut to the chase, based on yield, UVA is obviously a more popular school than William and Mary. It’s a fantastic school. William and Mary is a sui generis institution — the best small public university in the country, as it used to call itself. It’s very intense and not for everyone. But it’s also wonderful place for many. So yes, think about both, early and often, if you live in state.

OK, but there is also some basic math going on. UVA is considerably larger. It has about 2.6X as many spots to fill as W&M. If they are pulling from the same general pool (the qualified in-state applicants), it has to get a higher percentage of them to fill its class than W&M. (And there is overlap because applicants want a Plan B.) If the splits changed significantly in W&M's favor, it would have to either significantly increase class size (unlikely) or become much more selective.

For OOS, where both schools get most of their applicants, I think the yields have been going down long term at both schools primarily because of the relative cost factor. UVA and W&M OOS tuition has gone way up and privates have much more financial aid to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nice try but you are omitting the obvious - UVA has sailed past W&M in statistics for 2017 and will also for entering class 2018 (yes, not reported yet on SCHEV). UVA had a 1500 SAT top quartile figure (there is a typo in the SCHEV report: 760M + 740V = 1500. You cite to the MEDIAN SAT figure for W&M and say it's only 10 points behind UVA because you picked the Median figure because there is the least discrepancy between UVA and W&M in that category. There is a 20 point gap (UVA leading) in SAT for top quartile, and a 20 point gap for bottom SAT quartile. UVA also beat W&M the the entering students ACTs at 33/32/29. UVA also beat W&M for entering students' GPAs at 4.44/4.29/4.13 compared to W&M's 4.44/4.24 and 4.04.

Now let's look at the accepted class of both schools for 2022 (note that accepted figures are always higher than enrolled (SCHEV) because kids with superlative scores apply to 15 schools and pick one). There some really interesting differentials pop up. W&M's selectivity for 2022 is only 36%. UVA's much more selective at 26.5% of applicants got in. W&M says it has a median ACT of 33 for accepted students. UVA's is already 32 for ENROLLED students at median and 33 at top quartile of enrolled students actually enrolled in 2017. W&M boasts that 87% of the accepted students are in the top ten percent of their high school class. UVA boasts 93% of accepted 2022 class is in top ten percent of their high school class. Finally, I notice real differences in international and diversity stats. UVA has students from only @ 48 countries, UVA has accepted students from 150+ countries (yes, it's larger, I know). UVA's diversity stats are better too. Note UVA's new emphasis on including 10% first-generation college students (418 students). https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2018/class-of-2022...tudents-find-a-home-at-wm.php. And 35% of the accepted 2022 students are from minority backgrounds at UVA. It's much less at W&M. Note also the new University Achievement Award and Blue Ridge Scholarships for disadvantaged or underrepresented students. And finally, note that a much higher yield at UVA is anticipated for this fall so UVA first year students may have to triple up.
https://www.richmond.com/news/local/education/near...8-5020-9e34-a39c98be8683.html. https://news.virginia.edu/content/uva-releases-adm...uva22-begins-trending-grounds. UVA's yield rate has also increased. http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2018/06/class...presented-to-board-of-visitors

I think we really need to wait for the 2022 SCHEV enrollment statistics to make any conclusions. The college admissions world is in tumult. Also, it seems obvious that TJ students would be more attracted to UVA due to size, tech, math, engineering and science programs and variety therein since that is what TJ is!. That doesn't make UVA better, it just makes common sense that more TJ kids would be attracted to UVA over a SLAC. (and I went to a SLAC).

William and Mary median SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1460
UVA mean SAT for admitted students class of 2022: 1431

Guess the wind died for UVA

Why is this so important for you? Median SAT means nothing. 75th percentile is what talks. W&M class of 2022 accept is only 87% of top ten percent of high school class. UVA is 94.6% in top ten percent of high school class. UVA's entering GPAs are also higher than W&M.

You say 75th percentile is what "talks" and I'm sure it is important, but not quite sure why that would be more significant than median. Note that based on 75th percentile as you cite, GPAs from 2017 are actually the same between the schools at 4.44.

Regarding GPAs, I worked in admissions for a short while (and a few years ago now) but I can still tell you that GPAs are not standardized in the sense SAT/ACT are. The way they are calculated varies greatly from district to school to teacher. They can be hyper inflated in many cases and less so in others. (Look at the examples in the blog link below.) The office I worked in looked at the context of the grades and the difficulty of the coursework to come up with their own index. BTW, that appears to be similar to what UVA does based on this blog from Dean J http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2018/03/can-we-talk-about-your-gpa.html

Uh, everyone knows that. Which is why UVA or W&M have profiles on every single high school - down to the percentage of the class which has a particular GPA, which is how they tell if your child is in the top ten percent of their class. Some schools even go up to a 7.0 now. Others stop at 4.0. Some are now using a zero to 10 scale for grading, but all of that can be sized up in seconds by lining up an applicant's GPA and AP courses against the school profiile. Usually the first readers do this.

No. I think you misunderstood my point. Perhaps Dean J's blog puts it better. They use the profile and it is useful and provides context, but they are really doing the assessment on the individual transcript. There can be two kids from the same school with same GPA, but they can have a clear preference for one over the other based on what is on the transcript. They can even have a clear preference for a lower GPA over a higher GPA from the same school based on the transcripts.

Perhaps this blog describes it better: http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2015/03/i-dont-care-about-your-gpa.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Regarding GPAs, I worked in admissions for a short while (and a few years ago now) but I can still tell you that GPAs are not standardized in the sense SAT/ACT are. The way they are calculated varies greatly from district to school to teacher. They can be hyper inflated in many cases and less so in others. (Look at the examples in the blog link below.) The office I worked in looked at the context of the grades and the difficulty of the coursework to come up with their own index. BTW, that appears to be similar to what UVA does based on this blog from Dean J http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2018/03/can-we-talk-about-your-gpa.html

[/b]

Uh, everyone knows that. Which is why UVA or W&M have profiles on every single high school - down to the percentage of the class which has a particular GPA, which is how they tell if your child is in the top ten percent of their class. Some schools even go up to a 7.0 now. Others stop at 4.0. Some are now using a zero to 10 scale for grading, but all of that can be sized up in seconds by lining up an applicant's GPA and AP courses against the school profiile. Usually the first readers do this.

You are implying that the the college creates the profile, but that blog says the high school generates the profile and sends it to the college. Not a bit deal, but interesting.

The high school creates a profile and provides it to colleges. The colleges use that information, but then have their own way of breaking down a transcript.

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2015/03/i-dont-care-about-your-gpa.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Regarding GPAs, I worked in admissions for a short while (and a few years ago now) but I can still tell you that GPAs are not standardized in the sense SAT/ACT are. The way they are calculated varies greatly from district to school to teacher. They can be hyper inflated in many cases and less so in others. (Look at the examples in the blog link below.) The office I worked in looked at the context of the grades and the difficulty of the coursework to come up with their own index. BTW, that appears to be similar to what UVA does based on this blog from Dean J http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2018/03/can-we-talk-about-your-gpa.html

[/b]

Uh, everyone knows that. Which is why UVA or W&M have profiles on every single high school - down to the percentage of the class which has a particular GPA, which is how they tell if your child is in the top ten percent of their class. Some schools even go up to a 7.0 now. Others stop at 4.0. Some are now using a zero to 10 scale for grading, but all of that can be sized up in seconds by lining up an applicant's GPA and AP courses against the school profiile. Usually the first readers do this.

You are implying that the the college creates the profile, but that blog says the high school generates the profile and sends it to the college. Not a bit deal, but interesting.

The high school creates a profile and provides it to colleges. The colleges use that information, but then have their own way of breaking down a transcript.

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2015/03/i-dont-care-about-your-gpa.html

This is spot on and the graph I was referencing earlier Look at the GPA distribution for a particular high school (bar graph). That's exactly how UVA and W&M ascertain where your child sits in their particular high school. . that is also how they ascertain if you student is in the top tenpercent of the class.

[Anonymous]

My thought is this...UVA looks at class rank as main factor, let's say top 10%, and they know how to find this out...school profile, honor society inductees, etc., and W&M is a bit more holistic...GPA +SAT/ACT + gender (always favoring males a bit to balance the ratio) and the application's softer attributes like essay, extracurricular activities, etc. Two completely different schools for two completely different type students...aren't we Virginians lucky to have such choices.