Why are you deleting my posts in the Explaining Transgenderism thread?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And as for your thing about how you only respond to reported comments - Um, OP's comment *wasn't* off topic. It's just your go-to excuse for deleting stuff that doesn't fit with the Liberal lock-step doublespeak.

You didn't even read the comment and have no idea what it said. You have no basis to judge whether or not it was off topic. Your opinion about this is as irrelevant as your claims about my motivation which is equally misinformed.

I did, actually, and it was also repeatedly alluded to in this thread.

How convenient for you, Jeff, that you deleted the comment so no one else can judge for themselves; we must all be subject to your censure and version of the events.

People like you have destroyed Liberalism.

Now you are the liar because you didn't read the thread. I just happen to have a copy of the post so everyone can judge for themselves:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m not a troll. I’m a logical person. And guess what, I too know transgender people who I’ve been friends with! I also know bipolar people who I’ve been friends with. Doesn’t change the fact that the behavior is best described as mental illness. That’s okay, mental illness isn’t evil. But I’m not going to normalize it.

Best described as mental illness, by whom? Not by the American Psychiatric Association.

It’s in the DSM so yes, it is a mental illness. If you’d rather call it a “mental disorder,” knock yourself out.

As you can see, by the time the DSM came up, there was already a chain of messages discussing whether transgendered people are mentally ill. That discussion does nothing to address the OP's request for advice.

Actually it does. Because what you tell a child about someone mentally ill is different than what you tell a child about someone who’s just quirky or different. And as the OP of this thread note that apparently I was initially fine just giving my unsourced opinion that the kid was mentally ill and brought up the DSM when challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

I participated in the Non-binary thread yesterday and had two posts removed (I asked Jeff about one of them, and it turned out I had made a mistake).

Basically, the impression I get is that posts are going to be aggressively vetted if they suggest that people with non-traditional gender identities are in any way mentally perturbed, or if they suggest antagonism toward gender fluidity and exploration.

Which is fine. I support the owner and moderator of this site doing exactly as he pleases with his website.

Now as a scientist, for me the DSM is something to take seriously. People should also be aware that it contains out-of-date information - the one I am most informed about is ADHD. Each version of the DSM takes years to put together and is hotly debated by experts.

Also, even though it may be factually correct to say transgenderism is a mental illness, it's not really how you want your kid to explain it to another kid, is it? It's not a very compassionate way to put things, considering mental illness is still quite taboo in our society (which is sad in itself).

So... the most important skill we should develop is to respect other people's points of view.

NP. I also had my comments removed from the transgender thread, and I do not understand why. I was very careful to keep to the root of OP's question - how would you explain this to a six year old.

I have a six-year old, so I think I have a good idea of what I, myself, would say, given this situation. I would be very clear that we believe (referring to my DH and myself) that this is a very sad situation and that this child most likely has many problems. I would instruct DC that he is to continue to be nice to this child, but I would also be very clear that this behavior is not something that we agree with.

I'm sorry you don't like my response. But I fail to see how that is "trolling" or "not answering OP's question."

[Anonymous]

Why would you tell a child that his friend was "mentally ill". Why would tell a child his friend had "many problems"? Why would you suggest to a child that it's a "sad situation"?

If I knew you were telling your child that about ANY child, our children would no longer be friends. I work hard to teach my children unconditional love, compassion, acceptance, inclusivity, and most importantly, kindness. I hope the world is able to teach your children the important lessons that you are failing to teach. We already have far too much hate in our world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would you tell a child that his friend was "mentally ill". Why would tell a child his friend had "many problems"? Why would you suggest to a child that it's a "sad situation"?

If I knew you were telling your child that about ANY child, our children would no longer be friends. I work hard to teach my children unconditional love, compassion, acceptance, inclusivity, and most importantly, kindness. I hope the world is able to teach your children the important lessons that you are failing to teach. We already have far too much hate in our world.

Maybe in your world, lady, “mentally ill” or “emotional problems” is some horrible, awful, evil thing. It’s not in my world. It’s just reality. It’s not incompatible with love or compassion. Frankly, if you’re so darn open-minded, I question why you are attaching such stigma to these words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you deleted a post in which I responds to someone who called me a troll (despite not posting anything remotely trollish — those posts are still up) by explaining that no, I am not. My posts are on topic. The question is how to explain a transgender classmate to a kid. I would tell them to be nice to the person but basically it’s a rare mental disorder.

Jeff doesn't believe in science.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just deleted a post in which I made the correct factual statement that transgenderism is a mental disorder in the DSM? Pray tell, why?

Are you seriously going to tell a 6 year old that his friend is mentally ill based on what is listed in the DSM? Your statement may be factual, but it has little to do with the topic.

NP.

Yes, I would tell my six year old exactly that. Of course I would put it in six year old terms, but I would definitely explain what the DSM is and says, and what noted medical institutions such as Johns Hopkins says. I would also answer any other questions my six year old would come up with. I've had three six year olds, and all were thoughtful enough to handle it.

You can also explain to your child that his friend is not dangerous to him and others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just deleted a post in which I made the correct factual statement that transgenderism is a mental disorder in the DSM? Pray tell, why?

Are you seriously going to tell a 6 year old that his friend is mentally ill based on what is listed in the DSM? Your statement may be factual, but it has little to do with the topic.

Uh, yes, I am. Are you serious? I’d tell a 6 year old the same thing if a friend was cutting themselves. I’d say, be nice to Larla because she’s having emotional problems that she’s working through. Given all the stuff in that thread, to delete MY posts as off topic. Really??

You just contradicted yourself. Are you going to say that the child has "emotional problems" or is "mentally ill because of what the DSM says"?

I have deleted a lot of posts from that thread and would be happy to delete more if anyone wants to report them. There are 70 posts in that thread and there are a lot of things I rather do than read every one of them.

That’s not a contradiction. It’s 6-year-old speak for “This is a mental illness in the DSM.” I feel comfortable describing it as “emotional problems” and not as normal BECAUSE it actually is in the DSM. Reinstate my posts please.

You are correct. You explained things in terms that a six year old would understand. That makes you a good parent.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And you deleted a post in which I responds to someone who called me a troll (despite not posting anything remotely trollish — those posts are still up) by explaining that no, I am not. My posts are on topic. The question is how to explain a transgender classmate to a kid. I would tell them to be nice to the person but basically it’s a rare mental disorder.

Jeff doesn't believe in science.

I'm afraid you confused me with a member of your political party.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just deleted a post in which I made the correct factual statement that transgenderism is a mental disorder in the DSM? Pray tell, why?

Are you seriously going to tell a 6 year old that his friend is mentally ill based on what is listed in the DSM? Your statement may be factual, but it has little to do with the topic.

NP.

Yes, I would tell my six year old exactly that. Of course I would put it in six year old terms, but I would definitely explain what the DSM is and says, and what noted medical institutions such as Johns Hopkins says. I would also answer any other questions my six year old would come up with. I've had three six year olds, and all were thoughtful enough to handle it.

You can also explain to your child that his friend is not dangerous to him and others.

You are another poster who didn't read the thread and is only coming to this thread because you never miss an opportunity to whine about "liberal bias". Nobody believes that you would discuss the DSM with a six year old.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m not wrong about it. Why do you say that? Because someone posted a HuffPo article? Can I go back to the original thread and explain why I’m not wrong? I didn’t hijack the thread. The relevance of it being a mental illness to what you tell your kids is pretty obvious but if you want me to spell that out in every post I make, fine.

I personally have zero understanding of the DSM or what it says. But, I don't think that I would be alone in giving more credit to a bylined Huffington Post article than a post by "Anonymous". Like all other posters, you are welcome to advise the OP in how to address this topic with her child. A debate on the broader topic is not welcome.

That's pretty scary.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m not wrong about it. Why do you say that? Because someone posted a HuffPo article? Can I go back to the original thread and explain why I’m not wrong? I didn’t hijack the thread. The relevance of it being a mental illness to what you tell your kids is pretty obvious but if you want me to spell that out in every post I make, fine.

I personally have zero understanding of the DSM or what it says. But, I don't think that I would be alone in giving more credit to a bylined Huffington Post article than a post by "Anonymous". Like all other posters, you are welcome to advise the OP in how to address this topic with her child. A debate on the broader topic is not welcome.

That's pretty scary.

Why? I'm sure that you have even less understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And as for your thing about how you only respond to reported comments - Um, OP's comment *wasn't* off topic. It's just your go-to excuse for deleting stuff that doesn't fit with the Liberal lock-step doublespeak.

You didn't even read the comment and have no idea what it said. You have no basis to judge whether or not it was off topic. Your opinion about this is as irrelevant as your claims about my motivation which is equally misinformed.

I did, actually, and it was also repeatedly alluded to in this thread.

How convenient for you, Jeff, that you deleted the comment so no one else can judge for themselves; we must all be subject to your censure and version of the events.

People like you have destroyed Liberalism.

Some of us do screenshots for this very purpose....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would you tell a child that his friend was "mentally ill". Why would tell a child his friend had "many problems"? Why would you suggest to a child that it's a "sad situation"?

If I knew you were telling your child that about ANY child, our children would no longer be friends. I work hard to teach my children unconditional love, compassion, acceptance, inclusivity, and most importantly, kindness. I hope the world is able to teach your children the important lessons that you are failing to teach. We already have far too much hate in our world.

I am not the poster who said that I would tell my six year old that the friend was mentally ill. I would not use that term, because my 6 year old wouldn't get it. But, yes, I would tell my 6YODC -- assuming 6 year old DC asked about it of course -- that the friend is in a "sad situation" and that he does have many problems. Those are probably the specific words I would use, because a 6 year old would understand them.

And they are true. It is a very sad situation -- quite possibly indicative of physical or sexual abuse. At minimum, it is a sign that the child has parents who are failing to provide guidance. These, in my mind, are "problems," which makes the second statement true as well. I would not elaborate to 6YO what I think these problems are, but I would want my child to know that -- in fact -- compassion is in order, because of what this kid must be dealing with at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're not familiar with content-based restrictions in First Amendment discussions? Okay, let me try to put it in an easier way.

NP. This argument is not at all relevant. The first amendment protections are protections against government or public censure or penalty against citizens. The first amendment has absolutely no role in covering a discussion on a private source that is not publicly funded. Unless Jeff and Maria are getting government grants to run DCUM, the first amendment provides no control over how he chooses to moderate a discussion.

Oh dear god. Thanks for completely missing the point, genius.

The sentence I wrote was in reference to Jeff and other posters who could not grasp the meaning of the word "content" when in fact it is a term used commonly in First Amendment debates surrounding free speech. No one is saying First Amendment restrictions should apply to DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transgenderism is not a mental disorder in the DSM. Gender dysmorphia (feeling strongly that your identity does not match your body to the point where it causes you problems) is the relevant disorder. Actually transitioning to a gender that matches your identity is a TREATMENT for gender dysmorphia.

But people don’t use the terminology in that way in the thread or in real life. OP asked about a “transgender” kid but that kid hadn’t fully transitioned but is rather suffering from gender dysmorphia. It’s semantics.

No, it's not. Because the relevant problem with the disorder is the DISTRESS. If someone is transitioning and isn't distressed about it, then they don't have gender dysmorphia. Shouldn't be a huge surprise that someone who is experiencing a certain kind of severe distress is classified as having a disorder.

As I said in my previous post, treating the distress does not mean your disordered thinking is now normal. By analogy: I have depression. I treat it. I still have depression even if it’s treated. Treatment for a fully transitioned transgender person is long-term hormones and other therapies. It’s not a one-time “cure.”

I mean, it's great that you're trying to play doctor here, but you're just wrong. Many transgender people never experience gender dysmorphia. They just transition and are fine. Gender dysmorphia is something that sometimes happens, and sometimes doesn't. You can experience gender dysmorphia and never transition. You can transition without ever experiencing it. They are two different things. Your attempts to make them the same are simply medically incorrect.

Your attempt at playing doctor is... worse? Some people just randomly transition despite never having been distressed with being in the wrong body? That’s extraordinarily rare. You don’t wake up one day and just transition. In any event, I have a reasonable disagreement with you so cut it out with the insults and troll-reporting.

I'm not a doctor but I have a job that actually requires me to know a great deal about the psychology of being transgender (which is why I chimed in on this thread in the first place). I guarantee you that my knowledge of the medical issues regarding gender identity is far informed than whatever you dreamed up in your head.

NP

According to this article (which I assume to be a reputable source) distress does not define gender dysphoria. It is merely feeling conflicted between the persons physical gender and the gender with which they identify:

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

This is incorrect. Distress is a component. See here. https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/gender-dysphoria-dsm--5-302.85-(f64.9)

Yes. Stress is a component, but does not define it.

I mean really, find me one person who does not identify with the gender they were assigned at birth and is NOT stressed about it.

If they aren't disstressed about it they probably won't say anything or try to do anything about it.