The rules had to keep changing to keep up with all the Jewish men marrying shiksas. And yes I resent having been called a shiksa. This is not true. Reform is generally more liberal in all areas with women rabbis and not separate seating. Conservative Judaism has had women rabbis for almost 30 years now (granted that was some years after Reform) and has had mixed seating at least since the 1940s. Though generally you are correct |
Please. It can well make a difference if when they grow up they want to join a Conservative or Orthodox community, or marry a Conservative or Orthodox Jew, when they will likely need to have a conversion ceremony. If they have always considered themselves Jewish, and the situation has not been fully explained to them growing up, they may find this traumatic and react negatively. Ok but I don't think that is the question here. I don't think people should avoid intermarriage for those reasons. I am not addressing whether or why people should avoid intermarriage (as an in-married Jew by birth I doubt my views are desired by OP) I merely wanted to point out that the practical issues for "patrilineal Jewish" children are not limited to ones involving Israel. I am guessing some people here either are assuming children remain children (they do not, they grown up and their own marriages become issues for them) or are assuming their children will not end up more religious than their parents (again, quite a few Jewish young people end up quite a bit more "religious" than their parents) |
Ok but I don't think that is the question here. I don't think people should avoid intermarriage for those reasons. I am not addressing whether or why people should avoid intermarriage (as an in-married Jew by birth I doubt my views are desired by OP) I merely wanted to point out that the practical issues for "patrilineal Jewish" children are not limited to ones involving Israel. I am guessing some people here either are assuming children remain children (they do not, they grown up and their own marriages become issues for them) or are assuming their children will not end up more religious than their parents (again, quite a few Jewish young people end up quite a bit more "religious" than their parents) I am the PP who, FWIW, is someone who converted to Judaism with a Reform rabbi and I am well aware that my Jewish status would not be recongized in the conservative/orthodox movement and in Israel. We belong to a reform synagogue and I and my kids are fully accepted as Jews. My husband's family is more observant (grandfather is orthodox) and they don't give a hoot that I converted with a Reform vs. Orthodox rabbi. I agree with you that there may be circumstances in which this will arise (if they do become more religious or want to move to Israel) but the odds are greater that for the 18 years they are living at home, whether their mother is technically Jewish by outdated norms of Jewish law or not does not matter. |
No here.I said yes and regretted it later on. When the bar mitzbah time came I began having many second thoughts and doubts - because it is a huge commitment for someone who is not Jewish. A lot of resentment toward my husband who left all of the "raising" to me. I wish I would have asked these questions in the first place. As other pp's have said, the religious training is often left to the mother. I do not think it is reasonable for a non-Jewish mother to be responsible for all of this. The father needs to be more involved or married to a Jewish woman. Op unless you want to be Jewish (that is, convert and immerse yourself in Jewish culture) I don't think you should agree to raise your children Jewish. At least not without getting more information about exactly what that means. |
I agree. Both my parents are Jewish but my mother never had a religious education growing up and it wasn't important to her. And she made that pretty plain to us kids. It was important to my dad so it caused a lot of conflict until he finally realized that if he wanted us to have any religious knowledge, it was on him to provide it. Mom would take us to and from Hebrew school and that was it. It was Dad who took us to synagogue, explained the holidays, planned the holidays, did Shabbat, etc. Mom cooked but only because he wanted her to. She hasn't set foot in a synagogue in years except for weddings and bnai mitzvot and she's happy that way. And if that's how it was for our family in which both parents were born and raised Jewish (at least culturally in my mom's case), I can only imagine how much harder it is when one spouse comes from a different religious tradition -- especially a tradition in which the spouse is active. OP, I think another poster gave sound advice to attend some services and see what the community is like, maybe talk to some people who have converted if a rabbi can put you in touch. |
NP here. I was raised Christian, dh raised Jewish. Neither of us are very into the trappings of organized religion, so it was easy to choose to raise our kids Jewish. I wouldn't be going to church otherwise...so it's not like I'm missing out on my own religious celebrations at all. That said, we do a Chrismukkah tree every year. We tell our kids that Christmas is when we get together with family and Santa brings presents. Nothing about Jesus, because that's not what it's about for us. |
You need to be aware that many Jewish people are not comfortable with having non-Jewish symbols -such as as Christmas trees- in the house. You as a non-Jew, might be open to adopting Jewish traditions and RAISING YOUR CHILDREN JEWISH. This might mean that you will not be allowed to share your non-Jewish customs with your children - such as Christmas. Even Jews who are not particularly religious can be quite rigid about what it means to be Jewish. Just read this this forum around Christmas time! Children are born to two parents of two different backgrounds. Why should one parent's heritage have to be cast out of the house? Not reasonable in my opinion. For those people who feel religion is very important they should marry someone who shares their beliefs and background. Even in this case there will have to be compromises - I am sure that same-faith couples don't agree on every aspect of their religion. More questions for the OP: are you planning to go to church alone? What does Christianity mean to you?? Can you really be a Christian in a Jewish household - your own Jewish household??! |
There is also the cultural part that you cannot give your child being a different religion. Its not just the religion. |
And Jewish people are not open and accepting of others in that way. Two people with different backgrounds could get married and share their "culture" but Jewish people can not. They will not tolerate your Christmas tree. They feel they are the "chosen" ones. They will always help out a Jewish person before a non Jew. If you question this they will call you anti-Semetic. |
You do not understand because you're not a minority religion in a Christian society. |
|
"And Jewish people are not open and accepting of others in that way. Two people with different backgrounds could get married and share their "culture" but Jewish people can not. They will not tolerate your Christmas tree. They feel they are the "chosen" ones. They will always help out a Jewish person before a non Jew. If you question this they will call you anti-Semetic."
We Jews contain lovely people and racist people among our numbers, as with all groups. I don't do the things you list and don't give a flying f@#$ about your tree. Your generalizing is really over the top. I'm calling you out on being racist. I suspect you have nothing in particular against Jews, but could have written your post with minor changes about at least a few other groups not your own. So yeah, I am calling you a bigot. |
Jews are not monolithic (see the threads around xmas time). I am one of the PPs who converted to Judaism- I grew up largely secular but did celebrate Christmas at home. It was easy for me to give up. As we have a Jewish home, we do not do Christmas at all in our house- no tree, wreath, santa, whatever. Honestly, I do think that's part of the minority experience-- every December, my kids understand what it is like to be in the minority and to have all this celebration all around them that does not really include our holiday. What it's like to go to the store and the Hannukah section has one shelf and the rest of the store is Christmas. Why is the menorah on display half the size of the Christmas tree. I am also a racial minority, so it is easy for me to accept this (this is my lived experience) but I can see how it would be difficult for the average white Christian woman to accept. Although we are Reform, we do many of the Jewish holidays at home (not just Hannukah), including Sukkot, Purim, Passover, high holidays; we do shabbat every Friday night. Kids go to Sunday School. So for my kids, being Jewish doesn't mean "not celebrating Christmas." We have our own traditions and holidays. However, it's not like all interfaith and/or cross-cultural relationships are the same. I know families where the mom converted, considers their home to be a Jewish home, and still have a tree because that's how she grew up. I agree that before you get married you should discuss and "negotiate" holidays and religious upbringing. If husband wants kids to be Jewish and you are not going to convert, he has to be the laboring oar- figure out joining a synagouge, sign up for religious school, do the holidays, etc. If you also want to have a Christmas tree to honor your family's traditions, I would discuss that now. |
This is not true at all. We are a mixed family. I am Jewish, my husband is Christian. My child is Jewish, without question. I am uncomfortable with a tree but put one up for one night for my husband. If he wants it longer he can deal with it (has yet to in the many years of marriage). We are not religious nor do we practice much. You sound anti-semetic. |
|
You need to be aware that many Jewish people are not comfortable with having non-Jewish symbols -such as as Christmas trees- in the house. You as a non-Jew, might be open to adopting And Jewish people are not open and accepting of others in that way. Two people with different backgrounds could get married and share their "culture" but Jewish people can not.
Some do. I (an in married Jew) do not necessarily think its a great idea, but clearly some people do it. They feel they are the "chosen" ones. It says so in the bible. Christianity decided at some point that "chosen Israel" meant the Church, not the Jewish people, but you can hardly fault Jews for not adopting that POV. Note of course what we are chosen for is merely to follow the laws of the Torah, nothing else. Note also that some Reform Jews, and Reconstructionists in general do not believe in the doctrine of chosenness. They will always help out a Jewish person before a non Jew. Right now I think its important that we help out muslims, and hispanic immigrants. Not all Jews share my view on that, but quite a bunch do. If you question this they will call you anti-Semetic. |
|
If you question this they will call you anti-Semetic.
Er, antisemitic. One "e". And yeah, you sure do sound like one. But since this is DCUM, you could just be an all around crank. |