Crazy to move from BCC cluster ES to Janney/Deal/Wilson for schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

[Anonymous]

OP here. This thread seems to have gone off the rails on the typical issues every DCUM thread does.

First, I want to thank everyone for their sincere responses. I did not know for example that there were scheduled days for tours for prospective families in DCPS. I will definitely be looking into that.

Second, I want to thank the people who responded that there was good international diversity at Janney in the younger grades, where my DC is. That is important to know and in line with our current experience in MCPS, which is comforting. This type of information does not typically come out in the stats and provides a richer understanding of the underlying dynamics at the school.

Third, I want to also thank the people who have responded who made similar moves from MCPS to DCPS. Your responses have been invaluable and support my hypothesis that there is a disconnect between current reputations, educational quality and outcomes.

Fourth, I just want to address the people who ask "why Janney?" We currently live in an edge community near downtown Bethesda with easy access to the Red Line and amenities. We also have a yard and off-street parking. For our family, we would basically be looking to sell our house at its current value and buy a house in DC with similar amenities at the same value. Homes in AU Park/Tenley sell at the same price level, provide similar amenities that we are accustomed to now and wouldn't want to give up, with the hopeful benefits of less crowded schools, sidewalks, more control over development, and a shorter commute with more commuting options if Metro ever disintegrates.

On top of that, it is just my hunch that DC will continue an upward trajectory while MoCo will continue a downward trajectory. So a home in NW DC feels like a much safer investment over the long term, particularly if the schools in NW DC are also no worse and perhaps even better in some ways as many have explained. The tuition assistance grant is also a big bonus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

What makes you think that Janney or Upper NW kids more generally have never encountered minorities outside of a service capacity? How is that even possible in this city? Certainly not true for my kids, who have a racially diverse group of friends.

[Anonymous]

Op, I agree about the trajectory of DC vs. MoCo. However, keep in mind that the combo of a great elementary school that most kids in the neighborhood attend (vs. private or charter), low inventory, suburban feel, and metro access means that there is keen competition for homes zoned for Janney--take a look at some of the recent AU Park threads over in Real Estate. Actually, all neighborhoods zoned for Deal/Wilson are hot markets. In addition to a little bit more diversity, you may want to consider casting a wider net during your home search, given the competition in AU Park and other areas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't underestimate how great it will be when your middle-schooler can get himself/herself to some after-school activities, orthodontist appts., etc., via bus/Metro, without relying on someone driving them there.

I really don't think NW DC is generally more walkable or urban than inner MoCo. Sure there are are areas in either that are more or less walkable but it's no more likely that an orthodontist requires a car for kid going to BCC than one going to Wilson.

OP here. If an area doesn't have sidewalks in my book it isn't walkable. 95% of NW DC has sidewalks. Cross western venue and maybe it's 50% depending on how you define inner suburbs. Our neighborhood thankfully has sidewalks even Edgemoor is 50/50 and E. Bethesda is like 20%. Being close to downtown Bethesda has more advantages than NW DC with activities like 2 movie theatres, Roundhouse theatre, Imagination Stge, Art Works, and we have a Y very close by. But, right now I just don't feel like the trade offs between that, the pace of development, and over crowded schools seems like it's worth it.

And to answer some other PPs, I actually grew up in a city going to inner city schools during the 80s. I saw a kid get stabbed first hand in the 6th grade. In HS we had crips that sold crack cocaine. I saw many kids make bad choices, myself included on occasion. But thankfully we still had tracking back then so the kids that were motivated to learn could and the ones that weren't didn't have to. I would also like to say in case anyone has any ideas, that my family is interracial and DH is black. For me it is not about race but about having a stable community and a quality school. Diversity was actually one of the reasons we picked our ES. Moving to a NW DC ES would actually be a step down in diversity for us. But at some point it just feels like basic physics and common sense need to take over.

OP, have you considered what it might be like for your child at a school like Janney where he's one of the few black kids in his cohort (of course, he is biracial, but biracial kids are often perceived as AA)? Janney is undoubtedly an excellent school in many respects, but there are other really good schools that that also feed to Deal and Wilson that have a bit more diversity and where your son won't be a "lonely only."

Of course, this is not to say that issues related to be an only at Janney are inevitable--but perhaps before moving forward, it may not hurt to consider and visit some other schools.

-a biracial parent at another Deal/Wilson feeder

Our black kids go to Janney and have never complained of impostor syndrome or anything. They have made great friends and are happy.

OP here. I have to admit that it is a concern. There are actually very few WASP families at our MCPS. Probably half of the "white" students are jewish, which I think is an advantage and makes the school culturally more diverse for us than if there were more WASPs. Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone, but I have seen groups of Janney kids on the Metro for field trips and it just surprises me how white they are, both in terms of numbers but also culturally. If I could estimate, it will be like 16 WASPs, perhaps 4 jewish students (I don't know), and 2 black students. Why are so many of them blond?

I am sure if I looked up the school data it would be similar to this, with probably surprisingly very few asian families as opposed to what we have at our MCPS ES. The potential alienation does cause a bit of a concern for me and to me this is a big benefit of the BCC cluster: there is no one dominant race/culture. There is just lots of everybody. The problem is that there is also too much of everybody, along with the other issues.

Reading all of the comments, I feel my suspicions are confirmed that DCPS can be just as good if not better, but there are also potentially higher risks of bad outcomes which is true of any urban school system. Socially and diversity wise it would also be a disadvantage, which I already know.

We need to fix up our house and landscaping anyway, so we'll proceed with that. In the meantime, I need to do a bit more research and hopefully I can tour Janney or other NWDC ESs at some point. I'm not sure how much they allow that, as they don't allow any visitors at our ES but who knows.

Janney is actually really internationally diverse, especially in the lowest grades.
I have 3 kids there and my youngest is in 1st grade.
Both this year and last she is one of of only a few Americans in her class and the cohorts are totally different kids (they mix them up each year).
So just based on kids we know 2/5 classes are 80% foreign-born (for lack of a better term). And they don't purposefully put the international students together
so I'd bet the overall percentage in this grade is 50%.
(which in my book is great and a huge benefit of growing up in DC as a 3rd generation American kid).

Yeah, OPs comment was rather surprising given the huge number of international kids at Janney. When my DD was in K at Janney, she faked knowing a second language because so many of her classmates were bilingual or even trilingual.

But OP cares about skin color, not actual diversity. A kid from Peru vs. a kid from the UK vs. a kid from South Korea? None is black, so they must all be the same.

A kid from the UK is not as likely to be racially profiled yet alike gunned down by police. Stop trying to imply that a white UK kid or even white Hispanic kid adds diversity to a school. When they are all looked at, they are seen as one safe majority.

Truly amazing how ignorant you are. Sorry for your sad life.

When was the last time you heard of a white kid from the UK shot and killed by the police? #whiteprivilege

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't underestimate how great it will be when your middle-schooler can get himself/herself to some after-school activities, orthodontist appts., etc., via bus/Metro, without relying on someone driving them there.

I really don't think NW DC is generally more walkable or urban than inner MoCo. Sure there are are areas in either that are more or less walkable but it's no more likely that an orthodontist requires a car for kid going to BCC than one going to Wilson.

OP here. If an area doesn't have sidewalks in my book it isn't walkable. 95% of NW DC has sidewalks. Cross western venue and maybe it's 50% depending on how you define inner suburbs. Our neighborhood thankfully has sidewalks even Edgemoor is 50/50 and E. Bethesda is like 20%. Being close to downtown Bethesda has more advantages than NW DC with activities like 2 movie theatres, Roundhouse theatre, Imagination Stge, Art Works, and we have a Y very close by. But, right now I just don't feel like the trade offs between that, the pace of development, and over crowded schools seems like it's worth it.

And to answer some other PPs, I actually grew up in a city going to inner city schools during the 80s. I saw a kid get stabbed first hand in the 6th grade. In HS we had crips that sold crack cocaine. I saw many kids make bad choices, myself included on occasion. But thankfully we still had tracking back then so the kids that were motivated to learn could and the ones that weren't didn't have to. I would also like to say in case anyone has any ideas, that my family is interracial and DH is black. For me it is not about race but about having a stable community and a quality school. Diversity was actually one of the reasons we picked our ES. Moving to a NW DC ES would actually be a step down in diversity for us. But at some point it just feels like basic physics and common sense need to take over.

OP, have you considered what it might be like for your child at a school like Janney where he's one of the few black kids in his cohort (of course, he is biracial, but biracial kids are often perceived as AA)? Janney is undoubtedly an excellent school in many respects, but there are other really good schools that that also feed to Deal and Wilson that have a bit more diversity and where your son won't be a "lonely only."

Of course, this is not to say that issues related to be an only at Janney are inevitable--but perhaps before moving forward, it may not hurt to consider and visit some other schools.

-a biracial parent at another Deal/Wilson feeder

Our black kids go to Janney and have never complained of impostor syndrome or anything. They have made great friends and are happy.

OP here. I have to admit that it is a concern. There are actually very few WASP families at our MCPS. Probably half of the "white" students are jewish, which I think is an advantage and makes the school culturally more diverse for us than if there were more WASPs. Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone, but I have seen groups of Janney kids on the Metro for field trips and it just surprises me how white they are, both in terms of numbers but also culturally. If I could estimate, it will be like 16 WASPs, perhaps 4 jewish students (I don't know), and 2 black students. Why are so many of them blond?

I am sure if I looked up the school data it would be similar to this, with probably surprisingly very few asian families as opposed to what we have at our MCPS ES. The potential alienation does cause a bit of a concern for me and to me this is a big benefit of the BCC cluster: there is no one dominant race/culture. There is just lots of everybody. The problem is that there is also too much of everybody, along with the other issues.

Reading all of the comments, I feel my suspicions are confirmed that DCPS can be just as good if not better, but there are also potentially higher risks of bad outcomes which is true of any urban school system. Socially and diversity wise it would also be a disadvantage, which I already know.

We need to fix up our house and landscaping anyway, so we'll proceed with that. In the meantime, I need to do a bit more research and hopefully I can tour Janney or other NWDC ESs at some point. I'm not sure how much they allow that, as they don't allow any visitors at our ES but who knows.

Janney is actually really internationally diverse, especially in the lowest grades.
I have 3 kids there and my youngest is in 1st grade.
Both this year and last she is one of of only a few Americans in her class and the cohorts are totally different kids (they mix them up each year).
So just based on kids we know 2/5 classes are 80% foreign-born (for lack of a better term). And they don't purposefully put the international students together
so I'd bet the overall percentage in this grade is 50%.
(which in my book is great and a huge benefit of growing up in DC as a 3rd generation American kid).

Yeah, OPs comment was rather surprising given the huge number of international kids at Janney. When my DD was in K at Janney, she faked knowing a second language because so many of her classmates were bilingual or even trilingual.

But OP cares about skin color, not actual diversity. A kid from Peru vs. a kid from the UK vs. a kid from South Korea? None is black, so they must all be the same.

A kid from the UK is not as likely to be racially profiled yet alike gunned down by police. Stop trying to imply that a white UK kid or even white Hispanic kid adds diversity to a school. When they are all looked at, they are seen as one safe majority.

Truly amazing how ignorant you are. Sorry for your sad life.

When was the last time you heard of a white kid from the UK shot and killed by the police? #whiteprivilege

NP here. The deplorable fact that black men are more likely to be killed by police has literally nothing to do with the question whether OP should choose Janney (or a similarly white school) or one with more racial diversity. So go find another thread for that undoubtedly important discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

Sorry, unless you equate "diverse" with black, this is simply not true. Just compare the demographics of Janney with those of Shepherd:

Janney:

7% Black, non-Hispanic
3% Asian
73% White, non-Hispanic
9% Hispanic/Latino
8% Multiracial

Shepherd:

78% Black, non-Hispanic
9% White, non-Hispanic
8% Hispanic/Latino
4% Multiracial

Janney has more multiracial kids, about the same (but very slightly bigger) amount of Latinos, and it also has a few Asians, which Shepherd entirely lacks. The difference is that Janney's majority group is white, while Shepherd's is black, but Janney's majority is 5 percentage points smaller than Shepherd's. There you have it, and I'm sure one could find other examples.

This is not to say that OP's kid might not feel more demographically comfortable at Shepherd or another school with a larger PoC population. Only she can decide that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

What makes you think that Janney or Upper NW kids more generally have never encountered minorities outside of a service capacity? How is that even possible in this city? Certainly not true for my kids, who have a racially diverse group of friends.

NP. It's definitely possible if you live in Upper NW and don't stray to far or head into MD often. "Never" is dramatic but it is true that in Upper NW that the residents are mostly white with some international, and most of the people of color encountered work in services. I say this as someone who grew up in the the area, attended Murch, Deal and Wilson, am not white, and still live in the city but could never live in that part of town again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

What makes you think that Janney or Upper NW kids more generally have never encountered minorities outside of a service capacity? How is that even possible in this city? Certainly not true for my kids, who have a racially diverse group of friends.

NP. It's definitely possible if you live in Upper NW and don't stray to far or head into MD often. "Never" is dramatic but it is true that in Upper NW that the residents are mostly white with some international, and most of the people of color encountered work in services. I say this as someone who grew up in the the area, attended Murch, Deal and Wilson, am not white, and still live in the city but could never live in that part of town again.

I doubt there are too many who live their lives entirely within the confines of Upper NWDC.

[Anonymous]

Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

Sorry, unless you equate "diverse" with black, this is simply not true. Just compare the demographics of Janney with those of Shepherd:

Janney:

7% Black, non-Hispanic
3% Asian
73% White, non-Hispanic
9% Hispanic/Latino
8% Multiracial

Shepherd:

78% Black, non-Hispanic
9% White, non-Hispanic
8% Hispanic/Latino
4% Multiracial

Janney has more multiracial kids, about the same (but very slightly bigger) amount of Latinos, and it also has a few Asians, which Shepherd entirely lacks. The difference is that Janney's majority group is white, while Shepherd's is black, but Janney's majority is 5 percentage points smaller than Shepherd's. There you have it, and I'm sure one could find other examples.

This is not to say that OP's kid might not feel more demographically comfortable at Shepherd or another school with a larger PoC population. Only she can decide that.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^I wouldn't put it quite as PP did, since I think that international diversity is certainly valuable, but being a visible minority in school is still a different animal.

Indeed, international diversity is real diversity, and to say otherwise betrays a narrow-minded perspective solely focused on race (although even in racial terms, Janney is still more diverse than the vast majority of DCPS schools, which have way more than 70% of one race). That said, I also agree that potentially being the only child of one race in a class can feel problematic. I would hope it wouldn't be at a school like Janney, where the kids are raised to be inclusive, but I understand it is a concern.

Just stop already. Janney is the least racially diverse school in NW. I know that doesn't matter to you, but it is valuable information for many people looking to make a choice about where to send their kids. Also, as literally any PoC will tell you, kids being raised to be "inclusive" but who have never encountered Black or Latino folks outside a service/nanny capacity can still be incredibly cruel, even if they don't mean to be.

What makes you think that Janney or Upper NW kids more generally have never encountered minorities outside of a service capacity? How is that even possible in this city? Certainly not true for my kids, who have a racially diverse group of friends.

NP. It's definitely possible if you live in Upper NW and don't stray to far or head into MD often. "Never" is dramatic but it is true that in Upper NW that the residents are mostly white with some international, and most of the people of color encountered work in services. I say this as someone who grew up in the the area, attended Murch, Deal and Wilson, am not white, and still live in the city but could never live in that part of town again.

You are clueless. Just look at the educators and administrators of the schools you mentioned or are those "service" jobs to you? I tend to think of them as role models for my kids and frankly the most time they spend outside of home is at school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, unless you equate "diverse" with black, this is simply not true. Just compare the demographics of Janney with those of Shepherd:

Janney:

7% Black, non-Hispanic
3% Asian
73% White, non-Hispanic
9% Hispanic/Latino
8% Multiracial

Shepherd:

78% Black, non-Hispanic
9% White, non-Hispanic
8% Hispanic/Latino
4% Multiracial

Janney has more multiracial kids, about the same (but very slightly bigger) amount of Latinos, and it also has a few Asians, which Shepherd entirely lacks. The difference is that Janney's majority group is white, while Shepherd's is black, but Janney's majority is 5 percentage points smaller than Shepherd's. There you have it, and I'm sure one could find other examples.

This is not to say that OP's kid might not feel more demographically comfortable at Shepherd or another school with a larger PoC population. Only she can decide that.

Shepherd is 78% black, sure, but actually has a good amount of international diversity within that population. There's a sizeable Ethiopian population, for example, along with West African, Caribbean, black Latino families, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

The funny thing is that previous PP doesn't realize he's the one living in some little black enclave. Folks...in our country only 10% of people have black skin.