Crazy to move from BCC cluster ES to Janney/Deal/Wilson for schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

The funny thing is that previous PP doesn't realize he's the one living in some little black enclave. Folks...in our country only 10% of people have black skin.

You're an idiot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, unless you equate "diverse" with black, this is simply not true. Just compare the demographics of Janney with those of Shepherd:

Janney:

7% Black, non-Hispanic
3% Asian
73% White, non-Hispanic
9% Hispanic/Latino
8% Multiracial

Shepherd:

78% Black, non-Hispanic
9% White, non-Hispanic
8% Hispanic/Latino
4% Multiracial

Janney has more multiracial kids, about the same (but very slightly bigger) amount of Latinos, and it also has a few Asians, which Shepherd entirely lacks. The difference is that Janney's majority group is white, while Shepherd's is black, but Janney's majority is 5 percentage points smaller than Shepherd's. There you have it, and I'm sure one could find other examples.

This is not to say that OP's kid might not feel more demographically comfortable at Shepherd or another school with a larger PoC population. Only she can decide that.

Shepherd is 78% black, sure, but actually has a good amount of international diversity within that population. There's a sizeable Ethiopian population, for example, along with West African, Caribbean, black Latino families, etc.

I actually have heard about that (I have friends with kids at Shepherd). So both Janney and Shepherd have international diversity, the difference being that Shepherd's international diversity is within its black population. How is that different from having international diversity within Janney's white population? Nobody doubts that Janney is the whitest school in DC (by a few percentage points compared to other WOTP elementaries, which are similar), but it is not the least diverse, neither racially nor culturally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

Asian family zoned for Janney here. Janney has the same demographics as all the N Arlington elementary schools (where we moved from), so I don't know why I don't seem to ever hear these "white enclave" complaints about N Arlington.

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.

DH and I were both in the demographic majority when we were in ES, so we aren't sure what it will be like for our kids to be in such a small minority. I'm following this thread with interest and appreciate everyone's insights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

Asian family zoned for Janney here. Janney has the same demographics as all the N Arlington elementary schools (where we moved from), so I don't know why I don't seem to ever hear these "white enclave" complaints about N Arlington.

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.

DH and I were both in the demographic majority when we were in ES, so we aren't sure what it will be like for our kids to be in such a small minority. I'm following this thread with interest and appreciate everyone's insights.

Fair enough, but it's still not an "enclave". Janney has twice as many biracial students as Shepherd, but just as with Asians the differences in absolute numbers aren't large enough to call either an "enclave" with respect to neighboring schools. "Enclave" denotes that the demographics are significantly different from all surrounding schools/areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:....

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.
.....

Well, the DC population is only 4% Asian, so Janney is not too far off at 3%. Murch is right down the street from Janney and has more than 3x as many Asian students (10%), which is more than double the DC and national representation, due in part to the location of embassies. It's just a boundary quirk. Unlike MoCo, these schools are very close to each other and share some neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, unless you equate "diverse" with black, this is simply not true. Just compare the demographics of Janney with those of Shepherd:

Janney:

7% Black, non-Hispanic
3% Asian
73% White, non-Hispanic
9% Hispanic/Latino
8% Multiracial

Shepherd:

78% Black, non-Hispanic
9% White, non-Hispanic
8% Hispanic/Latino
4% Multiracial

Janney has more multiracial kids, about the same (but very slightly bigger) amount of Latinos, and it also has a few Asians, which Shepherd entirely lacks. The difference is that Janney's majority group is white, while Shepherd's is black, but Janney's majority is 5 percentage points smaller than Shepherd's. There you have it, and I'm sure one could find other examples.

This is not to say that OP's kid might not feel more demographically comfortable at Shepherd or another school with a larger PoC population. Only she can decide that.

Shepherd is 78% black, sure, but actually has a good amount of international diversity within that population. There's a sizeable Ethiopian population, for example, along with West African, Caribbean, black Latino families, etc.

I actually have heard about that (I have friends with kids at Shepherd). So both Janney and Shepherd have international diversity, the difference being that Shepherd's international diversity is within its black population. How is that different from having international diversity within Janney's white population? Nobody doubts that Janney is the whitest school in DC (by a few percentage points compared to other WOTP elementaries, which are similar), but it is not the least diverse, neither racially nor culturally.

If you are looking for more racial diversity as well as SES and international - try looking at Murch. It's a little more brown there which I like. Small class sizes especially right now as renovation is no fun

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

The funny thing is that previous PP doesn't realize he's the one living in some little black enclave. Folks...in our country only 10% of people have black skin.

You're an idiot

You are truly amazing. God, I love diversity.

[Anonymous]

Yes -- some of the houses zones for Murch and Lafayette would be good for you too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I agree about the trajectory of DC vs. MoCo. However, keep in mind that the combo of a great elementary school that most kids in the neighborhood attend (vs. private or charter), low inventory, suburban feel, and metro access means that there is keen competition for homes zoned for Janney--take a look at some of the recent AU Park threads over in Real Estate. Actually, all neighborhoods zoned for Deal/Wilson are hot markets. In addition to a little bit more diversity, you may want to consider casting a wider net during your home search, given the competition in AU Park and other areas.

OP here. Thanks for the sincere response. It is not to brag or anything, but there are actually a couple of very nice and suitable houses for us in AU Park under contract right now that are equivalent or less than our current house, so hot market or not, I think we should be okay. I am also sort of sensing we may be nearing the end of the Obama business cycle/bull market and it seems possible a recession could be soon. In any event, this is a DCPS schools forum so we should focus on that.

Seems that everyone agrees, Janney is good but a little crowded. Deal is great but a little crowded. Wilson is good, but also crowded. Comparatively though, the crowding is nowhere near what we see in MCPS. For example, my ES could be at 120% capacity in two years. DCPS also has teachers and aids in each room and in some cases two certified teachers for the large classes, we don't have this in MCPS at all.

In terms of teaching quality, its a bit apples to oranges. There seems to be agreement that there is a wider skills gaps within each classroom for typical NW DCPS students (most likely related to SES), however MCPS has way more special needs and ESOL kids that hurts overall learning. On top of that, we have Curriculum 2.0 bringing us down, but we also have HGCs if you get in. Probably a bit of a wash. If I had a special needs or ESOL kid though, it seems I would probably rather be in MCPS instead.

Facilities wise, I think MCPS has DCPS beat. Socially and "fit" wise, it is still unknown. So I will need to look into it more, visit the schools and do more research.

Thanks again everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I agree about the trajectory of DC vs. MoCo. However, keep in mind that the combo of a great elementary school that most kids in the neighborhood attend (vs. private or charter), low inventory, suburban feel, and metro access means that there is keen competition for homes zoned for Janney--take a look at some of the recent AU Park threads over in Real Estate. Actually, all neighborhoods zoned for Deal/Wilson are hot markets. In addition to a little bit more diversity, you may want to consider casting a wider net during your home search, given the competition in AU Park and other areas.

OP here. Thanks for the sincere response. It is not to brag or anything, but there are actually a couple of very nice and suitable houses for us in AU Park under contract right now that are equivalent or less than our current house, so hot market or not, I think we should be okay. I am also sort of sensing we may be nearing the end of the Obama business cycle/bull market and it seems possible a recession could be soon. In any event, this is a DCPS schools forum so we should focus on that.

Seems that everyone agrees, Janney is good but a little crowded. Deal is great but a little crowded. Wilson is good, but also crowded. Comparatively though, the crowding is nowhere near what we see in MCPS. For example, my ES could be at 120% capacity in two years. DCPS also has teachers and aids in each room and in some cases two certified teachers for the large classes, we don't have this in MCPS at all.

In terms of teaching quality, its a bit apples to oranges. There seems to be agreement that there is a wider skills gaps within each classroom for typical NW DCPS students (most likely related to SES), however MCPS has way more special needs and ESOL kids that hurts overall learning. On top of that, we have Curriculum 2.0 bringing us down, but we also have HGCs if you get in. Probably a bit of a wash. If I had a special needs or ESOL kid though, it seems I would probably rather be in MCPS instead.

Facilities wise, I think MCPS has DCPS beat. Socially and "fit" wise, it is still unknown. So I will need to look into it more, visit the schools and do more research.

Thanks again everyone.

Janney and Deal are good, Wilson not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

Asian family zoned for Janney here. Janney has the same demographics as all the N Arlington elementary schools (where we moved from), so I don't know why I don't seem to ever hear these "white enclave" complaints about N Arlington.

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.

DH and I were both in the demographic majority when we were in ES, so we aren't sure what it will be like for our kids to be in such a small minority. I'm following this thread with interest and appreciate everyone's insights.

OP here. I am originally from the West Coast, so I do miss having substantial Asian diversity in schools. Therefore it is refreshing to me that our ES has a really high Asian population. Unfortunately I don't think any of the families are SE Asian, but that is probably an SES issue. If it wasn't for the overcrowding and too high number of ESOL students (please don't yell at me), our MCPS ES would probably be perfect in terms of diversity. I think we are all just experimenting and trying to do the best that we can for our kids. Who knows what is right in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

Asian family zoned for Janney here. Janney has the same demographics as all the N Arlington elementary schools (where we moved from), so I don't know why I don't seem to ever hear these "white enclave" complaints about N Arlington.

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.

DH and I were both in the demographic majority when we were in ES, so we aren't sure what it will be like for our kids to be in such a small minority. I'm following this thread with interest and appreciate everyone's insights.

OP here. I am originally from the West Coast, so I do miss having substantial Asian diversity in schools. Therefore it is refreshing to me that our ES has a really high Asian population. Unfortunately I don't think any of the families are SE Asian, but that is probably an SES issue. If it wasn't for the overcrowding and too high number of ESOL students (please don't yell at me), our MCPS ES would probably be perfect in terms of diversity. I think we are all just experimenting and trying to do the best that we can for our kids. Who knows what is right in the end.

I certainly won't yell at you, but will invite you to consider that those ESOL students are the ones bringing actual diversity to the mix these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

Asian family zoned for Janney here. Janney has the same demographics as all the N Arlington elementary schools (where we moved from), so I don't know why I don't seem to ever hear these "white enclave" complaints about N Arlington.

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.

DH and I were both in the demographic majority when we were in ES, so we aren't sure what it will be like for our kids to be in such a small minority. I'm following this thread with interest and appreciate everyone's insights.

OP here. I am originally from the West Coast, so I do miss having substantial Asian diversity in schools. Therefore it is refreshing to me that our ES has a really high Asian population. Unfortunately I don't think any of the families are SE Asian, but that is probably an SES issue. If it wasn't for the overcrowding and too high number of ESOL students (please don't yell at me), our MCPS ES would probably be perfect in terms of diversity. I think we are all just experimenting and trying to do the best that we can for our kids. Who knows what is right in the end.

I certainly won't yell at you, but will invite you to consider that those ESOL students are the ones bringing actual diversity to the mix these days.

OP here. Almost all of the Asian kids are native born. The ESOL kids are from all over: E. Europe, Russia, Spain, Turkey, etc. It does bring diversity yes, but it also slows the class down and causes disruption because they come in and out throughout the day to have separate ESOL instruction at different times. So on the one hand, it's nice. On the other hand, it's also a big problem. There is no easy solution. Mainstreaming ESOL and special needs kids is great for those kids and there are benefits to the other kids too, but it is also not free. There are serious and real downsides. While it is great to be inclusive and we don't want to segregate and stigmatize, there is a balance that is needed in terms of ensuring that the education provided is serving the needs of all students. I am not sure where that balance should be, but the current setup at our ES does leave a lot to be desired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janney is 4% English language learners. That doesn't scream diversity from other countries tires to me unless all the diverse kids you're talking about are from U.K. and Australia which is not likely. Having a parent that was born in Argentina does not make a school international. Stop trying to make Janney what it's not. It's a white enclave, a way for liberal to live in the city without having to encounter specifically black people. And if Janney (and Lafayette) families could have it their way they'd remove Shepherd, Bancroft and OOB feeders too.

I don't think you know what the word "enclave" means. Janney and AU Park are not enclaves. The demographic differences between Janney and other WOTP elementaries are negligible, as are the differences between AU Park and its surrounding neighborhoods as well as the adjoining suburbs. I know you have a particular beef with Janney and AU Park, but they are just not that special.

Asian family zoned for Janney here. Janney has the same demographics as all the N Arlington elementary schools (where we moved from), so I don't know why I don't seem to ever hear these "white enclave" complaints about N Arlington.

I think it is a fair criticism when compared to the MoCo schools though, since even the whitest elementaries in the close-in suburbs all still have twice as many Asians as Janney.

DH and I were both in the demographic majority when we were in ES, so we aren't sure what it will be like for our kids to be in such a small minority. I'm following this thread with interest and appreciate everyone's insights.

OP here. I am originally from the West Coast, so I do miss having substantial Asian diversity in schools. Therefore it is refreshing to me that our ES has a really high Asian population. Unfortunately I don't think any of the families are SE Asian, but that is probably an SES issue. If it wasn't for the overcrowding and too high number of ESOL students (please don't yell at me), our MCPS ES would probably be perfect in terms of diversity. I think we are all just experimenting and trying to do the best that we can for our kids. Who knows what is right in the end.

I certainly won't yell at you, but will invite you to consider that those ESOL students are the ones bringing actual diversity to the mix these days.

OP here. Almost all of the Asian kids are native born. The ESOL kids are from all over: E. Europe, Russia, Spain, Turkey, etc. It does bring diversity yes, but it also slows the class down and causes disruption because they come in and out throughout the day to have separate ESOL instruction at different times. So on the one hand, it's nice. On the other hand, it's also a big problem. There is no easy solution. Mainstreaming ESOL and special needs kids is great for those kids and there are benefits to the other kids too, but it is also not free. There are serious and real downsides. While it is great to be inclusive and we don't want to segregate and stigmatize, there is a balance that is needed in terms of ensuring that the education provided is serving the needs of all students. I am not sure where that balance should be, but the current setup at our ES does leave a lot to be desired.

All that is true.

Having said that, do you realize those are precisely the kind of arguments that whites used in the South to justify why they didn't want blacks in their classrooms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I agree about the trajectory of DC vs. MoCo. However, keep in mind that the combo of a great elementary school that most kids in the neighborhood attend (vs. private or charter), low inventory, suburban feel, and metro access means that there is keen competition for homes zoned for Janney--take a look at some of the recent AU Park threads over in Real Estate. Actually, all neighborhoods zoned for Deal/Wilson are hot markets. In addition to a little bit more diversity, you may want to consider casting a wider net during your home search, given the competition in AU Park and other areas.

OP here. Thanks for the sincere response. It is not to brag or anything, but there are actually a couple of very nice and suitable houses for us in AU Park under contract right now that are equivalent or less than our current house, so hot market or not, I think we should be okay. I am also sort of sensing we may be nearing the end of the Obama business cycle/bull market and it seems possible a recession could be soon. In any event, this is a DCPS schools forum so we should focus on that.

Seems that everyone agrees, Janney is good but a little crowded. Deal is great but a little crowded. Wilson is good, but also crowded. Comparatively though, the crowding is nowhere near what we see in MCPS. For example, my ES could be at 120% capacity in two years. DCPS also has teachers and aids in each room and in some cases two certified teachers for the large classes, we don't have this in MCPS at all.

In terms of teaching quality, its a bit apples to oranges. There seems to be agreement that there is a wider skills gaps within each classroom for typical NW DCPS students (most likely related to SES), however MCPS has way more special needs and ESOL kids that hurts overall learning. On top of that, we have Curriculum 2.0 bringing us down, but we also have HGCs if you get in. Probably a bit of a wash. If I had a special needs or ESOL kid though, it seems I would probably rather be in MCPS instead.

Facilities wise, I think MCPS has DCPS beat. Socially and "fit" wise, it is still unknown. So I will need to look into it more, visit the schools and do more research.

Thanks again everyone.

Remember, your "consensus" comes mostly from dcps parents bc it is the dcps forum. If you posted in md, you would have a different demographic to a degree and you would probably have gotten more stories about people happy to have moved from dcps to moco. Both populations have an interest (conscious and not) to validate their own decisions.

Not necessarily disagreeing with your ultimate conclusions, but not sure that there is really a consensus on any of these issues.