Crazy to move from BCC cluster ES to Janney/Deal/Wilson for schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just me, but as the parent of a young elementary kid and a middle school kid in the BCC catchment, there's no way on earth I'd make this move unless I was capable of paying for private and prepared for the rat race and uncertainty of applying to privates. I know there are loads of legitimate complaints about MCPS, and I agree with many of them. But I work in DC, have many friends and colleagues with kids at Deal and Wilson, and there's simply no comparison with Westland / BCC.

Please understand that this is not an uneducated smear or knock on those schools. I genuinely believe that a smart, well-motivated, well-supported, amazing student can do wonderfully in either school. But I know a few too many first-hand stories about kids who are a lot like mine - good kids, reasonably smart, but not rock star academics, from super engaged families - who wound up having a really rough time in even the best DCPS schools. Mostly just usual rough time, but a few kids who really crashed and burned in ways that are going to be tough to rebound from.

OP, you need to do a lot more due diligence if you're going to make this move. Packing your family up and selling your house because Open House day was a disappointment (yes, it always is, especially for parents of first graders!) is just silly.

OP here, thanks for the feedback. This is very useful and helpful. Could you elaborate more on "crash and burn". Is this like drugs/shoplifting/criminal record type stuff? Or bullying, apprehension, fear, unmotivated, outsider, angst type stuff? Or something entirely different?

You also need to talk about the age of these kids in question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could you do private? Moving is going to cost a lot, for no guarantee that you'll like the schools better.

It's a lot cheaper to move -- even twice! -- than go private.

I think it isn't unlikely she'll move and eventually go private anyway. It would be cheaper to skip the move.

OP here. We have been in our house for a while. Have a ton of equity, plus appreciation. Even after transaction fees would probably come out a bit ahead. Moving and then private is obviously not preferred, but it is not out of the question just probably not within our budget even if we didn't move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just me, but as the parent of a young elementary kid and a middle school kid in the BCC catchment, there's no way on earth I'd make this move unless I was capable of paying for private and prepared for the rat race and uncertainty of applying to privates. I know there are loads of legitimate complaints about MCPS, and I agree with many of them. But I work in DC, have many friends and colleagues with kids at Deal and Wilson, and there's simply no comparison with Westland / BCC.

Please understand that this is not an uneducated smear or knock on those schools. I genuinely believe that a smart, well-motivated, well-supported, amazing student can do wonderfully in either school. But I know a few too many first-hand stories about kids who are a lot like mine - good kids, reasonably smart, but not rock star academics, from super engaged families - who wound up having a really rough time in even the best DCPS schools. Mostly just usual rough time, but a few kids who really crashed and burned in ways that are going to be tough to rebound from.

OP, you need to do a lot more due diligence if you're going to make this move. Packing your family up and selling your house because Open House day was a disappointment (yes, it always is, especially for parents of first graders!) is just silly.

OP here, thanks for the feedback. This is very useful and helpful. Could you elaborate more on "crash and burn". Is this like drugs/shoplifting/criminal record type stuff? Or bullying, apprehension, fear, unmotivated, outsider, angst type stuff? Or something entirely different?

I'm the PP, and I was purposefully vague out of the very tiny possibility one of my colleagues would recognize their kid here. But from the alternatives you present, it's the former not the latter. And yes, I know that can happen in any school. But I know only positive stories from Westland/BCC, whereas I know some genuine horror stories that began at Deal/Wilson. And my overall point is not about one set of anecdotes vs another, but about the serious research that you should do on both systems before deciding that you're going to make such a big change based entirely on schools, and based entirely on the experience of slightly more than one year of having a kid in elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved from another 'W' district to a Deal/Wilson neighborhood, but this was before having school-aged kids. I think more people are considering this due to overcrowding and worsening traffic.

Also, anecdotes aside, PARCC scores are similar for kids in Deal/Wilson feeders vs. nearby MoCo schools--maybe someone else can find and link to the appropriate thread.

Is this it? White DC students at 4th and 8th grade have best in nation scores in Math and Reading.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/statecomparisons/withinyear.aspx?usrSelections=0%2cMAT%2c1%2c0%2cwithin%2c0%2c0

Even if you control for the fact that the MD score includes western MD and the Eastern Shore, kids attending NW DC schools are doing extremely well on standardized tests. While nothing obvious is going wrong in MCPS per se, things are going right in a select few DC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just me, but as the parent of a young elementary kid and a middle school kid in the BCC catchment, there's no way on earth I'd make this move unless I was capable of paying for private and prepared for the rat race and uncertainty of applying to privates. I know there are loads of legitimate complaints about MCPS, and I agree with many of them. But I work in DC, have many friends and colleagues with kids at Deal and Wilson, and there's simply no comparison with Westland / BCC.

Please understand that this is not an uneducated smear or knock on those schools. I genuinely believe that a smart, well-motivated, well-supported, amazing student can do wonderfully in either school. But I know a few too many first-hand stories about kids who are a lot like mine - good kids, reasonably smart, but not rock star academics, from super engaged families - who wound up having a really rough time in even the best DCPS schools. Mostly just usual rough time, but a few kids who really crashed and burned in ways that are going to be tough to rebound from.

OP, you need to do a lot more due diligence if you're going to make this move. Packing your family up and selling your house because Open House day was a disappointment (yes, it always is, especially for parents of first graders!) is just silly.

OP here, thanks for the feedback. This is very useful and helpful. Could you elaborate more on "crash and burn". Is this like drugs/shoplifting/criminal record type stuff? Or bullying, apprehension, fear, unmotivated, outsider, angst type stuff? Or something entirely different?

I'm the PP, and I was purposefully vague out of the very tiny possibility one of my colleagues would recognize their kid here. But from the alternatives you present, it's the former not the latter. And yes, I know that can happen in any school. But I know only positive stories from Westland/BCC, whereas I know some genuine horror stories that began at Deal/Wilson. And my overall point is not about one set of anecdotes vs another, but about the serious research that you should do on both systems before deciding that you're going to make such a big change based entirely on schools, and based entirely on the experience of slightly more than one year of having a kid in elementary.

OP here. Thanks in all sincerity for the reply. It has given me a lot to consider.

[Anonymous]

OP- Don't let yourself be swayed one way or the other by an anecdote. Go -- tour the schools. Look at the stats, consider your house, how urban or suburban you want to be, etc. Though I am a DCPS cheerleader, I also would take all the MoCo fear mongering with a grain of salt. Hyperbole is easy in everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could you do private? Moving is going to cost a lot, for no guarantee that you'll like the schools better.

It's a lot cheaper to move -- even twice! -- than go private.

I think it isn't unlikely she'll move and eventually go private anyway. It would be cheaper to skip the move.

OP here. We have been in our house for a while. Have a ton of equity, plus appreciation. Even after transaction fees would probably come out a bit ahead. Moving and then private is obviously not preferred, but it is not out of the question just probably not within our budget even if we didn't move.

I am picky about schools, so I'm not being dismissive, but if you did a couple years of private (2nd & 3rd) somewhere with smaller classes, you might be happier in Moco in 4th and onward than DCPS. First grade is so early in the journey (much less Oct of first grade!) to make this kind of decision. If you want to move anyway, maybe it makes sense.

[Anonymous]

I did this. We bought a house in Chevy Chase, lived there until DC turned 4, rented CCMD house out, bought a house in AU Park and DC had PK-4 and is currently in elementary school.

We plan on renting out the AU park house if possible and moving back to CCMD for middle and high school. Moving was sort of a pain but we hired movers and packers and local moves are easy compared to the LA-DC areas move we made when we initially got here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just me, but as the parent of a young elementary kid and a middle school kid in the BCC catchment, there's no way on earth I'd make this move unless I was capable of paying for private and prepared for the rat race and uncertainty of applying to privates. I know there are loads of legitimate complaints about MCPS, and I agree with many of them. But I work in DC, have many friends and colleagues with kids at Deal and Wilson, and there's simply no comparison with Westland / BCC.

Please understand that this is not an uneducated smear or knock on those schools. I genuinely believe that a smart, well-motivated, well-supported, amazing student can do wonderfully in either school. But I know a few too many first-hand stories about kids who are a lot like mine - good kids, reasonably smart, but not rock star academics, from super engaged families - who wound up having a really rough time in even the best DCPS schools. Mostly just usual rough time, but a few kids who really crashed and burned in ways that are going to be tough to rebound from.

OP, you need to do a lot more due diligence if you're going to make this move. Packing your family up and selling your house because Open House day was a disappointment (yes, it always is, especially for parents of first graders!) is just silly.

OP here, thanks for the feedback. This is very useful and helpful. Could you elaborate more on "crash and burn". Is this like drugs/shoplifting/criminal record type stuff? Or bullying, apprehension, fear, unmotivated, outsider, angst type stuff? Or something entirely different?

I'm the PP, and I was purposefully vague out of the very tiny possibility one of my colleagues would recognize their kid here. But from the alternatives you present, it's the former not the latter. And yes, I know that can happen in any school. But I know only positive stories from Westland/BCC, whereas I know some genuine horror stories that began at Deal/Wilson. And my overall point is not about one set of anecdotes vs another, but about the serious research that you should do on both systems before deciding that you're going to make such a big change based entirely on schools, and based entirely on the experience of slightly more than one year of having a kid in elementary.

OP here. Thanks in all sincerity for the reply. It has given me a lot to consider.

OP, as someone who moved a kid from Pyle and a kid from Whitman to Deal and Wilson I can assure you that the PP has zero ability to make a comparison. Not Westland/BC but quite similar.

Deal wins hands down. Not even comparable -- at all levels. Academics are top notch, teachers are great, facilities are amazing.

Whitman has the edge on academics, just barely. But socially the environment at Wilson is much better. I call it the Bethesda Brat syndrome (of which I was one). You don't have that at Wilson, sure there are brat kids and rough kids but the attitude is far less peer pressured at Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Since you have young kids and are worried about overcrowding, I'd look closely at the chains about overcrowding at Janney. You may not have a bunch of new development, but you do have a bumper crop of folks using the school and no room to expand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since you have young kids and are worried about overcrowding, I'd look closely at the chains about overcrowding at Janney. You may not have a bunch of new development, but you do have a bumper crop of folks using the school and no room to expand.

We moved from the BES/Westland/BCC district to Janney/Deal/Wilson and have been very pleased to date. However, Janney is significantly larger than when my DC attended. If crowding is a major concern, I'd definitely ask the school about class size projections. You might want to look at schools in the Murch, Hearst or Lafayette catchments to see what their average class sizes are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could you do private? Moving is going to cost a lot, for no guarantee that you'll like the schools better.

It's a lot cheaper to move -- even twice! -- than go private.

+1.

OP could do Janney and Deal, and then move up for a better HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just me, but as the parent of a young elementary kid and a middle school kid in the BCC catchment, there's no way on earth I'd make this move unless I was capable of paying for private and prepared for the rat race and uncertainty of applying to privates. I know there are loads of legitimate complaints about MCPS, and I agree with many of them. But I work in DC, have many friends and colleagues with kids at Deal and Wilson, and there's simply no comparison with Westland / BCC.

Please understand that this is not an uneducated smear or knock on those schools. I genuinely believe that a smart, well-motivated, well-supported, amazing student can do wonderfully in either school. But I know a few too many first-hand stories about kids who are a lot like mine - good kids, reasonably smart, but not rock star academics, from super engaged families - who wound up having a really rough time in even the best DCPS schools. Mostly just usual rough time, but a few kids who really crashed and burned in ways that are going to be tough to rebound from.

OP, you need to do a lot more due diligence if you're going to make this move. Packing your family up and selling your house because Open House day was a disappointment (yes, it always is, especially for parents of first graders!) is just silly.

OP here, thanks for the feedback. This is very useful and helpful. Could you elaborate more on "crash and burn". Is this like drugs/shoplifting/criminal record type stuff? Or bullying, apprehension, fear, unmotivated, outsider, angst type stuff? Or something entirely different?

I'm the PP, and I was purposefully vague out of the very tiny possibility one of my colleagues would recognize their kid here. But from the alternatives you present, it's the former not the latter. And yes, I know that can happen in any school. But I know only positive stories from Westland/BCC, whereas I know some genuine horror stories that began at Deal/Wilson. And my overall point is not about one set of anecdotes vs another, but about the serious research that you should do on both systems before deciding that you're going to make such a big change based entirely on schools, and based entirely on the experience of slightly more than one year of having a kid in elementary.

OP here. Thanks in all sincerity for the reply. It has given me a lot to consider.

OP, as someone who moved a kid from Pyle and a kid from Whitman to Deal and Wilson I can assure you that the PP has zero ability to make a comparison. Not Westland/BC but quite similar.

Deal wins hands down. Not even comparable -- at all levels. Academics are top notch, teachers are great, facilities are amazing.

Whitman has the edge on academics, just barely. But socially the environment at Wilson is much better. I call it the Bethesda Brat syndrome (of which I was one). You don't have that at Wilson, sure there are brat kids and rough kids but the attitude is far less peer pressured at Wilson.

Also consider that OP has a way to go before her kid hits Wilson. The recent boundary change will reduce the number of trouble makers at the school in the long run.

[Anonymous]

We always assumed we would move to MoCo at some point. Now have kids at Deal and are so happy we never moved. I know Wilson isn't perfect but it's our plan. And at our WOTP elementary school our kids never had a class bigger than 23.

But as other PPs have suggested, since your kids are young you should look at the demographics. Houses in our neighborhood are selling like hotcakes and there are people with strollers everywhere. And Deal is already big.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- Don't let yourself be swayed one way or the other by an anecdote. Go -- tour the schools. Look at the stats, consider your house, how urban or suburban you want to be, etc. Though I am a DCPS cheerleader, I also would take all the MoCo fear mongering with a grain of salt. Hyperbole is easy in everything.

OP here. You are correct that I do need to do more research before taking such drastic measures, but since DC is in MCPS at the moment I do have my own issues/observations.

What concerns me most about MCPS is trajectory. My impression is that MoCo economically and MCPS academically both probably peaked in the late 90's and mid 00's. I do have anxiety about the future of MoCo and I think a lot of it is justified. In some ways, oddly, moving to NW DC feels like moving to a gated community/planned community, like Columbia, MD where you can feel assured that no one will build a 400-unit apartment building down the street from your house. Right now it feels a lot like it is coasting off that momentum, both on behalf of the school/government and also increasingly the parents.

Sure our PTA is active and we have tons of volunteers, but over one year the number of families that joined the PTA and paid a paltry fee decreased by 10% while the school population grew. These are not good signs and these is the cohort my DC will be in school with for 11 more years if we stay. A lot of the anecdotes compare current HS cohorts to their contemporaries between MCPS and DCPS.

I am trying to also think ahead 10 years from now based on the trends I am seeing now and it concerns me greatly. What I think is happening now is that instead of these MCPS schools being good because they are co-located in areas where parents are well educated and dedicated to their child's education, I sense an increase in parents who are here just because they think it is supposed to be the best not realizing that what happens in the classroom is only half of the battle. Add to that class sizes of 30, along with (and please don't hate me for saying this) with 1/3 of the class ESOL students and another 1/10 special needs, the act of teaching a coherent lesson plan is impossible.

What DCPS presents to me is the idea/potential of having a class with 25 kids, a teacher AND an aid, with 75% of the kids at or above grade level and maybe one or two trouble makers. That to me is what public education is supposed to be and does not seem like too much of an ask. Unfortunately this scenario is too much of an ask for MCPS.

I know I may sound to some like a bit of a jerk. I know there is also a lot of grass-is-greenerism running through my thought processes right now. But I have a colleague who has a child at Lafayette who says its fantastic. I have another colleague with a child that went through Deal and is now at Wilson and has nothing but amazing things to say. I just have a major hunch that MCPS is for the most part riding on reputation and that time's up on MoCo.