Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist

[Anonymous]

"Anonymous wrote:
^ no I think there is plenty they could do if they wanted to make it more equitable:
1) post card flyers to all home addresses in the county
2) change the deadline of the lottery or of the general registration so that you can get info on the lottery and apply when doing the much more widelt publicized standard registration
3) elimimate sibling preference
4) discontinue the immersion preference to continue through MS and HS outside the home zone.

All of these would be useful steps to making it a slightly more equitable to poor a huge benefit on one kid when others get zip on the language side.


1) other poster beat me to it but cry about budgeting issues and then waste funds mailing to every address in the county?
2) changing the deadline could be an option but I'm not sure it would help. If you don't know in April why would you know in July? Part of the reason it's done early is so that there is enough time prior to the start of school to go through the selection process as many apply but back out. It might work if standard registration was earlier and entrance into the lottery was tied to it.
3) I agree sibling preference should be eliminated.
4) there is no immersion preference into high school. You must do a COSA. Middle school continuation is a no brainer. Are you suggesting lottery starts over with kids that are not fluent at that age? I'm a 100% positive though that if you have language skills you can easily get in at the middle school level."

1) I have not continue complained about cost. I highly doubt the post cards would be a huge expense but if they are then changing the registration times would work.
2) the problem is K registration IS heavily publicized and the date is months after the lottery deadline. Those should be flipped so that it is easy to know about and submit to the lottery not something people are not even aware of until the real registration when it is too late.
3) great. We agree sibling preference is not fair.
4) according to PPs the program is often a basis for getting in to another HS. Whether it is that COSAs are regularly granted after years in immersion or it is a direct part of immersion the result is the same ticket out of a crappy HS based solely on winning a lottery prior to K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Hostile crowd dcum.

The program is the equivalent of celebrating the OnePercenters.

MCPS could level the playing field, but as liberal as it thinks it is this instutionaluzed classism will persist.

Let's spinoff: West mcps. East mcps. Very different budgeting.

Admission-by-lottery immersion programs in Montgomery County Public Schools. The one percent. One of these things is not like the other!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.

At Rolling Terrace ES, for example!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous wrote:
^ no I think there is plenty they could do if they wanted to make it more equitable:
1) post card flyers to all home addresses in the county
2) change the deadline of the lottery or of the general registration so that you can get info on the lottery and apply when doing the much more widelt publicized standard registration
3) elimimate sibling preference
4) discontinue the immersion preference to continue through MS and HS outside the home zone.

All of these would be useful steps to making it a slightly more equitable to poor a huge benefit on one kid when others get zip on the language side.


1) other poster beat me to it but cry about budgeting issues and then waste funds mailing to every address in the county?
2) changing the deadline could be an option but I'm not sure it would help. If you don't know in April why would you know in July? Part of the reason it's done early is so that there is enough time prior to the start of school to go through the selection process as many apply but back out. It might work if standard registration was earlier and entrance into the lottery was tied to it.
3) I agree sibling preference should be eliminated.
4) there is no immersion preference into high school. You must do a COSA. Middle school continuation is a no brainer. Are you suggesting lottery starts over with kids that are not fluent at that age? I'm a 100% positive though that if you have language skills you can easily get in at the middle school level."

1) I have not continue complained about cost. I highly doubt the post cards would be a huge expense but if they are then changing the registration times would work.
2) the problem is K registration IS heavily publicized and the date is months after the lottery deadline. Those should be flipped so that it is easy to know about and submit to the lottery not something people are not even aware of until the real registration when it is too late.
3) great. We agree sibling preference is not fair.
4) according to PPs the program is often a basis for getting in to another HS. Whether it is that COSAs are regularly granted after years in immersion or it is a direct part of immersion the result is the same ticket out of a crappy HS based solely on winning a lottery prior to K.

Out of crappy high school you say.....

rolling terrace, burnt mills, Sligo creek- everyone ends with going back to homeschool or Down county consortium
Maryvale- Gaithersburg hs or Down county consortium
Potomac, college gardens- Pretty sure they make you go back to homeschool
Rock creek forest- bcc

So 1 out the 7 programs lead to what could be considered a desirable high school. And because of this one case the other six who continue to "crappy high schools " even though they won the immersion lottery everyone is trying to get out of their home cluster...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.

At Rolling Terrace ES, for example!

Nope, full of minorities. Half the people at rolling terrace immersion come from Spanish backgrounds...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous wrote:
^ no I think there is plenty they could do if they wanted to make it more equitable:
1) post card flyers to all home addresses in the county
2) change the deadline of the lottery or of the general registration so that you can get info on the lottery and apply when doing the much more widelt publicized standard registration
3) elimimate sibling preference
4) discontinue the immersion preference to continue through MS and HS outside the home zone.

All of these would be useful steps to making it a slightly more equitable to poor a huge benefit on one kid when others get zip on the language side.


1) other poster beat me to it but cry about budgeting issues and then waste funds mailing to every address in the county?
2) changing the deadline could be an option but I'm not sure it would help. If you don't know in April why would you know in July? Part of the reason it's done early is so that there is enough time prior to the start of school to go through the selection process as many apply but back out. It might work if standard registration was earlier and entrance into the lottery was tied to it.
3) I agree sibling preference should be eliminated.
4) there is no immersion preference into high school. You must do a COSA. Middle school continuation is a no brainer. Are you suggesting lottery starts over with kids that are not fluent at that age? I'm a 100% positive though that if you have language skills you can easily get in at the middle school level."

1) I have not continue complained about cost. I highly doubt the post cards would be a huge expense but if they are then changing the registration times would work.
2) the problem is K registration IS heavily publicized and the date is months after the lottery deadline. Those should be flipped so that it is easy to know about and submit to the lottery not something people are not even aware of until the real registration when it is too late.
3) great. We agree sibling preference is not fair.
4) according to PPs the program is often a basis for getting in to another HS. Whether it is that COSAs are regularly granted after years in immersion or it is a direct part of immersion the result is the same ticket out of a crappy HS based solely on winning a lottery prior to K.

Re postcard expense -- there are 357,000+ households in MOCO. Postcards cost about 40 cents just to mail not to mention the cost of printing, addressing and staff time to prepare. as A frame of reference annual births in the county are about 13,000, so the cohort of kids entering K in any one year is a small fraction of the total number of households. Mailing every single MOCO household doesn't seem like a very efficient use of funds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.

At Rolling Terrace ES, for example!

Nope, full of minorities. Half the people at rolling terrace immersion come from Spanish backgrounds...

But two-thirds of the students at Rolling Terrace overall are Hispanic! This is clear proof that immersion programs are for the one percent.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02771.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.

At Rolling Terrace ES, for example!

Nope, full of minorities. Half the people at rolling terrace immersion come from Spanish backgrounds...

But two-thirds of the students at Rolling Terrace overall are Hispanic! This is clear proof that immersion programs are for the one percent.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02771.pdf

First it's all white, then it's conceded that maybe that's not true after someone whose kid attends the school counters the argument, finally half Hispanic ( not even counting other groups isn't good enough...

Ever thought that many of the families don't need immersion because their children are already fluent..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

First it's all white, then it's conceded that maybe that's not true after someone whose kid attends the school counters the argument, finally half Hispanic ( not even counting other groups isn't good enough...

Ever thought that many of the families don't need immersion because their children are already fluent..

It's possible that your irony meter is malfunctioning.

Either that, or it's another demonstration of Poe's Law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

First it's all white, then it's conceded that maybe that's not true after someone whose kid attends the school counters the argument, finally half Hispanic ( not even counting other groups isn't good enough...

Ever thought that many of the families don't need immersion because their children are already fluent..

It's possible that your irony meter is malfunctioning.

Either that, or it's another demonstration of Poe's Law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.

At Rolling Terrace ES, for example!

Nope, full of minorities. Half the people at rolling terrace immersion come from Spanish backgrounds...

Actually, Latin American backgrounds. Central American, to be specific. Few if any Spaniards at Rolling Terrace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.

At Rolling Terrace ES, for example!

Nope, full of minorities. Half the people at rolling terrace immersion come from Spanish backgrounds...

But two-thirds of the students at Rolling Terrace overall are Hispanic! This is clear proof that immersion programs are for the one percent.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02771.pdf

First it's all white, then it's conceded that maybe that's not true after someone whose kid attends the school counters the argument, finally half Hispanic ( not even counting other groups isn't good enough...

Ever thought that many of the families don't need immersion because their children are already fluent..

Fluent speaking sure. Can the non-immersion RTES kids _read_ in Spanish. If they can it's not learned at school, and A good portion of the low-income parents can't read in their native language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous wrote:
^ no I think there is plenty they could do if they wanted to make it more equitable:
1) post card flyers to all home addresses in the county
2) change the deadline of the lottery or of the general registration so that you can get info on the lottery and apply when doing the much more widelt publicized standard registration
3) elimimate sibling preference
4) discontinue the immersion preference to continue through MS and HS outside the home zone.

All of these would be useful steps to making it a slightly more equitable to poor a huge benefit on one kid when others get zip on the language side.


1) other poster beat me to it but cry about budgeting issues and then waste funds mailing to every address in the county?
2) changing the deadline could be an option but I'm not sure it would help. If you don't know in April why would you know in July? Part of the reason it's done early is so that there is enough time prior to the start of school to go through the selection process as many apply but back out. It might work if standard registration was earlier and entrance into the lottery was tied to it.
3) I agree sibling preference should be eliminated.
4) there is no immersion preference into high school. You must do a COSA. Middle school continuation is a no brainer. Are you suggesting lottery starts over with kids that are not fluent at that age? I'm a 100% positive though that if you have language skills you can easily get in at the middle school level."

1) I have not continue complained about cost. I highly doubt the post cards would be a huge expense but if they are then changing the registration times would work.
2) the problem is K registration IS heavily publicized and the date is months after the lottery deadline. Those should be flipped so that it is easy to know about and submit to the lottery not something people are not even aware of until the real registration when it is too late.
3) great. We agree sibling preference is not fair.
4) according to PPs the program is often a basis for getting in to another HS. Whether it is that COSAs are regularly granted after years in immersion or it is a direct part of immersion the result is the same ticket out of a crappy HS based solely on winning a lottery prior to K.

Out of crappy high school you say.....

rolling terrace, burnt mills, Sligo creek- everyone ends with going back to homeschool or Down county consortium
Maryvale- Gaithersburg hs or Down county consortium
Potomac, college gardens- Pretty sure they make you go back to homeschool
Rock creek forest- bcc

So 1 out the 7 programs lead to what could be considered a desirable high school. And because of this one case the other six who continue to "crappy high schools " even though they won the immersion lottery everyone is trying to get out of their home cluster...

College Gardens Chinese immersion kids get to continue on to Hoover MS then to the rich whitey high school next door, I forget the name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I know of at least 3 families within 3 blocks of our house that applied to and were accepted at immersion programs within the past 3 years. The ONLY reason they applied was because the neighborhood school is not considered a great option. Each of these families expressed concern about their children adjusting to the language, and it was viewed almost as a sacrifice/risk, but one that was preferable to attending the neighborhood school. I spoke with all of them, because it was our plan as well. I was told, and I quote "we looked at [local school] and we just couldn't do it." This isn't everyone, but this is a very real dynamic in some neighborhoods in Silver Spring. I know there are other reasons, but in some neighborhoods where the parents have decided for whatever reason that they don't have faith in their assigned school, they apply to the lottery and hope for a good outcome. Anyone who thinks this isn't a dynamic and is just some random and unconfirmed theory should just come to our hood and talk to the parents, especially those who did NOT get in! You'll get an earful about the mass exodus from our local school (ours being one of the poorest in the county) and how effectively and completely it diminishes middle class enrollment at the local school.

So should MCPS get rid of the immersion programs on grounds that some people enter the lottery for the immersion programs with the goal of avoiding their neighborhood school?

That seems to be OP's philosophy. F*ck everyone, so that the poor/ distracted/ busy don't fall behind.

Not PP but I have to wonder is it fair that the quality of education is based on a lottery? That seems to be the case in some areas of the county. If someone from a W cluster applies but does not get in they still get to go to their sought after school. In other clusters, like the one PP is referring to if families do not get in the lottery, their essentially stuck with a substandard school. Yes, they can move if they can afford it but that's not an option in a lot of cases. I don't have a solution, but it seems like a question worth asking. And no, I don't think they should get rid of the immersion programs.

[Anonymous]

They aren't substandards schools though - they're schools with low-performing students. In general, a well-cared for middle class child's test scores won't be affected by the school they attend. If it were a problem with the instruction that would not be true.