Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist

[Anonymous]

Great. Stale data from 2013.

[Anonymous]

I don't know that we will have to worry about the language immersion programs much longer - Taylor is doing away with every high quality program that we have. I think the CES programs and language immersion programs will be on the chopping block in a couple of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great. Stale data from 2013.

The data was from 2014 and the article was published in 2016.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure most apply to these programs for the language immersion experience, I wonder how many apply for other reasons--capped class size, access to the different "pyramid" an earlier poster mentioned, etc. In this case their main goal is to escape the "general MCPS" system rather than the language immersion (though that's what they accept for the benefits they perceive).

I would love to know this information. It would put the question to rest about whether all families are trying to escape their "bad" school pyramid for a "good" one. We are only in K, so we haven't gotten to know a lot of the families yet, but the ones we do know have entered the program for the language benefits and not the school pyramid. Again, we aren't at RCF, so the proportion of families who apply for the school pyramid may be different there.

I do know one family who entered the lottery to escape a perceived bad elementary. They are at Maryvale FI now. It does happen. I don't think it happens to the extent that many DCUM posters think it does.

Maybe those running the evaluation of choice programs in MCPS should do the survey of current parents or even parents that applied for the immersion lottery and didn't get in to see how many applied for benefits other than language.

No one admits that they apply to escape their own school, at least not directly. I can tell you that are RCF a really high number of the immersion students live in the DCC. Take that for what you will.

Maybe they would admit it in an anonymous survey.

We know one family at RCF who is planning on bringing their kid back to their home school for HS b/c they prefer the DCC over their perception of the BCC. So not all families from the DCC are going to RCF for the pyramid. Some (hopefully most) really do think full Spanish immersion is good for language development.

Immersion participation has no impact on high school placement. You can attend the immersion program through middle school, then you return to your home high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"This whole argument against immersion is arguing from the position of the haves being content in there situation and not wanting any others in there zone"

Nope. Some of us are also in DCC but find it extremely unfair that neighbors that knew about the program in time to apply won a huge lottery ticket for their entire family's education in MCPS. it is just extremely unfair.

I believe this is why MCPS already did away with sibling preference. This is no longer how the immersion lotteries work, and I think they did away with this for equity reasons. There are still a few kids who get in if a sibling was enrolled prior to 2017 (I think?) but that number is dwindling. It is very common for one family to have a kid who got in and kids who did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great. Stale data from 2013.

The data was from 2014 and the article was published in 2016.

....and this thread is from 2015. Yes, there used to be a pretty significant issue with the language immersion programs, and it's not wrong to say class was part of the issue. At the time this thread was started, immersion programs were functionally word-of-mouth. By the time most families found out about the lottery, it had already taken place. The big public push for kindy registration is in the spring, but you needed to have your kid registered for kindergarten and in the lottery by late winter.

Later, MCPS changed it to align, which made a difference.

[Anonymous]

I’m a DCC parent whose kids (plural) went to RCF. We chose it because of the language opportunity and it was close to our house. None of my kids went on to Westland or BCC because I wanted their peer group to be from our neighborhood and didn’t want them to feel “poor” if they went to school with kids who vacation in Aspen etc. Plus there wasnt much of an immersion program past fifth grade anyway. Just a data point- there were others of us who didn’t choose RCF SI just to escape our home school, and didn’t take anyone’s spot in MS or HS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a DCC parent whose kids (plural) went to RCF. We chose it because of the language opportunity and it was close to our house. None of my kids went on to Westland or BCC because I wanted their peer group to be from our neighborhood and didn’t want them to feel “poor” if they went to school with kids who vacation in Aspen etc. Plus there wasnt much of an immersion program past fifth grade anyway. Just a data point- there were others of us who didn’t choose RCF SI just to escape our home school, and didn’t take anyone’s spot in MS or HS!

Yah but not many. Most used it as an opt out of silver spring schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a DCC parent whose kids (plural) went to RCF. We chose it because of the language opportunity and it was close to our house. None of my kids went on to Westland or BCC because I wanted their peer group to be from our neighborhood and didn’t want them to feel “poor” if they went to school with kids who vacation in Aspen etc. Plus there wasnt much of an immersion program past fifth grade anyway. Just a data point- there were others of us who didn’t choose RCF SI just to escape our home school, and didn’t take anyone’s spot in MS or HS!

LOL at the notion that all Westland / BCC kids vacation in Aspen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a DCC parent whose kids (plural) went to RCF. We chose it because of the language opportunity and it was close to our house. None of my kids went on to Westland or BCC because I wanted their peer group to be from our neighborhood and didn’t want them to feel “poor” if they went to school with kids who vacation in Aspen etc. Plus there wasnt much of an immersion program past fifth grade anyway. Just a data point- there were others of us who didn’t choose RCF SI just to escape our home school, and didn’t take anyone’s spot in MS or HS!

Yah but not many. Most used it as an opt out of silver spring schools

Do you have the actual stats on this? Because otherwise simply saying it over and over doesn't make it true. You sound like a troll. Language immersion can be a lot of work if there isn't already a foundation at home, this isn't a decision most families take lightly.

Ancedotally, the families I know who really wanted Bethesda schools but could only afford Silver Spring purposely live in the more affordable rentals in the Grubb Rd. neighborhood, zones for Rosemary Hills ES. This wasn't something they were going to chance a lottery for a program they weren't necessarily interested in to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist;
-requires parent to do research (parents with multiple jobs no time, illiterate parents are not informed)
-available to only for families with flexible schedules to drive to school, or a potentially very long bus ride (if there is a route)

-also big breeders who get kid in get all their subsequent kids in which slims the lottery greatly.


The program should be either eliminated or expanded to serve all. As is now it is just a "leg up for the upwardly mobile" .

Here is a better language immersion program in Evanston that is more equitable and I could get on board with
http://www.district65.net/Page/528

It should 100% be eliminated. ALL programs that bus kids out of their neighborhood to other schools. The programs that parents only in the know can figure out and do, should be eliminated. Putting IB programs in failing schools should also be eliminated. The amount of money saved each year alone (programs, teachers, jobs doing the forms and acceptances, buses all over our congested county etc...) would help feed all kids for free and get better resources for those in need. All schools need to be neighborhood based and classes based on knowledge from 1st grade onwards. The smarter classes have higher ratios and the struggling kids have lower ratios and paras in the classroom. It's really not that hard to do but MCPS likes to scramble the numbers to make schools look smarter or safer or have these programs to keep families thinking they are getting a good education. It's all a very expensive scam and does nothing to help 90% of the enrolled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great. Stale data from 2013.

The data was from 2014 and the article was published in 2016.

....and this thread is from 2015. Yes, there used to be a pretty significant issue with the language immersion programs, and it's not wrong to say class was part of the issue. At the time this thread was started, immersion programs were functionally word-of-mouth. By the time most families found out about the lottery, it had already taken place. The big public push for kindy registration is in the spring, but you needed to have your kid registered for kindergarten and in the lottery by late winter.

Later, MCPS changed it to align, which made a difference.

It doesn't at all

[Anonymous]

There has been a real uptick in immersion attacks on this forum in recent months and I can only assume one or more very disgruntled parents whose kids did not lottery in last spring.

Sorry. It sucks. Try again for first grade. You never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There has been a real uptick in immersion attacks on this forum in recent months and I can only assume one or more very disgruntled parents whose kids did not lottery in last spring.

Sorry. It sucks. Try again for first grade. You never know.

Not at all why. It’s because you can’t get blood from a rock and the economy sucks. We need to put our taxes where the data shows it helps kids learn to read and be functioning members of society. These immersion programs are just one way MCPS tries to lure wealthy parents away from private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist;
-requires parent to do research (parents with multiple jobs no time, illiterate parents are not informed)
-available to only for families with flexible schedules to drive to school, or a potentially very long bus ride (if there is a route)

-also big breeders who get kid in get all their subsequent kids in which slims the lottery greatly.


The program should be either eliminated or expanded to serve all. As is now it is just a "leg up for the upwardly mobile" .

Here is a better language immersion program in Evanston that is more equitable and I could get on board with
http://www.district65.net/Page/528

It should 100% be eliminated. ALL programs that bus kids out of their neighborhood to other schools. The programs that parents only in the know can figure out and do, should be eliminated. Putting IB programs in failing schools should also be eliminated. The amount of money saved each year alone (programs, teachers, jobs doing the forms and acceptances, buses all over our congested county etc...) would help feed all kids for free and get better resources for those in need. All schools need to be neighborhood based and classes based on knowledge from 1st grade onwards. The smarter classes have higher ratios and the struggling kids have lower ratios and paras in the classroom. It's really not that hard to do but MCPS likes to scramble the numbers to make schools look smarter or safer or have these programs to keep families thinking they are getting a good education. It's all a very expensive scam and does nothing to help 90% of the enrolled kids.

Free and reduced meals come out of federal funds, not school-specific funds, and are not fungible. If you don't know that, I'm not sure you are qualified to have an opinion on how MCPS should be spending its money.