Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

That is an error and I'm going to ask them to correct it. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ no I think there is plenty they could do if they wanted to make it more equitable:
1) post card flyers to all home addresses in the county
2) change the deadline of the lottery or of the general registration so that you can get info on the lottery and apply when doing the much more widelt publicized standard registration
3) elimimate sibling preference
4) discontinue the immersion preference to continue through MS and HS outside the home zone.

All of these would be useful steps to making it a slightly more equitable to poor a huge benefit on one kid when others get zip on the language side.

1) other poster beat me to it but cry about budgeting issues and then waste funds mailing to every address in the county?
2) changing the deadline could be an option but I'm not sure it would help. If you don't know in April why would you know in July? Part of the reason it's done early is so that there is enough time prior to the start of school to go through the selection process as many apply but back out. It might work if standard registration was earlier and entrance into the lottery was tied to it.
3) I agree sibling preference should be eliminated.
4) there is no immersion preference into high school. You must do a COSA. Middle school continuation is a no brainer. Are you suggesting lottery starts over with kids that are not fluent at that age? I'm a 100% positive though that if you have language skills you can easily get in at the middle school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

That is an error and I'm going to ask them to correct it. Thanks for pointing it out.

There's no error.. It clearly says rcf has no regional preference. If you can't understand what words mean don't pretend to insult poor people because many of us navigated the process just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

That is an error and I'm going to ask them to correct it. Thanks for pointing it out.

There's no error.. It clearly says rcf has no regional preference. If you can't understand what words mean don't pretend to insult poor people because many of us navigated the process just fine.

It seems to be confusing to the PP above. I can understand what words mean and didn't pretend to insult poor people, b*tch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

That is an error and I'm going to ask them to correct it. Thanks for pointing it out.

There's no error.. It clearly says rcf has no regional preference. If you can't understand what words mean don't pretend to insult poor people because many of us navigated the process just fine.

It seems to be confusing to the PP above. I can understand what words mean and didn't pretend to insult poor people, b*tch.

Lady, go back to your full immersion in a dark, dark cave.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the problem is that it's impossible to find out about the program. It's that in certain circles there's an understanding that immersion has benefits beyond learning a language. Whether true or not the scuttlebutt in preschools is immersion is a way to get into a better school, avoid excessive testing, have a classroom teacher with more control over curriculum, etc. MCPS can't clue anyone in to this talk because these are not the stated purpose of the program, just ways people try to game it. I knew about immersion in time to apply but didn't for either of mine. However, my next door neighbor was planning to use an aunt's address or something to get her daughter into a DC immersion program next fall. I asked her why she wasn't considering the MCPS lottery and she didn't know it existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The information about the immersion programs is available on the MCPS website. Elementary schools are familiar with the application deadlines/process and can help parents if they have questions.

A child doesn't need to be registered a year before.

There are magnet school buses available, and driving a child to school is not required or necessary.

Yes the information is readily available if you know where to look or if you ask questions about it BUT how are people supposed to know to look or ask questions in the first place.

I think MCPS and many who are familiar with the school system too often over estimate the general public's knowledge of the system.

I am relatively new to the area and unfamiliar with the public school system and my oldest kid turned 5 earlier this year. Nothing uncommon. As of this January, all I know is what cluster we are in, the location of our ES & HS (only know vaguely where the MS is) and that I need to enroll my child in Kindergarten before the start of the next school year (sometime in August 2015). Really I didn't know any thing else substantive - all my friends with kids are the same age or younger or much much older.

I like to be on top of things so I went on line - I looked at the section on How to Enroll Your Child and then called the ES to find out what to do because the website doesn't really tell you much beyond which is your assigned school and what forms you need (oh and the school had more forms then the website lists) - they were great and got our info and added us to some list and said that a letter would go out in March telling us what to do. Got the letter, was surprised to find out that I needed to come into the school early the next week in person during school hours to pick up a packet and to sign up for a time slot in May during Kindergarten Orientation. I had a business trip scheduled and DH's schedule is not flexible (he is a teacher elsewhere in the area) - so I called and again they were helpful and let me sign-up over the phone for a time slot and let my mother pick up the packet. And so on...

Nowhere in this process was anything ever mentioned about immersion programs - and it is not obvious on website, you have to be looking.

No I'm trying to imagine doing this if I don't speak English well or don't have easy access to a computer and the internet? What f I'm a single parent without enough time for anything? Or any number of other scenarios or combinations of scenarios? I have all sorts of "advantages" and I still get frustrated trying to figure out what is going on at times. Not sure why MCPS thinks everyone has all this knowledge about the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easy web access is available at any public library, by the way, free of charge.

Yes, but some people, like OP, are so much in love with their own blah-blah-blah that they always find some excuse to whine.

How would you account for the socio-econcomic divide between a DCC neighborhood program and an eastern MoCO language immersion program? Do you seriously think poor people do not want the best for their child? Or do you think that maybe they don't know what if available to them?

It is a lottery so I get everyone has same chance once they are in it. Not everyone knowing they can get in the lottery in is the issue.

MCPS does a LOT to publicize lottery and magnet programs. They have info available in Spanish and other languages, they send things home, etc. etc.

At a certain point there is some parental/community responsibility, though. MCPS can't be mind readers and know where kids are when they haven't yet registered. Parents should inform themselves. If they are in a vulnerable community, then community organizations should mobilize to make sure that parents are informed. It wouldn't take much -- flyers in key locations would be helpful and cheap.

BTW research shows that the only real way to close the achievement gap ix by integrating schools. Since people here wouldn't tolerate bussing, magnets and special programs are really the only tool left. While these classes aren't integrated, at least the families get involved in the school.

Please tell me what they do to publicize because I have lived in the area for over forty years and had never heard of them until this past March. And I am not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure most apply to these programs for the language immersion experience, I wonder how many apply for other reasons--capped class size, access to the different "pyramid" an earlier poster mentioned, etc. In this case their main goal is to escape the "general MCPS" system rather than the language immersion (though that's what they accept for the benefits they perceive).

I would love to know this information. It would put the question to rest about whether all families are trying to escape their "bad" school pyramid for a "good" one. We are only in K, so we haven't gotten to know a lot of the families yet, but the ones we do know have entered the program for the language benefits and not the school pyramid. Again, we aren't at RCF, so the proportion of families who apply for the school pyramid may be different there.

I do know one family who entered the lottery to escape a perceived bad elementary. They are at Maryvale FI now. It does happen. I don't think it happens to the extent that many DCUM posters think it does.

Maybe those running the evaluation of choice programs in MCPS should do the survey of current parents or even parents that applied for the immersion lottery and didn't get in to see how many applied for benefits other than language.

No one admits that they apply to escape their own school, at least not directly. I can tell you that are RCF a really high number of the immersion students live in the DCC. Take that for what you will.

Here we go again.

Correlation and causation aren't the same thing. You could just as easily conclude that parents who live in Takoma Park and Silver Spring are more internationally minded. Or that they have more Spanish speaking neighbors and therefore view Spanish as an important skill. Or that Silver Spring and Takoma Park have more parents who work in international development and feel language experience is important for their kids. I bet there are more Peace Corps alum in TPSS too.

My kids went through RCF/Westland and are now back in the DCC for high school. It was a big investment in time and attention to keep them in those programs and there were many downsides. The language issue was valued highly by all the parents I knew when my kid was there.

I know of at least 3 families within 3 blocks of our house that applied to and were accepted at immersion programs within the past 3 years. The ONLY reason they applied was because the neighborhood school is not considered a great option. Each of these families expressed concern about their children adjusting to the language, and it was viewed almost as a sacrifice/risk, but one that was preferable to attending the neighborhood school. I spoke with all of them, because it was our plan as well. I was told, and I quote "we looked at [local school] and we just couldn't do it." This isn't everyone, but this is a very real dynamic in some neighborhoods in Silver Spring. I know there are other reasons, but in some neighborhoods where the parents have decided for whatever reason that they don't have faith in their assigned school, they apply to the lottery and hope for a good outcome. Anyone who thinks this isn't a dynamic and is just some random and unconfirmed theory should just come to our hood and talk to the parents, especially those who did NOT get in! You'll get an earful about the mass exodus from our local school (ours being one of the poorest in the county) and how effectively and completely it diminishes middle class enrollment at the local school.

AMEN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The information about the immersion programs is available on the MCPS website. Elementary schools are familiar with the application deadlines/process and can help parents if they have questions.

A child doesn't need to be registered a year before.

There are magnet school buses available, and driving a child to school is not required or necessary.

Yes the information is readily available if you know where to look or if you ask questions about it BUT how are people supposed to know to look or ask questions in the first place.

I think MCPS and many who are familiar with the school system too often over estimate the general public's knowledge of the system.

I am relatively new to the area and unfamiliar with the public school system and my oldest kid turned 5 earlier this year. Nothing uncommon. As of this January, all I know is what cluster we are in, the location of our ES & HS (only know vaguely where the MS is) and that I need to enroll my child in Kindergarten before the start of the next school year (sometime in August 2015). Really I didn't know any thing else substantive - all my friends with kids are the same age or younger or much much older.

I like to be on top of things so I went on line - I looked at the section on How to Enroll Your Child and then called the ES to find out what to do because the website doesn't really tell you much beyond which is your assigned school and what forms you need (oh and the school had more forms then the website lists) - they were great and got our info and added us to some list and said that a letter would go out in March telling us what to do. Got the letter, was surprised to find out that I needed to come into the school early the next week in person during school hours to pick up a packet and to sign up for a time slot in May during Kindergarten Orientation. I had a business trip scheduled and DH's schedule is not flexible (he is a teacher elsewhere in the area) - so I called and again they were helpful and let me sign-up over the phone for a time slot and let my mother pick up the packet. And so on...

Nowhere in this process was anything ever mentioned about immersion programs - and it is not obvious on website, you have to be looking.

No I'm trying to imagine doing this if I don't speak English well or don't have easy access to a computer and the internet? What f I'm a single parent without enough time for anything? Or any number of other scenarios or combinations of scenarios? I have all sorts of "advantages" and I still get frustrated trying to figure out what is going on at times. Not sure why MCPS thinks everyone has all this knowledge about the system.

So, your point is that parents with resources, time and a brain are more likely to navigate the system than those without. Wow, future Nobel Prize winner!

If you're a single parent without enough time for anything, you do have a few more important things that useless bitching about "classist" programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I know of at least 3 families within 3 blocks of our house that applied to and were accepted at immersion programs within the past 3 years. The ONLY reason they applied was because the neighborhood school is not considered a great option. Each of these families expressed concern about their children adjusting to the language, and it was viewed almost as a sacrifice/risk, but one that was preferable to attending the neighborhood school. I spoke with all of them, because it was our plan as well. I was told, and I quote "we looked at [local school] and we just couldn't do it." This isn't everyone, but this is a very real dynamic in some neighborhoods in Silver Spring. I know there are other reasons, but in some neighborhoods where the parents have decided for whatever reason that they don't have faith in their assigned school, they apply to the lottery and hope for a good outcome. Anyone who thinks this isn't a dynamic and is just some random and unconfirmed theory should just come to our hood and talk to the parents, especially those who did NOT get in! You'll get an earful about the mass exodus from our local school (ours being one of the poorest in the county) and how effectively and completely it diminishes middle class enrollment at the local school.

So should MCPS get rid of the immersion programs on grounds that some people enter the lottery for the immersion programs with the goal of avoiding their neighborhood school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I know of at least 3 families within 3 blocks of our house that applied to and were accepted at immersion programs within the past 3 years. The ONLY reason they applied was because the neighborhood school is not considered a great option. Each of these families expressed concern about their children adjusting to the language, and it was viewed almost as a sacrifice/risk, but one that was preferable to attending the neighborhood school. I spoke with all of them, because it was our plan as well. I was told, and I quote "we looked at [local school] and we just couldn't do it." This isn't everyone, but this is a very real dynamic in some neighborhoods in Silver Spring. I know there are other reasons, but in some neighborhoods where the parents have decided for whatever reason that they don't have faith in their assigned school, they apply to the lottery and hope for a good outcome. Anyone who thinks this isn't a dynamic and is just some random and unconfirmed theory should just come to our hood and talk to the parents, especially those who did NOT get in! You'll get an earful about the mass exodus from our local school (ours being one of the poorest in the county) and how effectively and completely it diminishes middle class enrollment at the local school.

So should MCPS get rid of the immersion programs on grounds that some people enter the lottery for the immersion programs with the goal of avoiding their neighborhood school?

That seems to be OP's philosophy. F*ck everyone, so that the poor/ distracted/ busy don't fall behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

That is an error and I'm going to ask them to correct it. Thanks for pointing it out.

There's no error.. It clearly says rcf has no regional preference. If you can't understand what words mean don't pretend to insult poor people because many of us navigated the process just fine.

It seems to be confusing to the PP above. I can understand what words mean and didn't pretend to insult poor people, b*tch.

Lady, go back to your full immersion in a dark, dark cave.

What exactly is wrong with you? I do not have a kid in any immersion program.

[Anonymous]

So should MCPS get rid of the immersion programs on grounds that some people enter the lottery for the immersion programs with the goal of avoiding their neighborhood school?

That seems to be OP's philosophy. F*ck everyone, so that the poor/ distracted/ busy don't fall behind.

Hostile crowd dcum.

The program is the equivalent of celebrating the OnePercenters.

MCPS could level the playing field, but as liberal as it thinks it is this instutionaluzed classism will persist.

Let's spinoff: West mcps. East mcps. Very different budgeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The information about the immersion programs is available on the MCPS website. Elementary schools are familiar with the application deadlines/process and can help parents if they have questions.

A child doesn't need to be registered a year before.

There are magnet school buses available, and driving a child to school is not required or necessary.

Yes the information is readily available if you know where to look or if you ask questions about it BUT how are people supposed to know to look or ask questions in the first place.

I think MCPS and many who are familiar with the school system too often over estimate the general public's knowledge of the system.

I am relatively new to the area and unfamiliar with the public school system and my oldest kid turned 5 earlier this year. Nothing uncommon. As of this January, all I know is what cluster we are in, the location of our ES & HS (only know vaguely where the MS is) and that I need to enroll my child in Kindergarten before the start of the next school year (sometime in August 2015). Really I didn't know any thing else substantive - all my friends with kids are the same age or younger or much much older.

I like to be on top of things so I went on line - I looked at the section on How to Enroll Your Child and then called the ES to find out what to do because the website doesn't really tell you much beyond which is your assigned school and what forms you need (oh and the school had more forms then the website lists) - they were great and got our info and added us to some list and said that a letter would go out in March telling us what to do. Got the letter, was surprised to find out that I needed to come into the school early the next week in person during school hours to pick up a packet and to sign up for a time slot in May during Kindergarten Orientation. I had a business trip scheduled and DH's schedule is not flexible (he is a teacher elsewhere in the area) - so I called and again they were helpful and let me sign-up over the phone for a time slot and let my mother pick up the packet. And so on...

Nowhere in this process was anything ever mentioned about immersion programs - and it is not obvious on website, you have to be looking.

No I'm trying to imagine doing this if I don't speak English well or don't have easy access to a computer and the internet? What f I'm a single parent without enough time for anything? Or any number of other scenarios or combinations of scenarios? I have all sorts of "advantages" and I still get frustrated trying to figure out what is going on at times. Not sure why MCPS thinks everyone has all this knowledge about the system.

Yeah you imagine too much... Just like you imagine everyone in immersion is rich and white. When we are right here in front of you. Why is a single parent assumed to be more busy than a two parent family? "I have so many advantages... Blah blah". Get over yourself , you don't give a damn about non English speakers Nd their internet access.