Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist

[Anonymous]

I agree with you OP. I would rather MCPS end all language immersion programs and instead just focus on the highly gifted, special education and the general ed geared to the majors populace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that the original motivation was to bring higher income kids into lower income schools but that isn't how it necessarily plays out. I am in the DCC and many parents want their kids to go to Rock Creek Forest so that they continue on to Westland and BCC instead of the DCC middle and high schools. So it is really drawing higher income DCC kids into RCF to avoid schools like Einstein, etc. Kind of the opposite of what was intended.

RCF immersion families can go to Westland but not B-CC, as there is not a special program at B-CC for immersion kids (but there is at Westland).

[Anonymous]

What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist;
-requires parent to do research (parents with multiple jobs no time, illiterate parents are not informed)
-available to only for families with flexible schedules to drive to school, or a potentially very long bus ride (if there is a route)

-also big breeders who get kid in get all their subsequent kids in which slims the lottery greatly.


The program should be either eliminated or expanded to serve all. As is now it is just a "leg up for the upwardly mobile" .

Here is a better language immersion program in Evanston that is more equitable and I could get on board with
http://www.district65.net/Page/528

It should 100% be eliminated. ALL programs that bus kids out of their neighborhood to other schools. The programs that parents only in the know can figure out and do, should be eliminated. Putting IB programs in failing schools should also be eliminated. The amount of money saved each year alone (programs, teachers, jobs doing the forms and acceptances, buses all over our congested county etc...) would help feed all kids for free and get better resources for those in need. All schools need to be neighborhood based and classes based on knowledge from 1st grade onwards. The smarter classes have higher ratios and the struggling kids have lower ratios and paras in the classroom. It's really not that hard to do but MCPS likes to scramble the numbers to make schools look smarter or safer or have these programs to keep families thinking they are getting a good education. It's all a very expensive scam and does nothing to help 90% of the enrolled kids.

You will have extremely segregated schools. And classes wit only white and Asian kids and then the rest of the school in certain parts of the county. That was the reality 20 years ago when there was math and ElA tracking and honors classes were real honors classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist;
-requires parent to do research (parents with multiple jobs no time, illiterate parents are not informed)
-available to only for families with flexible schedules to drive to school, or a potentially very long bus ride (if there is a route)

-also big breeders who get kid in get all their subsequent kids in which slims the lottery greatly.


The program should be either eliminated or expanded to serve all. As is now it is just a "leg up for the upwardly mobile" .

Here is a better language immersion program in Evanston that is more equitable and I could get on board with
http://www.district65.net/Page/528

It should 100% be eliminated. ALL programs that bus kids out of their neighborhood to other schools. The programs that parents only in the know can figure out and do, should be eliminated. Putting IB programs in failing schools should also be eliminated. The amount of money saved each year alone (programs, teachers, jobs doing the forms and acceptances, buses all over our congested county etc...) would help feed all kids for free and get better resources for those in need. All schools need to be neighborhood based and classes based on knowledge from 1st grade onwards. The smarter classes have higher ratios and the struggling kids have lower ratios and paras in the classroom. It's really not that hard to do but MCPS likes to scramble the numbers to make schools look smarter or safer or have these programs to keep families thinking they are getting a good education. It's all a very expensive scam and does nothing to help 90% of the enrolled kids.

You will have extremely segregated schools. And classes wit only white and Asian kids and then the rest of the school in certain parts of the county. That was the reality 20 years ago when there was math and ElA tracking and honors classes were real honors classes.

Not the PP but I think we are way past the point of worrying about politically correct. Kids are falling thru the cracks in the mixed classroom setting. 20 years ago, kids were learning much more than they are now. I have seen districts in MA put the kids in standardized testing and rank classes per grade with 15 kids in the lower testing classes and up to 33 kids in the higher ranking classes. Since our country doesn't offer help in maternity leave, daycare or free preschool, there are kids coming in to K reading at a 2/3rd grade level and other kids that don't know their ABC's or how to speak English. We will never excel in public schooling if we keep sugar coating and making sure all skin colors and gender are perfectly matched in a classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the original motivation was to bring higher income kids into lower income schools but that isn't how it necessarily plays out. I am in the DCC and many parents want their kids to go to Rock Creek Forest so that they continue on to Westland and BCC instead of the DCC middle and high schools. So it is really drawing higher income DCC kids into RCF to avoid schools like Einstein, etc. Kind of the opposite of what was intended.

RCF immersion families can go to Westland but not B-CC, as there is not a special program at B-CC for immersion kids (but there is at Westland).

Annnnnd...here's a reason for Jeff to invent a mechanism better to identify, if not block, resurrection of old/stale threads.

You went all the way back to page 1 to quibble with a point made over 10 years ago...and back then it was true! Those assigned to the Spanish Immersion program at RCF could articulate to Westland to continue immersion, and, in 2015, anyone going to a feeder MS was permitted to continue to the HS of articulation, B-CC in this case.

It was used by in-the-know families (immersion opportunities and the sequellae were less well known, then -- one can see this in looking back in the thread) not only to gain a second (or third, depending on the home/community experience) language, but also to gain access to a superior HS option. MCPS cut that tie to HS a number of years ago, and, a bit after (IIRC, if not at the same time), opened other MS immersion sites (e.g, White Oak), sending RCF graduates, then, to different middles according to their home address -- not all can go to Westland, now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

What the dual immersion programs have in their favor is less need for transportation since all the program participants are at their home school.

[Anonymous]

I’m hopeful they will rearrange, as a current immersion parent. They could place one class of each language in each region, by adding a few more classes (which I assume is a lot to ask, but maybe doable). You would lose the advantage of having more than one class per school, but better than getting rid of the program all together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

What the dual immersion programs have in their favor is less need for transportation since all the program participants are at their home school.

And, y'know, the whole learning English thing...and the opportunity for Spanish-speaking EMLs to learn Math, Science and Social Studies without being so lost as they get up to speed in their English proficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

Taylor kills the longstanding successful SMCS program. It’s 40 years old and produced astronaut, administrator of federal government agency, and numerous college professors. And Taylor just kills it. Why do you believe he will show some mercy to OWI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

What the dual immersion programs have in their favor is less need for transportation since all the program participants are at their home school.

And, y'know, the whole learning English thing...and the opportunity for Spanish-speaking EMLs to learn Math, Science and Social Studies without being so lost as they get up to speed in their English proficiency.

Where is the evaluation of the OWI programs and their impact on these populations? And if these are expensive programs meant only to serve a small set of lucky wealthy kids, then why are we spending taxpayer dollars for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

What the dual immersion programs have in their favor is less need for transportation since all the program participants are at their home school.

And, y'know, the whole learning English thing...and the opportunity for Spanish-speaking EMLs to learn Math, Science and Social Studies without being so lost as they get up to speed in their English proficiency.

Where is the evaluation of the OWI programs and their impact on these populations? And if these are expensive programs meant only to serve a small set of lucky wealthy kids, then why are we spending taxpayer dollars for them?

The thread is ancient, as are most of the points brought up. Much (though not all) of the social criticism from that time now quoted in present-day responses is irrelevant.

Immersion still presents fantastic opportunity, and holds great promise if designed/resourced/delivered equitably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the fate for this immersion program when the regional model is set-up and every region should presumably have one world-language program?

Taylor will probably get rid of at least some of the language immersion programs. I think that the CES programs will be cut as well.

I think the dual immersion programs will unfortunately be abandoned but I doubt Taylor is going to cut these longstanding and successful OWI programs. French is over 50 years old. I wouldn't be surprised to see some rearranging of where they are.

What the dual immersion programs have in their favor is less need for transportation since all the program participants are at their home school.

And, y'know, the whole learning English thing...and the opportunity for Spanish-speaking EMLs to learn Math, Science and Social Studies without being so lost as they get up to speed in their English proficiency.

Where is the evaluation of the OWI programs and their impact on these populations? And if these are expensive programs meant only to serve a small set of lucky wealthy kids, then why are we spending taxpayer dollars for them?

The thread is ancient, as are most of the points brought up. Much (though not all) of the social criticism from that time now quoted in present-day responses is irrelevant.

Immersion still presents fantastic opportunity, and holds great promise if designed/resourced/delivered equitably.

So no evaluation of the impact of OWI on:
- kids that receive FARMS
- kids with IEPs
- EMLs

But we should eliminate a much newer program that is more accessible to all kids and that is in the early stages of implementation?