Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"and how many families in the non-immersion part of the school have 4 or more kids. "

Even if you just have 2 kids there is no reason your subsequent child should get into the program too. If it's an issue of logistics the school could approve COSAs for siblings to attend the regular program at the immersion school site.

We entered the language lottery for the language benefits, not for a different school pyramid. In fact, we left a "better" school for the immersion program. We are not in the RCF program, BTW. There is a huge language benefit to having siblings learn the same language and enhance language learning outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree OP.

The county does NOT advertise the immersion program at all in my experience. You need to know that you need to register & apply in Feb rather than as part of the normal registration in the spring. I was aware of spring registration but had no idea until i got to then that the immersion deadlines were done. It sucked.

The current system definitely is set up to give HUGE benefits to families that qualify for the program - you get access to a different school pyramid which can be much better in MS and potentially HS; you get subsequent kids into the program too.

Those unaware of the lottery's deadlines or simply losers in the lottery get zip while the winners get 9+ years at their preferred school location for multiple kids.

It's a very very unfair system.

They don't get zip. They get the general MCPS public-school education.

I still want to know how the immersion programs at Burnt Mills, Rock Creek Forest, and Rolling Terrace are classist, by the way. All three are all local-school preference programs.

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

[Anonymous]

Easy web access is available at any public library, by the way, free of charge.

[Anonymous]

I believe even if you missed a deadline to apply for an immersion program for Kindergarten due to lack of information, etc., you can still apply for the next year - 1st grade. Knowledge of language is not mandatory at that point.

[Anonymous]

While I'm sure most apply to these programs for the language immersion experience, I wonder how many apply for other reasons--capped class size, access to the different "pyramid" an earlier poster mentioned, etc. In this case their main goal is to escape the "general MCPS" system rather than the language immersion (though that's what they accept for the benefits they perceive).

[Anonymous]

Yes it is a lottery system.

One that is not well advertised. And certainly any notices mailed are not in Ambaric (for example)

Oh and if your kid attends a title one school's immersion program they have an opportunity to go to science camp for 3 weeks free! Gotta have the right grades though. So guess who at RTES (and mkes has top grades?

[Anonymous]

I know a Spanish speaking family who maintained that it was much harder to get in to the Spanish magnets with a Hispanic last name. They claimed this was because the immersion programs are intended to teach children a new language, not reinforce a language they have already learned at home, and the allegation is that Hispanic applicants are presumed to already know Spanish. Any truth to this?

Coincidentally, I know only three families in French immersion and they all happened to already speak French at home. That doesn't seem like the point of an immersion school to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure most apply to these programs for the language immersion experience, I wonder how many apply for other reasons--capped class size, access to the different "pyramid" an earlier poster mentioned, etc. In this case their main goal is to escape the "general MCPS" system rather than the language immersion (though that's what they accept for the benefits they perceive).

I would love to know this information. It would put the question to rest about whether all families are trying to escape their "bad" school pyramid for a "good" one. We are only in K, so we haven't gotten to know a lot of the families yet, but the ones we do know have entered the program for the language benefits and not the school pyramid. Again, we aren't at RCF, so the proportion of families who apply for the school pyramid may be different there.

I do know one family who entered the lottery to escape a perceived bad elementary. They are at Maryvale FI now. It does happen. I don't think it happens to the extent that many DCUM posters think it does.

Maybe those running the evaluation of choice programs in MCPS should do the survey of current parents or even parents that applied for the immersion lottery and didn't get in to see how many applied for benefits other than language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a Spanish speaking family who maintained that it was much harder to get in to the Spanish magnets with a Hispanic last name. They claimed this was because the immersion programs are intended to teach children a new language, not reinforce a language they have already learned at home, and the allegation is that Hispanic applicants are presumed to already know Spanish. Any truth to this?

Coincidentally, I know only three families in French immersion and they all happened to already speak French at home. That doesn't seem like the point of an immersion school to me.

So you are saying that the lottery was rigged?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy web access is available at any public library, by the way, free of charge.

Yes, but some people, like OP, are so much in love with their own blah-blah-blah that they always find some excuse to whine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree 1000%. The fact that you need to know about the program and have your preK-aged child registered for kindergarten the year before in order to enter the lottery is seriously problematic and contributes to how white and middle class the language immersion programs are.

Not to mention they take middle-class kids out of mixed-income neighborhoods, which leaves the neighborhoods schools with a much higher FARMS percentage than the actual neighborhood itself.

So it is the middle-class kids' job to populate high FARMS schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a Spanish speaking family who maintained that it was much harder to get in to the Spanish magnets with a Hispanic last name. They claimed this was because the immersion programs are intended to teach children a new language, not reinforce a language they have already learned at home, and the allegation is that Hispanic applicants are presumed to already know Spanish. Any truth to this?

Coincidentally, I know only three families in French immersion and they all happened to already speak French at home. That doesn't seem like the point of an immersion school to me.

No, there is no truth to that. Admission for RCF (full Spanish immersion) is a true lottery. Admission for RTES and BMES (partial Spanish immersion) give preference to home school, then are lottery for remaining seats. No where in there do they look at family names.

I agree that the goal isn't for native speakers, but I see no reason to exclude them from the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RCF doesn't have local-school preference.

I am no the OP or PP who think they are classist. I'm just pointing out the error.

MCPS says that it does: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/immersion-spanish.aspx

It's poorly worded in the "admission" section. Under "region", it clearly says countywide for RCF and "local, then countywide" for RTES and BMES.

Here's the pdf of the at-a-glance that is more clear.

http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/admissions/Immersion%20AT-A-Glance12-13.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure most apply to these programs for the language immersion experience, I wonder how many apply for other reasons--capped class size, access to the different "pyramid" an earlier poster mentioned, etc. In this case their main goal is to escape the "general MCPS" system rather than the language immersion (though that's what they accept for the benefits they perceive).

I would love to know this information. It would put the question to rest about whether all families are trying to escape their "bad" school pyramid for a "good" one. We are only in K, so we haven't gotten to know a lot of the families yet, but the ones we do know have entered the program for the language benefits and not the school pyramid. Again, we aren't at RCF, so the proportion of families who apply for the school pyramid may be different there.

I do know one family who entered the lottery to escape a perceived bad elementary. They are at Maryvale FI now. It does happen. I don't think it happens to the extent that many DCUM posters think it does.

Maybe those running the evaluation of choice programs in MCPS should do the survey of current parents or even parents that applied for the immersion lottery and didn't get in to see how many applied for benefits other than language.

No one admits that they apply to escape their own school, at least not directly. I can tell you that are RCF a really high number of the immersion students live in the DCC. Take that for what you will.