What makes kids so expensive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^then you obviously have some oddball work situation that doesn't apply to 99.9% of the population. Congratulations. My reading comprehension is fine, by the way. You write novels.

No I do not. I work regular hours at a non-profit. I work from home once a week and in the office the rest of the time. Pretty sure that my situation is extremely similar to many.

I also know many, many other parents who have non-regular hours and are able to fit their work around their kids (as I made it clear above). As for me, I have a spouse, which for some reason you don't seem to have considered. Most of us have two people doing the parenting, don't we? Or does that not apply to 99.9 percent of the population either?

the key is a ) you won the charter lottery, so you are getting high quality school while living in a cheap real estate market (ie, you won a freaking lottery) and b) it seems likely you are defrauding your employer by claiming to work while you are actually caring for young children on your WOTH day, or you have some very elaborate neighborohood babysiting co-op which covers the other 4 day of the week. that is not typical and would take enormous fortune for most people to find.

but housing and childcare. those are the big ones, and you basically have some unusual scenario that most people can't replicate even if they tried. realize you got lucky and be more gracious.

Are you really this dumb? No I am not "defrauding" my employer. My kids are at school while I work from home. And while I "won" the lottery, it didn't involve much luck. My kids school took every single kid who applied on my oldest's grade when he got in, after he transferred from another charter that also went all the way through it's waitlist when he got in there. There are plenty of charter spots for those who need them if you are not snobs.

What do you do with them in the summer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even at a public school, there are fundraisers -- stuff that your kids have to sell, times when you are expected to donate, teacher gifts. With multiple kids, this can easily be a couple of hundred dollars a year.

Even in a cheap activity like Girl Scouts, you have to sell cookies, pay for a camping trip, a uniform, a badge, your kid will want to go to camp.

When your kids get older, you may be comfortable being the only parent to tell the kid they can't go on the expensive field trip with school, the only one in Spanish class not going to the Mexican restaurant, the only one in the choir not going on the trip to Boston or Disneyworld or something, but many of us prefer not to stigmatize our children.

You may be comfortable never taking your child to a movie, a play, a restaurant, etc. but your child will feel funny in college if they have never done any of these things.

For the woman above, do you routinely RSVP no to birthday parties? Do you not hold birthday parties? On some level, I admire your stance -- but I haven't figured out how to check out of the cycle of consumption without also checking out of modern life and the social circle of neighbors and school friends, etc. How do you maintain friendships with people if you don't do the same activities?

For me it is not about stigma/keeping up appearances/keeping up with the Joneses. It is about enriching their lives.

[Anonymous]

I spend a ton of money on activities - dance classes, swim classes, gymnastics, summer camps, books, suppement materials (I spent about $400 in Singapore Math and Critical Thinking books last year), trips to museums.

I'm not even counting travel.

The shoes are expensive. $30 a pair, at least, for decent shoes. The clothing I buy is on sale, but still expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Never mind my question; I saw you wrote both are in school, so I understand now.

Right, free pre-K. But that only covers 6 hrs out of the 8. and what did she do when they were under 3???

Apparently they left them home along in a pack-in-play from birth to age 3.

No they had that network of friends and neighbors. Do they track who is watching the neighborhood brood in a google calendar or something?

[Anonymous]

Breast milk saves a TON of $$$,
Not to mention less illness.

It's the best investment for
The first 9 - 12 months of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Breast milk saves a TON of $$$,
Not to mention less illness.

It's the best investment for
The first 9 - 12 months of life.

I WAH PT, so breastfeeding was cheap (after the initial expenditures of LC consults, renting pumps, SNS, etc.). I am very impressed by women who pump at an office, and that's not free. Taking the time, during the workday, stressing about amount, etc.

Also, the health benefits were not at all apparent for my DS with allergies, asthma, and constant cough, cold, and ear infections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even at a public school, there are fundraisers -- stuff that your kids have to sell, times when you are expected to donate, teacher gifts. With multiple kids, this can easily be a couple of hundred dollars a year.

Even in a cheap activity like Girl Scouts, you have to sell cookies, pay for a camping trip, a uniform, a badge, your kid will want to go to camp.

When your kids get older, you may be comfortable being the only parent to tell the kid they can't go on the expensive field trip with school, the only one in Spanish class not going to the Mexican restaurant, the only one in the choir not going on the trip to Boston or Disneyworld or something, but many of us prefer not to stigmatize our children.

You may be comfortable never taking your child to a movie, a play, a restaurant, etc. but your child will feel funny in college if they have never done any of these things.

For the woman above, do you routinely RSVP no to birthday parties? Do you not hold birthday parties? On some level, I admire your stance -- but I haven't figured out how to check out of the cycle of consumption without also checking out of modern life and the social circle of neighbors and school friends, etc. How do you maintain friendships with people if you don't do the same activities?

For me it is not about stigma/keeping up appearances/keeping up with the Joneses. It is about enriching their lives.

You're very condescending toward other people who might not have the same opportunity you have (telework, charter school). Also, you said you never paid for childcare. How did that work until age three when the kids went to charter school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^then you obviously have some oddball work situation that doesn't apply to 99.9% of the population. Congratulations. My reading comprehension is fine, by the way. You write novels.

No I do not. I work regular hours at a non-profit. I work from home once a week and in the office the rest of the time. Pretty sure that my situation is extremely similar to many.

I also know many, many other parents who have non-regular hours and are able to fit their work around their kids (as I made it clear above). As for me, I have a spouse, which for some reason you don't seem to have considered. Most of us have two people doing the parenting, don't we? Or does that not apply to 99.9 percent of the population either?

You are such an asshole! And I love how you're not a rich asshole for sending your kids overseas but some of us who used a nanny are.

I don't "send" my kids overseas. We travel there as a family. Half our family lives overseas so it's no different from your annual visit to grandma. We go every other year. At least one ticket is paid for with FF miles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is enlightening.

This is exactly why you rich people complain that you can't make it on $300k a year.

We have a wonderful family life and feel very lucky with where we're at financially and what we can do, but I have absolutely ZERO inclination to spend money on things that the rich idiots on this thread claim are essential for their children.

Our children are still young - 7 and 4 - but have cost us relatively little. We live in the same house we lived in pre kids and drive the same car, kids get a lot of their clothes from thrift stores, go to public charter schools, we've never paid a dime for child care (work out our schedules around the kids, trade babysitting with neighbors and friends). They eat what we eat and always have done - not much added to our grocery bill. When they were younger we used cloth diapers and breastfed, no interest in spending money for formula when it's free, warm and convenient straight from the breast. Also potty trained both and completely rid of diapers including overnight before age 2. We have an HMO which covers all our medical needs and costs less per month than our pre-kid insurance.

We go out much less now that we have kids. We drink less with kids than we used to. No more theater tickets or comedy tickets, or nights out to see live music. Or at least not very often. Ditto the movies. We socialize in different ways now but overall, likely save money.

My kids don't go to expensive camps, they are not signed up for expensive sports or activities. We do activities together as a family every weekend, go to the library often, have playdates. Take advantage of neighborhood activities (free) or those offered by parks and rec, including their summer camp.

Our biggest additional expense from kids is travel. While we now take them camping for a weekend a few times a summer when pre kids we might have stayed in a B and B, we also fly a couple of times a year which is now twice as expensive with four tickets. We also travel overseas every year or two years and have to rent a larger car than we'd done previously. And if not camping or staying with family we have to rent a larger apartment or vacation rental for the four of us.

So really, OP, don't let the freaking nutty people on this thread persuade you that it's normal to drop thousands on summer camp and sports and pool membership and on buying McMansions in the burbs in a good school district with all the other Stepford wives. This is a very skewed audience. Normal people work out how they can feed their kids and keep them in clothes and shoes, rather than justifying just how talented their kid is so that they feel better about dropping $300 a month on violin lessons.

Signed - parent of two kids, very comfortable with an HHI of about $95k

Nothing you say after this line has any meaning.

Oh, yes? And who gave you the right to dictate that?

The question isn't about teens, it's about KIDS. I have plenty of experience with kids and even when they are teens I can tell you hands down that we will not be paying for clubs and classes and tuition and pool memberships or hundreds of dollars for a birthday party. Just not happening. It's not part of my approach to life. And, yes, I do think I'm superior to you because I have a much more minimalist, thrifty and reasonable approach to child raising and to my budget.

You have seven years of experience with kids.

You have zero years of experience with pre-teens and teens.

You can plan for whatever you want - but life will throw you whatever it will: Learning disabilities, extraordinary talents, special needs. It is not about your approach to life. It is about what you do with what you are given.

Check your reading comprehension. I'll help by bolding the sentence before your bolded part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Breast milk saves a TON of $$$,
Not to mention less illness.

It's the best investment for
The first 9 - 12 months of life.

I WAH PT, so breastfeeding was cheap (after the initial expenditures of LC consults, renting pumps, SNS, etc.). I am very impressed by women who pump at an office, and that's not free. Taking the time, during the workday, stressing about amount, etc.

Also, the health benefits were not at all apparent for my DS with allergies, asthma, and constant cough, cold, and ear infections.

Not the norm, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^then you obviously have some oddball work situation that doesn't apply to 99.9% of the population. Congratulations. My reading comprehension is fine, by the way. You write novels.

No I do not. I work regular hours at a non-profit. I work from home once a week and in the office the rest of the time. Pretty sure that my situation is extremely similar to many.

I also know many, many other parents who have non-regular hours and are able to fit their work around their kids (as I made it clear above). As for me, I have a spouse, which for some reason you don't seem to have considered. Most of us have two people doing the parenting, don't we? Or does that not apply to 99.9 percent of the population either?

You are such an asshole! And I love how you're not a rich asshole for sending your kids overseas but some of us who used a nanny are.

I don't "send" my kids overseas. We travel there as a family. Half our family lives overseas so it's no different from your annual visit to grandma. We go every other year. At least one ticket is paid for with FF miles.

How do your earn enough FF miles annually if you don't travel much to earn an Intl flight??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

Neither of you has a 9-5 job, so actually a pretty unusual situation. And you seem to have sacrificed a good deal of potential income and job stability and benefits to have this arrangement. I assume your DH income would be higher if he wasn't the default parent? You don't pay much out of pocket but there seem to be large opportunity costs you are discounting. Unless your careers are extremely self limited?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even at a public school, there are fundraisers -- stuff that your kids have to sell, times when you are expected to donate, teacher gifts. With multiple kids, this can easily be a couple of hundred dollars a year.

Even in a cheap activity like Girl Scouts, you have to sell cookies, pay for a camping trip, a uniform, a badge, your kid will want to go to camp.

When your kids get older, you may be comfortable being the only parent to tell the kid they can't go on the expensive field trip with school, the only one in Spanish class not going to the Mexican restaurant, the only one in the choir not going on the trip to Boston or Disneyworld or something, but many of us prefer not to stigmatize our children.

You may be comfortable never taking your child to a movie, a play, a restaurant, etc. but your child will feel funny in college if they have never done any of these things.

For the woman above, do you routinely RSVP no to birthday parties? Do you not hold birthday parties? On some level, I admire your stance -- but I haven't figured out how to check out of the cycle of consumption without also checking out of modern life and the social circle of neighbors and school friends, etc. How do you maintain friendships with people if you don't do the same activities?

For me it is not about stigma/keeping up appearances/keeping up with the Joneses. It is about enriching their lives.

I guess I'm just not in the same social circles as you.

Where did I say that my kids didn't go to birthday parties? Or that they never went to restaurants or plays or traveled? I said that we spend relatively little on our kids not that they are free. We have always given to charity so giving to their school is no different and doesn't increase our overall charitable gifts budget.

How much do you spend to attend a birthday party? Most of the parties my kids get invited to say "no gifts". Cost = zero. If we take a gift it's usually $10-15, which is the norm. And, yes, we've had birthday parties for the kids every year of their lives. We either hold them at home or at a park. I never tallied up how much I spent but it's not a big expense. I make a cake and pizza (both from scratch), we buy some decorations (not expensive) and the kids run around and have fun and play and do what kids do. most expensive thing has probably been beer and wine for the parents. But these aren't big dos -- just a handful of kids and their parents. They are absolutely 100 percent in keeping with what their friends (and our friends) do. And fun too.

As for enrichment -- we live in the DC area! I'll admit that my kids have never been to a movie, but that's not been for financial reasons. This past weekend they had a birthday party (no gift), we went to the Kingman Island Bluegrass Festival (free for kids), to the American History Museum on the Mall (free) and hiked in a nearby state park (free). They also played soccer with some friends at the local rec center (free). Far from them missing out, I think we do more with our kids than pretty much any family we know and that they've had more experiences and enrichment than they'd get from me paying hundreds of dollars for them to attend a soccer or karate class or learn violin.

[Anonymous]

Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.