What makes kids so expensive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^then you obviously have some oddball work situation that doesn't apply to 99.9% of the population. Congratulations. My reading comprehension is fine, by the way. You write novels.

No I do not. I work regular hours at a non-profit. I work from home once a week and in the office the rest of the time. Pretty sure that my situation is extremely similar to many.

I also know many, many other parents who have non-regular hours and are able to fit their work around their kids (as I made it clear above). As for me, I have a spouse, which for some reason you don't seem to have considered. Most of us have two people doing the parenting, don't we? Or does that not apply to 99.9 percent of the population either?

You are such an asshole! And I love how you're not a rich asshole for sending your kids overseas but some of us who used a nanny are.

I don't "send" my kids overseas. We travel there as a family. Half our family lives overseas so it's no different from your annual visit to grandma. We go every other year. At least one ticket is paid for with FF miles.

How do your earn enough FF miles annually if you don't travel much to earn an Intl flight??

Credit cards (we put everything on them and pay off each month) and the miles earned from the previous flights, plus often one other trip during the year. As I said before, vacations are our biggest child cost.

[Anonymous]

Daycare by far is what is going to end us. We can deal with the food, clothes, etc., but paying almost $4k for two is really going to hurt. We have one currently in at $2k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

Neither of you has a 9-5 job, so actually a pretty unusual situation. And you seem to have sacrificed a good deal of potential income and job stability and benefits to have this arrangement. I assume your DH income would be higher if he wasn't the default parent? You don't pay much out of pocket but there seem to be large opportunity costs you are discounting. Unless your careers are extremely self limited?

I have a 9-5 job, I just adjust my hours and work 7 or 8 til 4pm. This is a VERY common arrangement for many people. Of course there are trade-offs, but for me it is MUCH more important to have a quality of life and to spend time with my family than to struggle (financially and personally) with double our income. We are financially very well off, we just make different choices than you do.

It amazes me that some of you are so stuck in your own little bubble where it's essential that you spend $5k a year on travel sports and $100 a week on violin and $10k a summer on camps like there's no other option. There are plenty of other options and many of us in DC can prove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

Neither of you has a 9-5 job, so actually a pretty unusual situation. And you seem to have sacrificed a good deal of potential income and job stability and benefits to have this arrangement. I assume your DH income would be higher if he wasn't the default parent? You don't pay much out of pocket but there seem to be large opportunity costs you are discounting. Unless your careers are extremely self limited?

I have a 9-5 job, I just adjust my hours and work 7 or 8 til 4pm. This is a VERY common arrangement for many people. Of course there are trade-offs, but for me it is MUCH more important to have a quality of life and to spend time with my family than to struggle (financially and personally) with double our income. We are financially very well off, we just make different choices than you do.

It amazes me that some of you are so stuck in your own little bubble where it's essential that you spend $5k a year on travel sports and $100 a week on violin and $10k a summer on camps like there's no other option. There are plenty of other options and many of us in DC can prove it.

By the way, you are grossly overgeneralizing on how much everyone else is spending on activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is enlightening.

This is exactly why you rich people complain that you can't make it on $300k a year.

We have a wonderful family life and feel very lucky with where we're at financially and what we can do, but I have absolutely ZERO inclination to spend money on things that the rich idiots on this thread claim are essential for their children.

Our children are still young - 7 and 4 - but have cost us relatively little. We live in the same house we lived in pre kids and drive the same car, kids get a lot of their clothes from thrift stores, go to public charter schools, we've never paid a dime for child care (work out our schedules around the kids, trade babysitting with neighbors and friends). They eat what we eat and always have done - not much added to our grocery bill. When they were younger we used cloth diapers and breastfed, no interest in spending money for formula when it's free, warm and convenient straight from the breast. Also potty trained both and completely rid of diapers including overnight before age 2. We have an HMO which covers all our medical needs and costs less per month than our pre-kid insurance.

We go out much less now that we have kids. We drink less with kids than we used to. No more theater tickets or comedy tickets, or nights out to see live music. Or at least not very often. Ditto the movies. We socialize in different ways now but overall, likely save money.

My kids don't go to expensive camps, they are not signed up for expensive sports or activities. We do activities together as a family every weekend, go to the library often, have playdates. Take advantage of neighborhood activities (free) or those offered by parks and rec, including their summer camp.

Our biggest additional expense from kids is travel. While we now take them camping for a weekend a few times a summer when pre kids we might have stayed in a B and B, we also fly a couple of times a year which is now twice as expensive with four tickets. We also travel overseas every year or two years and have to rent a larger car than we'd done previously. And if not camping or staying with family we have to rent a larger apartment or vacation rental for the four of us.

So really, OP, don't let the freaking nutty people on this thread persuade you that it's normal to drop thousands on summer camp and sports and pool membership and on buying McMansions in the burbs in a good school district with all the other Stepford wives. This is a very skewed audience. Normal people work out how they can feed their kids and keep them in clothes and shoes, rather than justifying just how talented their kid is so that they feel better about dropping $300 a month on violin lessons.

Signed - parent of two kids, very comfortable with an HHI of about $95k

Nothing you say after this line has any meaning.

Oh, yes? And who gave you the right to dictate that?

The question isn't about teens, it's about KIDS. I have plenty of experience with kids and even when they are teens I can tell you hands down that we will not be paying for clubs and classes and tuition and pool memberships or hundreds of dollars for a birthday party. Just not happening. It's not part of my approach to life. And, yes, I do think I'm superior to you because I have a much more minimalist, thrifty and reasonable approach to child raising and to my budget.

You have seven years of experience with kids.

You have zero years of experience with pre-teens and teens.

You can plan for whatever you want - but life will throw you whatever it will: Learning disabilities, extraordinary talents, special needs. It is not about your approach to life. It is about what you do with what you are given.

Check your reading comprehension. I'll help by bolding the sentence before your bolded part.

Teens are kids. They are dependents who are still developing in all of the same ways that younger children are. Like younger kids, they have needs that their parents must fulfill (if they are responsible parents).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

Neither of you has a 9-5 job, so actually a pretty unusual situation. And you seem to have sacrificed a good deal of potential income and job stability and benefits to have this arrangement. I assume your DH income would be higher if he wasn't the default parent? You don't pay much out of pocket but there seem to be large opportunity costs you are discounting. Unless your careers are extremely self limited?

I have a 9-5 job, I just adjust my hours and work 7 or 8 til 4pm. This is a VERY common arrangement for many people. Of course there are trade-offs, but for me it is MUCH more important to have a quality of life and to spend time with my family than to struggle (financially and personally) with double our income. We are financially very well off, we just make different choices than you do.

It amazes me that some of you are so stuck in your own little bubble where it's essential that you spend $5k a year on travel sports and $100 a week on violin and $10k a summer on camps like there's no other option. There are plenty of other options and many of us in DC can prove it.

By the way, you are grossly overgeneralizing on how much everyone else is spending on activities.

Yeah, those numbers are hilarious. She doesn't seem to realize housing with good schools and childcare are where people spend all their money.

Kind of confused -- DCPS/Charter schools really provide care for free from 8-4 (8 hrs a day!) and In the summer? That's amazing.

Also, if PP works at home only 1 day a week, how does she get to school pickup by 4 if she is leaving work at 4?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

DC pools are free, yes, but they are overcrowded and some can be very rough. Our community pool is super relaxed and you can grill and drink beer. We spend a ton of time at the pool each summer and the kids adore it. Too expensive for PP, though, since it runs us about $600 per season. Plus all the guest fees.

I've been invited to your pool many times, but really have no interest in going to PG pool. We're too busy in the summer to go to the pool often anyway, and if we do it's much more convenient to go to the DPR pool a couple of blocks from our house.

Also, no "hussling" for childcare -- we have it covered and it's easy. And, who does no gift parties? Pretty much everyone. So far this year we've had only one party that was not specifically "no gifts" and I didn't see a single gift at any of the others. Personally we have too much crap anyway (go to Goodwill about 6 x a year to off load stuff and still have a basement full of toys and other kid paraphernalia). People are doing me a favor when they don't bring gifts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Person who doesn't have to pay for childcare, above, which is a huge reason kids are expensive: what is your spouses work situation. How do you cover all the hours? I'm trying to understand how you make this work. Seriously. Thanks.

Happy to answer you (though not the rest of the defensive angry crowd).

Kids are in school. School starts at 8:30am but they can be dropped off at 8am. It finishes at 4pm. Husband takes them to school, I pick them up. This is a pretty identical situation to many families.

My husband is self employed and can set his own hours -- though he does work full time. Kids both have late Sept birthday so started school before they turned 3. Before that we worked it out on a combination of husband taking care of them (most of the time) and working during naps or when I'm home, using my employer's back up child care (a fairly common benefit), occasional childcare/babysitting swaps with other dads who had kids at home during the day, my maternity leave (I took the max x2 which is 22 weeks in DC), and my PTO. I work for a non-profit (full time, regular full time hours) and while the salary is not great the benefits are. I get 6 weeks PTO per year and they also offer free back up childcare for 20 days per child per year.

During the summer, their school has offered a free camp for 6 weeks in previous years. And we use a combination of the above -- their dad, me, back up care -- plus family vacation, and 2 weeks DPR camp for $50 a week (yes, I missed this when I said we didn't pay a dime -- that's the one exception). We may pay more for inexpensive camps in the future (say $150 a week), but I am certainly never spending $5k or 10k per summer on camps.

I've met many parents in similar situations, so I know that we're not unique. Either one parent is self employed or freelance, or works a night shift or other non-traditional hours, or is an academic with a light teaching schedule who can fit work around school pick up and drop off -- many other combinations can make it work.

Neither of you has a 9-5 job, so actually a pretty unusual situation. And you seem to have sacrificed a good deal of potential income and job stability and benefits to have this arrangement. I assume your DH income would be higher if he wasn't the default parent? You don't pay much out of pocket but there seem to be large opportunity costs you are discounting. Unless your careers are extremely self limited?

I have a 9-5 job, I just adjust my hours and work 7 or 8 til 4pm. This is a VERY common arrangement for many people. Of course there are trade-offs, but for me it is MUCH more important to have a quality of life and to spend time with my family than to struggle (financially and personally) with double our income. We are financially very well off, we just make different choices than you do.

It amazes me that some of you are so stuck in your own little bubble where it's essential that you spend $5k a year on travel sports and $100 a week on violin and $10k a summer on camps like there's no other option. There are plenty of other options and many of us in DC can prove it.

By the way, you are grossly overgeneralizing on how much everyone else is spending on activities.

Yeah, those numbers are hilarious. She doesn't seem to realize housing with good schools and childcare are where people spend all their money.

Kind of confused -- DCPS/Charter schools really provide care for free from 8-4 (8 hrs a day!) and In the summer? That's amazing.

Also, if PP works at home only 1 day a week, how does she get to school pickup by 4 if she is leaving work at 4?

Those "hilarious" numbers came from 1) this thread or 2) this forum. My kids' school is close to my work. I typically pick them up about 5-10 minutes after I finish work. Pick up is 4-4:15pm and yes those hours are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

BTW, I didn't say it was an "unpopular" charter. I said that my oldest child got in when everyone in his grade got in (several years ago). That doesn't mean that there aren't waiting lists now or in other grades. And there are ALWAYS options like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Daycare by far is what is going to end us. We can deal with the food, clothes, etc., but paying almost $4k for two is really going to hurt. We have one currently in at $2k.

Not to mention fixing the consequences. Better to do that job yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daycare by far is what is going to end us. We can deal with the food, clothes, etc., but paying almost $4k for two is really going to hurt. We have one currently in at $2k.

Not to mention fixing the consequences. Better to do that job yourself.

Yay! Mommy wars have begun. Wondered why it took so long to start.

So SAH is a job now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

BTW, I didn't say it was an "unpopular" charter. I said that my oldest child got in when everyone in his grade got in (several years ago). That doesn't mean that there aren't waiting lists now or in other grades. And there are ALWAYS options like that.

Wow, why is there so much angst about the lottery if there are always high quality charters opening and making spots?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, for the rest of us who are not academics or self employed and have generous leave benefits AND get our kids into a good charter school, housing and child care are expensive.

BTW, we also are at a charter school and live in a cheap house, and know a few people like you. They're the ones who are always begging for an invite to our pool (which costs me $$ every time) and bringing extra kids to our birthday parties. So, yeah, I can see how that saves you money on entertainment.

Who does no gifts anymore? Once kids hit 3 it's a big debacle b/c some parents always bring gifts regardless and kids and parents who don't are embarrassed. Granted gifts are small, but things add up.

But PP hustles to make sure someone is around for kids, though I guess they are generally working in parallel, and has cheap housing afforded by charter (note she said it was an unpopular charter, and this shows another approach: assume your parental influence will overcome going to a struggling school and is get affordable housing).

One nit, aren't DC pools free for residents? Why would they want to free load off yours?

BTW, I didn't say it was an "unpopular" charter. I said that my oldest child got in when everyone in his grade got in (several years ago). That doesn't mean that there aren't waiting lists now or in other grades. And there are ALWAYS options like that.

Wow, why is there so much angst about the lottery if there are always high quality charters opening and making spots?

And what high quality charter is doing six weeks of free summer camp?