How to be supportive: SAHM wants to go back to work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is an example of something that you should consider working on as far as taking things too personally. It is ok to experience PTAs as nonsense and it is ok that other people disagree and have different experiences. It is not a personal slam. It has nothing to do with you. I now WOH. If a SAHM said that she didn't want to have a lot to do with the empty rat race nonsense, that's not a slam at me. I don't find my job empty rat race nonsense. But it could have been her experience and that's okay too. It is not personal.

So much this. I am the special education teacher who didn't mean to offend. the PTO was nonsense for ME. It was not a good fit. Also not a good fit? Unstructured time, a lack of adult connection, a lack of learning new things and applying them in a meaningful way (I felt like being a SAHM was less a job and more a never ending weekend. Weekends are nice, but not a life for ME.

It was difficult because like that sad woman, my life was cake. I even had help! I just slowly felt myself turning into someone I didn't like, someone my husband shouldn't respect (because I didn't) and someone who was losing her life. It was all slipping away from me. And that turned me into the crying woman at morning yoga.

I made the hard changes and it was the best situation for ME. But privately, many, many women have confided in me that they wished they were strong enough, brave enough to start all over in a new career but it was just too hard. These were smart women, women who could do it but were paralyzed by pride. They are the unhappy ones and the ones suffering like that sad woman. And I don't know, but looking at my own life, I saw its demise if I didn't make a change. My DH was slowly checking out because I was a wreck who had absolutely no reason to be that way beyond my own choosing. He didn't make me SAHM. He contributed to the running of our home. We had help and I still was a mess. Looking back, he was a saint for putting up with me and being patient and providing for us because I wasn't able to be 100 present. And that is all we can ask of ourselves. Are we present? Because if we aren't, SAHM WOHM, then maybe a change is in order.

Congratulations for recognizing and figuring out a problem and taking steps to make your life better! That's impressive. And also congratulations to your husband, who seems like a good person. You both sound like good people.

[Anonymous]

Depends on her age OP. If she is over 40, she could join a networking group like 40Plus. If under 40, a lot of local universities have programs (if she graduated from one of them) or many churches have networking groups.

It will be very hard for her to find a job as I am sure you know. She may have to really lower her sights and try out in a part-time temp job if she hasn't worked for awhile. Or, if you have a lot of friends or work associates, she could get lucky and have someone looking out for her.

Maybe have her apply for administrative type jobs at some of the local universities or could she sign up to be a substitute teacher?

I'm a retained executive research managing director and a female. I'm afraid to say that the work world is really mean when it comes to women who have taken time off to raise kids. It's very hard to get back in the game once out.

[Anonymous]

Depends on her age OP. If she is over 40, she could join a networking group like 40Plus. If under 40, a lot of local universities have programs (if she graduated from one of them) or many churches have networking groups.

It will be very hard for her to find a job as I am sure you know. She may have to really lower her sights and try out in a part-time temp job if she hasn't worked for awhile. Or, if you have a lot of friends or work associates, she could get lucky and have someone looking out for her.

Maybe have her apply for administrative type jobs at some of the local universities or could she sign up to be a substitute teacher?

I'm a retained executive research managing director and a female. I'm afraid to say that the work world is really mean when it comes to women who have taken time off to raise kids. It's very hard to get back in the game once out.

And you wonder why that sad woman sits in McLean, Bethesda, Friendship Heights wherever just wallowing in depression? This is some hard truth people need to realize if they want to ever work again after taking time off. It's so, so hard to break back in that simply being an unfulfilled shell of a woman starts to look like a not bad solution. Sad.

[Anonymous]

^^It doesn't have to be all or nothing, though. Some of us were able to scale down during the baby/toddler years and then ramp up again (though not at the same level or salary). This is something you need to investigate before you get pregnant, and it may not be an option for all. But it's certainly doable for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

God. I see so many "brilliant" amd highly educated people in this town that simply can't handle real life or excel at a job. I'm a lawyer and interview and hire many people that fit this profile. After years of figuring out that many young lawyers fitting this profile simply can't hack the work and rarely are the ones to excel, I stopped hiring the most "berilliant."

So who do you hire? And how do you justify it?

I will now hire someone that may not have the highest IQ or graduated from top IVY, but is a hard worker, knows how to hit the ground running, doesn't get upset by the slightest setback, and knows how to work hard for what the want. Basically the opposite of OP's wife. Yes, I sound like a jerk, but it's the truth. I see way to many top graduates who somehow feel entitled to the dream job, who have absolutely no idea what it takes to excel in the real real world and simply can't believe they the they aren't snatched on the spot. The best thing OP can do for his wife is in fact to take off the kid gloves and tell DW to grow a pair. As I mentioned, this town is full of over-educated academics. If she wants to get a job she needs to show some real character traits that separate her from the rest.

+1

I have found the same thing. FWIW, I'm in finance not law. But I have noticed a tendency among people with the very highest GPAs from the most well regarded schools to flame out early. The quality you really want to see is perseverance but you can only tease that out in conversation and even then it's just your subjective opinion that a particular candidate has it.

Why not put it on a resume? I haven't finished the thread so maybe this has been discussed, but would you find it shocking to receive a resume organized by work-related personality traits, rather than organizations and job titles?

I am also a WAHM transitioning to a work outside the home career. Right now I do doc review as a contract attorney. My biggest problem with my resume as I see it is a lack of experience. It's ironic actually because I've been working since I was 16 (now 42) and spent many of those years working two jobs, or one job at 60 hours a week. And yet after all this working Im not sure I have many skills to show for it, and certainly not the specific qualifications included in most job descriptions. It's frustrating because raising two children by yourself definitely does involve problem-solving, negotiation and above all time management. Yet how to include that on a resume without looking like a frustrated nutcase? (Which I probably am at this point)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

God. I see so many "brilliant" amd highly educated people in this town that simply can't handle real life or excel at a job. I'm a lawyer and interview and hire many people that fit this profile. After years of figuring out that many young lawyers fitting this profile simply can't hack the work and rarely are the ones to excel, I stopped hiring the most "berilliant."

So who do you hire? And how do you justify it?

I will now hire someone that may not have the highest IQ or graduated from top IVY, but is a hard worker, knows how to hit the ground running, doesn't get upset by the slightest setback, and knows how to work hard for what the want. Basically the opposite of OP's wife. Yes, I sound like a jerk, but it's the truth. I see way to many top graduates who somehow feel entitled to the dream job, who have absolutely no idea what it takes to excel in the real real world and simply can't believe they the they aren't snatched on the spot. The best thing OP can do for his wife is in fact to take off the kid gloves and tell DW to grow a pair. As I mentioned, this town is full of over-educated academics. If she wants to get a job she needs to show some real character traits that separate her from the rest.

+1

I have found the same thing. FWIW, I'm in finance not law. But I have noticed a tendency among people with the very highest GPAs from the most well regarded schools to flame out early. The quality you really want to see is perseverance but you can only tease that out in conversation and even then it's just your subjective opinion that a particular candidate has it.

Why not put it on a resume? I haven't finished the thread so maybe this has been discussed, but would you find it shocking to receive a resume organized by work-related personality traits, rather than organizations and job titles?

I am also a WAHM transitioning to a work outside the home career. Right now I do doc review as a contract attorney. My biggest problem with my resume as I see it is a lack of experience. It's ironic actually because I've been working since I was 16 (now 42) and spent many of those years working two jobs, or one job at 60 hours a week. And yet after all this working Im not sure I have many skills to show for it, and certainly not the specific qualifications included in most job descriptions. It's frustrating because raising two children by yourself definitely does involve problem-solving, negotiation and above all time management. Yet how to include that on a resume without looking like a frustrated nutcase? (Which I probably am at this point)

I was the PP that took 5 years off to SAHM and am now in year 2 of working (in a pretty awesome legal job, but took a big hit in advancement--e.g. making less and in a lower position than what I held when I exited the market).

And, frankly, staying at home is NOTHING like working. So, no, do not equate the two and I would laugh if I saw a resume listing those as "job skills." They just are not even close. You can never be fired as a mother. At least in the law, it's a pretty no-nonsense culture. You need to have balls of steel to re-enter the legal market in this town after taking years off.

Take pro-bono cases. Argue a few cases before an ALJ, you can get tangible skills while you are off at home. I did that-- found a sitter and took several pro-bono cases to show employers that I could perform. It was tough, but so WORTH IT to be back at work. My kids are in school now, and I get so much life satisfaction from knowing I am contributing to the greater good. Again, this is what works for ME. I have many SAHM friends who are happy doing carpool/play dates, they really find fulfillment in that way. If that is not your cup of tea, then hustle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I should start a support group for SAHM who want to go back to work! I recently did it. It is a brutal process but worth it.

What say the rest of the SAHM who went back? Should I create the support group? Is this something your wife would do?

YES!!! Start one now!! I will be the first in line. I have been looking for a few months and have been on a few interviews, but still not sure about things.

Should I go back? How can I find something I really like? Should I go back to school for something else????

+1 Yes, start one. I'm looking. I've been SAHM for 17 years! I have two graduate degrees. Is McDonald's hiring?

[Anonymous]

Jeez, people. Instead of sitting around in a SAHM support group meeting, take some classes, work on your resume, and get out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, people. Instead of sitting around in a SAHM support group meeting, take some classes, work on your resume, and get out there.

+100. It's like these SAHMs are incapable of doing anything of consequence outside of their little domestic bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, people. Instead of sitting around in a SAHM support group meeting, take some classes, work on your resume, and get out there.

Your advice is too general. What the pp proposed is a group for former Sahms who have made it out to meet with current Sahms who want out. The goal would be to share the strategies that worked for the women who found jobs, and to find from others who are still seeking jobs what hasn't worked. That kind of focused networking would be invaluable. Maybe you were thrown by the term "support group."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I will now hire someone that may not have the highest IQ or graduated from top IVY, but is a hard worker, knows how to hit the ground running, doesn't get upset by the slightest setback, and knows how to work hard for what the want. Basically the opposite of OP's wife. Yes, I sound like a jerk, but it's the truth. I see way to many top graduates who somehow feel entitled to the dream job, who have absolutely no idea what it takes to excel in the real real world and simply can't believe they the they aren't snatched on the spot. The best thing OP can do for his wife is in fact to take off the kid gloves and tell DW to grow a pair. As I mentioned, this town is full of over-educated academics. If she wants to get a job she needs to show some real character traits that separate her from the rest.

+1

I have found the same thing. FWIW, I'm in finance not law. But I have noticed a tendency among people with the very highest GPAs from the most well regarded schools to flame out early. The quality you really want to see is perseverance but you can only tease that out in conversation and even then it's just your subjective opinion that a particular candidate has it.

Why not put it on a resume? I haven't finished the thread so maybe this has been discussed, but would you find it shocking to receive a resume organized by work-related personality traits, rather than organizations and job titles?

I am also a WAHM transitioning to a work outside the home career. Right now I do doc review as a contract attorney. My biggest problem with my resume as I see it is a lack of experience. It's ironic actually because I've been working since I was 16 (now 42) and spent many of those years working two jobs, or one job at 60 hours a week. And yet after all this working Im not sure I have many skills to show for it, and certainly not the specific qualifications included in most job descriptions. It's frustrating because raising two children by yourself definitely does involve problem-solving, negotiation and above all time management. Yet how to include that on a resume without looking like a frustrated nutcase? (Which I probably am at this point)

I was the PP that took 5 years off to SAHM and am now in year 2 of working (in a pretty awesome legal job, but took a big hit in advancement--e.g. making less and in a lower position than what I held when I exited the market).

And, frankly, staying at home is NOTHING like working. So, no, do not equate the two and I would laugh if I saw a resume listing those as "job skills." They just are not even close. You can never be fired as a mother. At least in the law, it's a pretty no-nonsense culture. You need to have balls of steel to re-enter the legal market in this town after taking years off.

Take pro-bono cases. Argue a few cases before an ALJ, you can get tangible skills while you are off at home. I did that-- found a sitter and took several pro-bono cases to show employers that I could perform. It was tough, but so WORTH IT to be back at work. My kids are in school now, and I get so much life satisfaction from knowing I am contributing to the greater good. Again, this is what works for ME. I have many SAHM friends who are happy doing carpool/play dates, they really find fulfillment in that way. If that is not your cup of tea, then hustle.

My point was that keeping the piece between two people who operate at the level of a preschooler is actually tricky negotiation and involves a lot of skill communication. Not to mention cleaning, parenting, cooking during the day and then sitting down to work at night when everyone else is asleep. These are qualities that would seem to matter to the previous posters who said they were sick of the entitlement attitude and poor work ethic of Ivy Leaguers. And one of them said there was no way to find out whether a person had these qualities unless it came up in conversation. So I was trying to think of ways to show them.

I have thought about doing pro bono work, but for me personally I do not want to go back to being a full-time attorney. I agree that it is fulfilling work, it's just not an area of interest for me anymore. I'm hoping to transition into human resources or compliance, and searching for jobs that say "JD Preferred" instead of "Required."

[Anonymous]

*peace

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I will now hire someone that may not have the highest IQ or graduated from top IVY, but is a hard worker, knows how to hit the ground running, doesn't get upset by the slightest setback, and knows how to work hard for what the want. Basically the opposite of OP's wife. Yes, I sound like a jerk, but it's the truth. I see way to many top graduates who somehow feel entitled to the dream job, who have absolutely no idea what it takes to excel in the real real world and simply can't believe they the they aren't snatched on the spot. The best thing OP can do for his wife is in fact to take off the kid gloves and tell DW to grow a pair. As I mentioned, this town is full of over-educated academics. If she wants to get a job she needs to show some real character traits that separate her from the rest.

+1

I have found the same thing. FWIW, I'm in finance not law. But I have noticed a tendency among people with the very highest GPAs from the most well regarded schools to flame out early. The quality you really want to see is perseverance but you can only tease that out in conversation and even then it's just your subjective opinion that a particular candidate has it.

Why not put it on a resume? I haven't finished the thread so maybe this has been discussed, but would you find it shocking to receive a resume organized by work-related personality traits, rather than organizations and job titles?

I am also a WAHM transitioning to a work outside the home career. Right now I do doc review as a contract attorney. My biggest problem with my resume as I see it is a lack of experience. It's ironic actually because I've been working since I was 16 (now 42) and spent many of those years working two jobs, or one job at 60 hours a week. And yet after all this working Im not sure I have many skills to show for it, and certainly not the specific qualifications included in most job descriptions. It's frustrating because raising two children by yourself definitely does involve problem-solving, negotiation and above all time management. Yet how to include that on a resume without looking like a frustrated nutcase? (Which I probably am at this point)

I was the PP that took 5 years off to SAHM and am now in year 2 of working (in a pretty awesome legal job, but took a big hit in advancement--e.g. making less and in a lower position than what I held when I exited the market).

And, frankly, staying at home is NOTHING like working. So, no, do not equate the two and I would laugh if I saw a resume listing those as "job skills." They just are not even close. You can never be fired as a mother. At least in the law, it's a pretty no-nonsense culture. You need to have balls of steel to re-enter the legal market in this town after taking years off.

Take pro-bono cases. Argue a few cases before an ALJ, you can get tangible skills while you are off at home. I did that-- found a sitter and took several pro-bono cases to show employers that I could perform. It was tough, but so WORTH IT to be back at work. My kids are in school now, and I get so much life satisfaction from knowing I am contributing to the greater good. Again, this is what works for ME. I have many SAHM friends who are happy doing carpool/play dates, they really find fulfillment in that way. If that is not your cup of tea, then hustle.

My point was that keeping the piece between two people who operate at the level of a preschooler is actually tricky negotiation and involves a lot of skill communication. Not to mention cleaning, parenting, cooking during the day and then sitting down to work at night when everyone else is asleep. These are qualities that would seem to matter to the previous posters who said they were sick of the entitlement attitude and poor work ethic of Ivy Leaguers. And one of them said there was no way to find out whether a person had these qualities unless it came up in conversation. So I was trying to think of ways to show them.

I have thought about doing pro bono work, but for me personally I do not want to go back to being a full-time attorney. I agree that it is fulfilling work, it's just not an area of interest for me anymore. I'm hoping to transition into human resources or compliance, and searching for jobs that say "JD Preferred" instead of "Required."

The problem is that even if you think that adults are 'operating at the level' of a preschooler, they're not, and it's kind of insulting to your possible future co-workers to even imply that. I wouldn't compare having to manage preschoolers with solving adult problems in the workplace even casually in conversation, and definitely never on a resume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, people. Instead of sitting around in a SAHM support group meeting, take some classes, work on your resume, and get out there.

Your advice is too general. What the pp proposed is a group for former Sahms who have made it out to meet with current Sahms who want out. The goal would be to share the strategies that worked for the women who found jobs, and to find from others who are still seeking jobs what hasn't worked. That kind of focused networking would be invaluable. Maybe you were thrown by the term "support group."

I am the now-WOHM from above who was talking about working on emotional resiliency and I think this is a great idea. It could be very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, people. Instead of sitting around in a SAHM support group meeting, take some classes, work on your resume, and get out there.

Your advice is too general. What the pp proposed is a group for former Sahms who have made it out to meet with current Sahms who want out. The goal would be to share the strategies that worked for the women who found jobs, and to find from others who are still seeking jobs what hasn't worked. That kind of focused networking would be invaluable. Maybe you were thrown by the term "support group."

It's difficult to find a job if 1) your skills are outdated and you 2) have a large gap on your resume.

My cousin married young and was out of the workforce for almost 20 years. When here kids were in school FT, I tried to encourage her to take classes, as she had some solid skills she could use toward two career paths.

never did

Now divorced, she's in low-paying job where she's very unhappy.

complete waste