Thoughts on supsending preschool students

[Anonymous]

I am in disbelief in what I'm reading. This article is about the disproportionate number of black kids suspended vs white kids (and all the research shows that this injustice continues on with more black young adults headed for jail).

How in the world are you blaming the the child or the adult? First, all children need to be treated EQUALLY. If that happened, we wouldn't have to discuss whether or not preschoolers should be suspended - they wouldn't.

The white parents and their children did not have to experience the same put downs and punishment as the black parents and their children. This stuff is internalized.

I see it everyday. It's very sad when you see two children who have the exact same behavior - one is punished severely and the other one is given a slap on the wrist. This is ever so present in the criminal justice system.

The prejudices are there clear as day. I have so many stories I could tell where I witnessed the turning point of a great child with a bright future being labelled "bad" due to underlying prejudices. I don't think the people involved had any idea of their prejudices. And even though the adults were different races, classes, etc. - the boys were predominately black.

If you don't know this happens everyday and is a problem, please educate yourselves. AND be aware of your prejudices... we all have them.

And I'm kind of in disbelief that you think this is what the article is about. Everyone knows that there is a disproportionate number of black kids disciplined more harshly than their white counterparts. This has been a sad problem for decades that I still hope we will find a comprehensive solution to. But, this article doesn't discuss any solutions. It doesn't discuss alternatives to suspension and it doesn't examine the phenomenon. The author brings up the stats in order to do one thing only...excuse the obvious troubled and bad behavior by both her sons. Eight suspensions in a year? That is a troubled kid. She'd like you to believe her kids are targeted....but offers nothing to substantiate. Her response to her troubled children? She doesn't condone their behavior, but she disagrees with suspension. OK, but what does she think SHOULD happen?

The problem I have with your post, PP is that you seem to be using the problem of disproportionate punishment to excuse bad behavior. Think about it. Pushing the focus on the punishment takes the focus off the crime. In this case, the crime is very dangerous behavior...throwing a chair. That needs to be, full stop, unacceptable. Once that happens, and the responsibility for the behavior accepted by the parent, support systems can be designed and put in place.

Yes, the responsibility for bad behavior is firmly on the parent. It is an educator's job to educate. If your child enters a classroom displaying dangerous behavior, they are not ready to learn and that is the parent's problem. The parent needs to be motivated to address the behavioral issue (which is why suspensions may not be so bad) and identify and put into place a plan to remedy their child's issues and send a child who is ready to learn to school. Should the school be a partner and be invested in any plan to remedy issues with a student? Absolutely. But it isn't the school's responsibility to parent and it isn't the teacher's fault your kid thinks throwing a chair is a good choice. That's a parent fail.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting that the author (who lives in Omaha) cites two links in the story.

The first link to ACLU "school to prison pipeline" she renames as the "pre-school to prison pipeline".

The second link is to an American Psychological Association article which the author cites, "pictures of AA boys were rated as being 4.5 years older than Caucasian and Latino boys."

The study actually finds that participants "judged children up to 9 years old as equally innocent regardless of race, but considered black children significantly less innocent than other children in every age group beginning at age 10, the researchers found."

[Anonymous]

It may be hard to believe, but I have seen this happen. There are 3- and 4-year-olds who have severe behavior problems such that they present a physical danger to the other children in the classroom (think, poking eyes with pencils-- yes this happens). Without parent cooperation (and even with parent cooperation!), there is only so much a public school can do to help a child in the school setting, at the preschool age. Preschool is not compulsory in DC nor does any preschooler attend as a matter of right. If a preschooler's presence in a classroom is creating a situation where the other preschoolers' safety is at risk, that preschooler should not be permitted to attend school. Of course it is not a preschooler's fault he or she has these problems. But I don't look at the suspension/expulsion as a form punishment. I see it as a way to remove a dangerous situation from a classroom and provide an environment where it is safe for the other children to learn. Having an out-of-control and violent student in a classroom isn't helping anyone.

[Anonymous]

But here we are talking about suspension. Not expulsion.

The only possible good to come from suspending a preschooler or young elementary school child is to give the parents a wake up call. But the kids need help. Otherwise they will be back with no new skills or behaviors. Social and emotional development is the #1 priority in early childhood ed. It may need to be more intensive in some cases. If the school or parents do not address it (by just suspending and or expelling), it will be harder to address later at an older age when habits are more ingrained and others are much further along in their social skills development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It may be hard to believe, but I have seen this happen. There are 3- and 4-year-olds who have severe behavior problems such that they present a physical danger to the other children in the classroom (think, poking eyes with pencils-- yes this happens). Without parent cooperation (and even with parent cooperation!), there is only so much a public school can do to help a child in the school setting, at the preschool age. Preschool is not compulsory in DC nor does any preschooler attend as a matter of right. If a preschooler's presence in a classroom is creating a situation where the other preschoolers' safety is at risk, that preschooler should not be permitted to attend school. Of course it is not a preschooler's fault he or she has these problems. But I don't look at the suspension/expulsion as a form punishment. I see it as a way to remove a dangerous situation from a classroom and provide an environment where it is safe for the other children to learn. Having an out-of-control and violent student in a classroom isn't helping anyone.

+100

As a preschool teacher, part of my job is to ensure the safety of all of my students. When you have a child who is constantly presenting a danger to himself, other students, and the teachers, something has to be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am in disbelief in what I'm reading. This article is about the disproportionate number of black kids suspended vs white kids (and all the research shows that this injustice continues on with more black young adults headed for jail).

How in the world are you blaming the the child or the adult? First, all children need to be treated EQUALLY. If that happened, we wouldn't have to discuss whether or not preschoolers should be suspended - they wouldn't.

The white parents and their children did not have to experience the same put downs and punishment as the black parents and their children. This stuff is internalized.

I see it everyday. It's very sad when you see two children who have the exact same behavior - one is punished severely and the other one is given a slap on the wrist. This is ever so present in the criminal justice system.

The prejudices are there clear as day. I have so many stories I could tell where I witnessed the turning point of a great child with a bright future being labelled "bad" due to underlying prejudices. I don't think the people involved had any idea of their prejudices. And even though the adults were different races, classes, etc. - the boys were predominately black.

If you don't know this happens everyday and is a problem, please educate yourselves. AND be aware of your prejudices... we all have them.

And I'm kind of in disbelief that you think this is what the article is about. Everyone knows that there is a disproportionate number of black kids disciplined more harshly than their white counterparts. This has been a sad problem for decades that I still hope we will find a comprehensive solution to. But, this article doesn't discuss any solutions. It doesn't discuss alternatives to suspension and it doesn't examine the phenomenon. The author brings up the stats in order to do one thing only...excuse the obvious troubled and bad behavior by both her sons. Eight suspensions in a year? That is a troubled kid. She'd like you to believe her kids are targeted....but offers nothing to substantiate. Her response to her troubled children? She doesn't condone their behavior, but she disagrees with suspension. OK, but what does she think SHOULD happen?

The problem I have with your post, PP is that you seem to be using the problem of disproportionate punishment to excuse bad behavior. Think about it. Pushing the focus on the punishment takes the focus off the crime. In this case, the crime is very dangerous behavior...throwing a chair. That needs to be, full stop, unacceptable. Once that happens, and the responsibility for the behavior accepted by the parent, support systems can be designed and put in place.

Yes, the responsibility for bad behavior is firmly on the parent. It is an educator's job to educate. If your child enters a classroom displaying dangerous behavior, they are not ready to learn and that is the parent's problem. The parent needs to be motivated to address the behavioral issue (which is why suspensions may not be so bad) and identify and put into place a plan to remedy their child's issues and send a child who is ready to learn to school. Should the school be a partner and be invested in any plan to remedy issues with a student? Absolutely. But it isn't the school's responsibility to parent and it isn't the teacher's fault your kid thinks throwing a chair is a good choice. That's a parent fail.

Yes..this . As the black mother of black kids, I am very sensitive and aware of how black kids are perceived. HOWEVER, this momma needs to wake up and realize that her kids have behaviour problems and need to be somewhere getting help and not in a classroom causing problems for other kids. SHE IS IN DENIAL!

[Anonymous]

Yes..this . As the black mother of black kids, I am very sensitive and aware of how black kids are perceived. HOWEVER, this momma needs to wake up and realize that her kids have behaviour problems and need to be somewhere getting help and not in a classroom causing problems for other kids. SHE IS IN DENIAL!

+1000

[Anonymous]

+1000 to 13:28

I have to say I was completely sympathetic to the mother's situation for the first part of her story.
I agree that suspending a child of that age for the types of behaviors he exhibited is pretty much insane and it made me furious to hear that happened to her son.
But she totally lost me when she blamed everything on race! Bad, lazy teachers who implement poor policies like suspending three year olds do this to kids that are white, too. It happened to the child of a friend of mine after he knocked over a chair during a tantrum. The kid is blond and blue-eyed.

[Anonymous]

My son was nearly expelled from preschool and we're white. I can't argue with discrimination- I think peole who have never experienced discrimination don't see it when it's right in front of them.

I know from my son's preschool experience that he quickly got a reputation- after a few incidents, we got notes home, conferences, e-mails, son in the principal's etc. at least twice a week. I volunteered occasionally in the class and saw other boys engaging in the same behaviors. I think once the "rep" starts, a kid will get I trouble more frequently, even if other kids do the same thing,

We moved my son to a new preschool for a fresh start. I got a few notes over the span of a year and the teacher said that DS was a sweet kid, slightly immature, and behaviorally in the middle of the pack. No problems in K or 1st.

None of this excuses hitting a teacher or throwing a chair, and I'm not trying to say it's no big deal. I do wonder however, if after one or two incidents, the teacher may have been on guard and ready to punish more bad behavior.

[Anonymous]

Do you want your kids in a classroom with a violent child who throws chairs.

NO!

[Anonymous]

Sometimes suspensions are used more as a lesson for the parents than the students. Some parents need to have the behavior affect them personally (scrambling to find childcare or having to miss work) in order to see that the behavior that caused it is serious. In my experience, parents can attend conference after conference promising to address what's been going on via counseling or just enforcing consequences at home and they don't follow through. Sometimes what works best is forcing parents to deal with the consequences. Suspensions do nothing for small children. Unless they love school they don't see missing school as a punishment. But sometimes it forces the parents to be involved in solving the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son was nearly expelled from preschool and we're white. I can't argue with discrimination- I think peole who have never experienced discrimination don't see it when it's right in front of them.

I know from my son's preschool experience that he quickly got a reputation- after a few incidents, we got notes home, conferences, e-mails, son in the principal's etc. at least twice a week. I volunteered occasionally in the class and saw other boys engaging in the same behaviors. I think once the "rep" starts, a kid will get I trouble more frequently, even if other kids do the same thing,

We moved my son to a new preschool for a fresh start. I got a few notes over the span of a year and the teacher said that DS was a sweet kid, slightly immature, and behaviorally in the middle of the pack. No problems in K or 1st.

None of this excuses hitting a teacher or throwing a chair, and I'm not trying to say it's no big deal. I do wonder however, if after one or two incidents, the teacher may have been on guard and ready to punish more bad behavior.

Teachers don't give suspensions. Administrators are the ones who give suspensions.

[Anonymous]

You've got to remember: kids who throw chairs are setting examples for other kids.

[Anonymous]

The writer did not give much background information on her child's behavior prior to this. This might not have been a first offense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've got to remember: kids who throw chairs are setting examples for other kids.

+1. My DS's behavior got so bad, imitating some of the other children in his preschool class, that I pulled him. None of those children were suspended or asked to leave, but maybe they should have been.