Thoughts on supsending preschool students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with OP and PP--I don't see how suspending a preschooler is at all appropriate or helpful.

Then what is the alternative. Mom would be more pissed if they moved him to a class for kids with behavioral problems.

You can do interventions on children in a classroom setting. You don't have to move them. In situations where a child is exhibting difficult or extreme behaviors the parents, taechers and school support staff should convene for a SST meeting and create a behavioral plan for the kid and see if he needs different support systems (counseling? being tested for special education) The hard thing is that sometimes parents (paticuaraly in low SES backgrounds) are resistant to their child being labeled in any way even though having an IEP or 504 plan can do more to help a kid.

Do you want your kids in a classroom with a violent child who throws chairs.

That's the thing -- you've got to protect the other children first. OK, so maybe you don't send the disruptive kid home to a bod situation, but you do something with them - you don't leave them there to tear up the classroom. How is that good for anyone?

[Anonymous]

So the other kids have to be in a classroom with this kind of violent behavior? Or you think the school should hire a teacher just for this one child?

This is not compulsory public elementary education. This is optional preschool. If this is happening repeatedly, the problem is the parentingand the kid should be removed from the school so the other kids can get what their parents are paying for.

[Anonymous]

This is so typical... Black child acts up in school, gets suspended and mother is shocked, upset and plays the race card. A child should not be throwing chairs in school/preschool. If the child is doing this at school, I'm sure he is doing it at home too. Mom is in denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with OP and PP--I don't see how suspending a preschooler is at all appropriate or helpful.

Then what is the alternative. Mom would be more pissed if they moved him to a class for kids with behavioral problems.

You can do interventions on children in a classroom setting. You don't have to move them. In situations where a child is exhibting difficult or extreme behaviors the parents, taechers and school support staff should convene for a SST meeting and create a behavioral plan for the kid and see if he needs different support systems (counseling? being tested for special education) The hard thing is that sometimes parents (paticuaraly in low SES backgrounds) are resistant to their child being labeled in any way even though having an IEP or 504 plan can do more to help a kid.

Do you want your kids in a classroom with a violent child who throws chairs.

That's the thing -- you've got to protect the other children first. OK, so maybe you don't send the disruptive kid home to a bod situation, but you do something with them - you don't leave them there to tear up the classroom. How is that good for anyone?

DP - the PP who said you can do interventions in a classroom setting is absolutely correct. That doesn't have to mean the same classroom the child was learning in when they started disruptive behavior. An elementary school serious about managing all kids needs a room or rooms to send the child to, staffed by TRAINED staff who understand age-appropriate behavior modification and have been trained to do it. They also need staff who will not just call the parent once or send one letter, but keep calling or doing a home visit (if the behavior is recurring) to engage the parents. This takes further resources that most DCPS elementaries do not have room for in their budgets. Yes, I know... DC has highest per pupil funding. That doesn't mean it all goes to the schools. I'm not an insider so can't tell you where the money does go, but I have been in elementary schools all over DC and I know they don't have this staffing and some don't have any extra classrooms. The ones with the worst scores and most discipline issues: they need these resources desperately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mom was looking for attention to write a story. I'd be embarrassed to admit my child was behaving like that in school. If the child acted like that in school, he should be suspended, regardless of race. Mom need to focus on parenting and look at what is going on at home and school for them to behave that way. I would fully expect my child to be suspended if they behaved that way. Why should they get a free pass over race? Since when is it ok to do things like hit and throw chairs at school?

I don't see the value in suspending a 3yo. My son was bitten twice last year in his 3's classroom. Surely that's worse than tossing a chair at nothing. The kids were seperated and it was discussed at the time, but there was no "suspension". I think that's a ridiculous punishment at that age. I'm not one to see racism at every corner, but this story definitely makes me pause and think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the other kids have to be in a classroom with this kind of violent behavior? Or you think the school should hire a teacher just for this one child?

This is not compulsory public elementary education. This is optional preschool. If this is happening repeatedly, the problem is the parentingand the kid should be removed from the school so the other kids can get what their parents are paying for.

You can huff and puff all you want. At the end of the day DCPS has a responsibility to educate ALL CHILDREN who attend their schools, and to do what they can within reason to manage behaviors. It is useful and usually actually harmful to suspend kids this young. It does nothing to address the behaviors that got them in trouble, usually reinforces those behaviors, and pretty much gives up on those children at what, 3?? 4?? 5 yrs old???

Kids that young, even the ones with serious issues, need to be engaged and at least an attempt to work with them before they are abandoned. No, DCPS is not a mental health agency. But it is a certainty when running schools in urban environments with poverty-stricken communities that you will get a signficant number of kids with troubling behaviors, and the school system should be ready to do some basic management of those behaviors before essentially kicking the kid out.

And regarding the bolded, so you are assuming that the parents of the kids acting up, none of them pay taxes either? Only the "good kids" are from families that pay taxes, so suspend the "bad kids" forever because they didn't earn their right to this education either?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the other kids have to be in a classroom with this kind of violent behavior? Or you think the school should hire a teacher just for this one child?

This is not compulsory public elementary education. This is optional preschool. If this is happening repeatedly, the problem is the parentingand the kid should be removed from the school so the other kids can get what their parents are paying for.

You can huff and puff all you want. At the end of the day DCPS has a responsibility to educate ALL CHILDREN who attend their schools, and to do what they can within reason to manage behaviors. It is useLESS and usually actually harmful to suspend kids this young. It does nothing to address the behaviors that got them in trouble, usually reinforces those behaviors, and pretty much gives up on those children at what, 3?? 4?? 5 yrs old???

Kids that young, even the ones with serious issues, need to be engaged and at least an attempt to work with them before they are abandoned. No, DCPS is not a mental health agency. But it is a certainty when running schools in urban environments with poverty-stricken communities that you will get a signficant number of kids with troubling behaviors, and the school system should be ready to do some basic management of those behaviors before essentially kicking the kid out.

And regarding the bolded, so you are assuming that the parents of the kids acting up, none of them pay taxes either? Only the "good kids" are from families that pay taxes, so suspend the "bad kids" forever because they didn't earn their right to this education either?

Posted again to correct "useless"

[Anonymous]

So, given they are not going to hire extra staff and I can't imagine most of the parents are willing to be in the classroom to help manage the behaviors, what is the proposal to keep all the kids, including the acting up child and teachers safe? Sadly, this is their only option. I would support my child being suspended but I would be the parent in the classroom daily trying to figure out what is going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the other kids have to be in a classroom with this kind of violent behavior? Or you think the school should hire a teacher just for this one child?
This is not compulsory public elementary education. This is optional preschool. If this is happening repeatedly, the problem is the parentingand the kid should be removed from the school so the other kids can get what their parents are paying for.

You can huff and puff all you want. At the end of the day DCPS has a responsibility to educate ALL CHILDREN who attend their schools, and to do what they can within reason to manage behaviors. It is useful and usually actually harmful to suspend kids this young. It does nothing to address the behaviors that got them in trouble, usually reinforces those behaviors, and pretty much gives up on those children at what, 3?? 4?? 5 yrs old???

Kids that young, even the ones with serious issues, need to be engaged and at least an attempt to work with them before they are abandoned. No, DCPS is not a mental health agency. But it is a certainty when running schools in urban environments with poverty-stricken communities that you will get a signficant number of kids with troubling behaviors, and the school system should be ready to do some basic management of those behaviors before essentially kicking the kid out.

And regarding the bolded, so you are assuming that the parents of the kids acting up, none of them pay taxes either? Only the "good kids" are from families that pay taxes, so suspend the "bad kids" forever because they didn't earn their right to this education either?

But isn't this Nebraska? Not DC? If it is Nebraska it is very likely private preschool that parents are paying for NOT taxpayer funded public pre school.

[Anonymous]

Yes, the kid with behavioral issues needs intervention, counselors, social workers, and someone to kick his/her parents in their lazy butts. I doubt Grosso with his bill every spent a week in a school where this occurs to figure out that more than just passing a law prohibiting suspensions is what's needed. What about funding support services too????? Otherwise the kid will be doing detentions in prison, later, and inflicting society with the results of a disturbed childhood...... This isn't rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the other kids have to be in a classroom with this kind of violent behavior? Or you think the school should hire a teacher just for this one child?
This is not compulsory public elementary education. This is optional preschool. If this is happening repeatedly, the problem is the parentingand the kid should be removed from the school so the other kids can get what their parents are paying for.

You can huff and puff all you want. At the end of the day DCPS has a responsibility to educate ALL CHILDREN who attend their schools, and to do what they can within reason to manage behaviors. It is useful and usually actually harmful to suspend kids this young. It does nothing to address the behaviors that got them in trouble, usually reinforces those behaviors, and pretty much gives up on those children at what, 3?? 4?? 5 yrs old???

Kids that young, even the ones with serious issues, need to be engaged and at least an attempt to work with them before they are abandoned. No, DCPS is not a mental health agency. But it is a certainty when running schools in urban environments with poverty-stricken communities that you will get a signficant number of kids with troubling behaviors, and the school system should be ready to do some basic management of those behaviors before essentially kicking the kid out.

And regarding the bolded, so you are assuming that the parents of the kids acting up, none of them pay taxes either? Only the "good kids" are from families that pay taxes, so suspend the "bad kids" forever because they didn't earn their right to this education either?

But isn't this Nebraska? Not DC? If it is Nebraska it is very likely private preschool that parents are paying for NOT taxpayer funded public pre school.

Wherever the article is from, I'm applying this to where this forum functions: DC.

[Anonymous]

I think the child probably has sensory or mild autism but I don't think the parents are getting the treatment needed to help the child.

[Anonymous]

It's probably not the case with the child in this article, but a huge problem is lack of sleep making little kids cranky and in some cases violent. I personally know of two kids this age who were suspended from daycare where the main issue was that mom and dad had to get everyone up really, really early to get everyone to school and work, sometimes via public transportation. I think that the bad performance of many neighborhood schools driving families to commute further in search of better schools has a downside in that it makes it harder to get kids enough sleep. I'd love to see DC do a public education campaign on the importance of proper sleep, and to get to the point where all neighborhood schools are good schools.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of assumptions being made here on all sides. That's to be expected from parents, but I would expect a school to have better resources and tools at their disposal to address the problem long before they resort to the last-ditch effort of suspension.

Most kids exhibiting disruptive behavior are not "problem kids". In almost all cases, it's a kid with a problem. And with preschoolers, we're talking kids who are just beginning to understand their emotions and don't have many coping mechanisms.

When I think of my own 4 year old, he's a really good kid who has moments but they're usually stemming from something I can fix: he's hungry, didn't get enough sleep, frustrated, nervous about a new situation. Then there are slightly more difficult issues that take some sleuthing, like when he went days without eating because he had an undiscovered food allergy to something I put in his lunch every day. Because he didn't want to sit still in front of something that was making him sick, he got up and walked around picking at others' food with predictable conflicts ensuing. Or when he stopped liking aftercare (something he'd previously loved) when the 3 boys he'd always played with started excluding him. Out of the blue, he started throwing unbelievable tantrums at pick up time. Not because he'd turned into a problem kid, but because he was distressed about something and needed my attention.

But if the assumption is just that he's a bad kid with bad parents? That's compounding a problem, not solving it. Preschool educators need to be about solving it. That's one place where youthful exuberance in a teacher is great, but experience in classroom management is more important. Teacher-student ratio is also a factor and that means the teacher should be getting more help, training and/or resources, not kicking kids out of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the child probably has sensory or mild autism but I don't think the parents are getting the treatment needed to help the child.

Generally, if a preschool kid has this many behavior issues, the school recommends an evaluation (at their expense - no cost to parents). But it's up to the parents to take the school's advice. Not all do b/c they don't want their kid "labeled" but no diagnosis, no IEP, no help or supports for the kid. What more can the school do?