Correlation of SES status, race, and FARMS with test scores and disruptiveness?

[Anonymous]

and let us not even get into privatization of prisons, falsifying evidence to arrest and convict folks to fill the prisons and trust me it will not be white.

talk about conspiracy theories

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

and let us not even get into privatization of prisons, falsifying evidence to arrest and convict folks to fill the prisons and trust me it will not be white.

talk about conspiracy theories

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall, the data for most major cities in the US shows a clear trend of of violent crime that is disproportionately high in low-income AA neighborhoods as compared to neighborhoods with other demographics - and it's highest among young AA males. As such, is it any surprise that police would be far more suspicious of and far more likely to target anyone who resembles a young low-income AA male? I don't like that trend either, but until things change, that's going to be the perception out there. The government's solution is to arrest, harrass and intimidate. If you want other solutions, those are going to have to come from within the AA community itself.

Either that, or the government could stop arresting, harassing, and intimidating. If you don't like the trend, don't accept it. Work to change it.

It's not a "chicken or egg" thing, doesn't work that way. Police react to crime and arrest, that's their job, and they surveil and watch potential suspects in high-crime circumstances. I wouldn't count on them to stop profiling or targeting until AA violent crime is no longer disproportionate to crime in other demographics. Blaming police for the violence within the AA community is a cop-out.

Good grief. "The AA community"? Which community is that? Are you part of "the white community"? Or "the Asian community"?

Anyway, I am not blaming police for violence among poor African-Americans, and I don't think that anybody else on this thread was either. What I am blaming police for is carrying out institutional racism.

Have you seen this video?

http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000001601732/the-scars-of-stop-and-frisk.html

It may be your idea of justice that this young man just has to deal with it, because he is a young African-American man, and young African-American men murder each other a lot -- and if he doesn't like it, it's his responsibility to get other young African-American men to stop murdering each other. It's not my idea of justice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

and let us not even get into privatization of prisons, falsifying evidence to arrest and convict folks to fill the prisons and trust me it will not be white.

talk about conspiracy theories

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html

Dick Chaney owns a profit share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

and let us not even get into privatization of prisons, falsifying evidence to arrest and convict folks to fill the prisons and trust me it will not be white.

talk about conspiracy theories

http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2011/08/12/pennsylvania-judge-gets-life-sentence-for-prison-kickback-scheme/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

and let us not even get into privatization of prisons, falsifying evidence to arrest and convict folks to fill the prisons and trust me it will not be white.

talk about conspiracy theories

http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2011/08/12/pennsylvania-judge-gets-life-sentence-for-prison-kickback-scheme/

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2012/10/chemist-arrested-forensics-drug-samples

[Anonymous]

Thank you PP for the very thoughtful and personal post. It is very enlightening and your suggestions sound valid. I hope we keep up these conversations and folks can get a real, true understanding of the problem. It's unbelievable that the issues you experienced many years ago are still issues today. I'm sure some things have helped (providing food, IEPs, etc.) but looks like we have a long way to go!

Anonymous wrote:

I would love for someone to do a true study showing correlation (but more important showing what options work in leveling the playing field, if any). What needs to happen to bring a kid who is disrupting class out of whatever issue he/she is having to perform better? Are we talking lots more psychologists? Are you talking master teachers? More volunteers in the classroom? Classes devoting to addressing specific behaviors?

For the teachers that teach this population, can you answer this?

This is really tough. I taught these kids and I do not have the answer.
I taught this population many years ago as a young new college graduate. I am Caucasian.
First, I also had some white children in my class who had the same problems. In fact, one of the white moms got in a fight with the (white) school bus driver and put her in the hospital. The kids were on the playground before school and witnessed the fight. That is an example of the problem and the environment in which some of these kids live. Do not think that white kids are exempt. And, while almost all the AA children that I taught lived in the projects , they weren’t all behavior problems. However, more were than were not.
Many of these kids fought a lot. We were told (by the “experts” that they didn’t have toys, so they “manipulate” each other.) I think that is BS from professors who are not dealing with the problem. Kids who see violence in their homes will express it themselves. It is very hard to establish rules in school when there are no rules at home. One of my students had her dad killed in a bar fight (knife). Another’s nineteen year old brother was arrested for a violent rape. These two young girls were among the better behaved and were sweet children. It breaks your heart when you see these issues. Most of my students was struggling in school. I had a meeting with a dad about trying to help her a little extra at home. The next day she came in with strap marks on her legs—I never gave her a bad grade again.
I taught first grade in Florida before K was mandatory. Many of the kids I taught did not even know the names of the colors. I spent time teaching “inside and outside”, “over and under”—basic concepts that these children should have known at three.
Most of the kids I taught were on welfare and just about all were on free lunch. A few were on reduced lunch, as I recall. They may not have eaten properly, but I never felt that they were malnourished or hungry. I do not know that for a fact, however. I will say that we had a terrific dietician at our school with superb food, so the kids did get healthy food that tasted great for lunch. This is a rarity in a public school.
It is hard to explain to people who have not been a class like those I taught, just how difficult it is to get the kids’ attention and keep them on task. I did have kids that did great—some of them from the poorest homes. One of the smartest I taught had a mother who was a prostitute. He started at the bottom of my class and rose to the top in one year. However, most of the kids struggled and definitely were not going to be on a college track. They had not been read to. They had not been talked to—they had been yelled at and that is what they expected. It is hard to teach a reading group when you have other kids pestering each other. This was before IEP’S and I am sure that many of these kids would have had them.
Sadly, this was forty years ago, and, from what I see, little has changed.
My suggestions: start in the hospital with educating the parents about the right way to talk to their babies. . Public service announcements on television and the radio about the best way to handle your child. Stress the importance of reading to your child and parenting classes. I think parenting classes would be more valuable than preschool. Teach middle school kids and elementary school kids about how to talk and help their younger siblings. Teach parenting classes in high school. Get the rappers and the hip hoppers involved. Get the preachers to step up more.
Barack Obama should talk about this. Other AA leaders should, as well. It is the culture—though the problems are not limited to the African American community. Throwing money at the schools won’t change things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall, the data for most major cities in the US shows a clear trend of of violent crime that is disproportionately high in low-income AA neighborhoods as compared to neighborhoods with other demographics - and it's highest among young AA males. As such, is it any surprise that police would be far more suspicious of and far more likely to target anyone who resembles a young low-income AA male? I don't like that trend either, but until things change, that's going to be the perception out there. The government's solution is to arrest, harrass and intimidate. If you want other solutions, those are going to have to come from within the AA community itself.

Either that, or the government could stop arresting, harassing, and intimidating. If you don't like the trend, don't accept it. Work to change it.

It's not a "chicken or egg" thing, doesn't work that way. Police react to crime and arrest, that's their job, and they surveil and watch potential suspects in high-crime circumstances. I wouldn't count on them to stop profiling or targeting until AA violent crime is no longer disproportionate to crime in other demographics. Blaming police for the violence within the AA community is a cop-out.

your entire post is a cop out. whites commit crimes too, and they are not profiled. Innocent AA's and Latinos are constantly profiled even when they are doing nothing, and let us not even get into privatization of prisons, falsifying evidence to arrest and convict folks to fill the prisons and trust me it will not be white.

Bullshit, if you don't think cops don't target and profile certain groups of whites, for example bikers, trailer park folks trash they suspect of brewing meth, Italian-Americans suspected of being involved in organized crime, white supremacists, et cetera. Check FBI - there's tons of categories of white folks that they profile, intimidate, harrass and routinely arrest on the weakest of charges. You must seriously be living under a rock if you think whites are so untouchable. Yes, privatized prisons are a problem but again, that's NOT about race - check this out, the "Kids for Cash" scandal involving a privatized juvenile detention center - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal - those were overwhelmingly WHITE kids getting railroaded and sent there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Bullshit, if you don't think cops don't target and profile certain groups of whites, for example bikers, trailer park folks trash they suspect of brewing meth, Italian-Americans suspected of being involved in organized crime, white supremacists, et cetera. Check FBI - there's tons of categories of white folks that they profile, intimidate, harrass and routinely arrest on the weakest of charges. You must seriously be living under a rock if you think whites are so untouchable. Yes, privatized prisons are a problem but again, that's NOT about race - check this out, the "Kids for Cash" scandal involving a privatized juvenile detention center - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal - those were overwhelmingly WHITE kids getting railroaded and sent there.

If you agree that police profile, intimidate, and harass people with certain kinds of characteristics (white bikers, white people who live in trailer parks, Italian-Americans), why is it such a stretch to acknowledge that police also profile, intimidate and harass people with other kinds of characteristics (black people, Latino people)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Bullshit, if you don't think cops don't target and profile certain groups of whites, for example bikers, trailer park folks trash they suspect of brewing meth, Italian-Americans suspected of being involved in organized crime, white supremacists, et cetera. Check FBI - there's tons of categories of white folks that they profile, intimidate, harrass and routinely arrest on the weakest of charges. You must seriously be living under a rock if you think whites are so untouchable. Yes, privatized prisons are a problem but again, that's NOT about race - check this out, the "Kids for Cash" scandal involving a privatized juvenile detention center - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal - those were overwhelmingly WHITE kids getting railroaded and sent there.

If you agree that police profile, intimidate, and harass people with certain kinds of characteristics (white bikers, white people who live in trailer parks, Italian-Americans), why is it such a stretch to acknowledge that police also profile, intimidate and harass people with other kinds of characteristics (black people, Latino people)?

If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch. If you are arresting criminals, you generally go where the crimes are.

[Anonymous]

I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should stop being a pumpkin? He should move out of the pumpkin patch?

There's also the issue, of course, that white bikers can sell their motorcycles, and white trailer-park residents can (maybe) find somewhere else to live, whereas black people can -- what? stop being black?

[Anonymous]

I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should stop being a pumpkin? He should move out of the pumpkin patch?

There's also the issue, of course, that white bikers can sell their motorcycles, and white trailer-park residents can (maybe) find somewhere else to live, whereas black people can -- what? stop being black?
[Report Post]

Most of the arrests are in African American neighborhoods. Guess what, most of the victims are African American. Why don't you read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should stop being a pumpkin? He should move out of the pumpkin patch?

There's also the issue, of course, that white bikers can sell their motorcycles, and white trailer-park residents can (maybe) find somewhere else to live, whereas black people can -- what? stop being black?
[Report Post]

Most of the arrests are in African American neighborhoods. Guess what, most of the victims are African American. Why don't you read?

What am I missing? There's a lot of crime in African-American neighborhoods, therefore police abuse of power in African-American neighborhoods is ok? I've read plenty of stuff like that already, thanks. I just don't agree with it.

[Anonymous]

I'm the previous AA poster who was profiled several times - not in a black community. Once on the highway heading to work (pulled over and harassed by police who asked to search my car). Once heading to a friend's house. Once in my neighborhood which is predominately white. Same thing happened to some of my friends as well. Cops were white and black.

It's a reflection on how police (and others) value or don't value those in our community (or value them over others).

Just imagine if you were continuously targeted because of your red hair, or you drive a certain color car, or any other arbitrary thing. The only thing is that I can't change the color of my skin.

Race is the sole reason that I am targeted - no other reason. I drive same type of car as many others. Nothing about me stands out but color. To say that, I just have to deal with it because I happened to have been born this way is ridiculous. The same argument used against women's groups and others who wanted to be treated fairly. I want to be treated fairly. It's demoralizing - which I think is the point.

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:



If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch. If you are arresting criminals, you generally go where the crimes are.

[Anonymous]

Regarding this whole "police abuse" stuff, realize that out of the thousands and thousands of law enforcement out there on the job, the actual cases of police abuse are few and far between. I looked this up a while back - Cato Institute has independently compiled data on instances of police abuse - and as libertarians, they are not favorable to a police state so there's no reason to believe the data they compiled would be favorable to the police. If you compare that Cato data on police as a ratio using the number of law enforcement out there (I used Bureau of Labor Statistics) as compared to instances of violent crime in the general public (based on FBI national crime stats) as a ratio of the public as a whole (using Census data) it turns out that the general public is 46 times more likely to commit an act of violence than a cop is, and overall that the average American is several thousand times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime from some fellow civilian than he is to be the victim of police abuse.