Correlation of SES status, race, and FARMS with test scores and disruptiveness?

[Anonymous]

There's a very skewed perception of police out there.

When a police officer oversteps or engages in brutality or criminality, it's instantly all over the national news. And it should be, because they should be sworn to uphold the law, not break it.

But you never hear a word in the news about the hundreds of thousands of instances of cops doing good each and every single day, because that's just them doing their jobs - it's not considered newsworthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding this whole "police abuse" stuff, realize that out of the thousands and thousands of law enforcement out there on the job, the actual cases of police abuse are few and far between. I looked this up a while back - Cato Institute has independently compiled data on instances of police abuse - and as libertarians, they are not favorable to a police state so there's no reason to believe the data they compiled would be favorable to the police. If you compare that Cato data on police as a ratio using the number of law enforcement out there (I used Bureau of Labor Statistics) as compared to instances of violent crime in the general public (based on FBI national crime stats) as a ratio of the public as a whole (using Census data) it turns out that the general public is 46 times more likely to commit an act of violence than a cop is, and overall that the average American is several thousand times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime from some fellow civilian than he is to be the victim of police abuse.

Were we talking about police committing violent crimes?

I thought that we were talking about police and courts treating people differently depending on their race.

[Anonymous]

As true as that may be, poll AAs and Latinos. Why in the world do they over-index in being targeted unfairly? Whether in crime-ridden communities or not? Why is this happening?

[Anonymous]

PP is in reference to 20:11

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should stop being a pumpkin? He should move out of the pumpkin patch?

There's also the issue, of course, that white bikers can sell their motorcycles, and white trailer-park residents can (maybe) find somewhere else to live, whereas black people can -- what? stop being black?

It's not about being black, it's about culture. Do you really think a Pagans enforcer will suddenly become gentle, clean, sober and civilized the minute you take him off of his Hog? What about the guy with the Aryan Brotherhood prison tattoos all over him. You think cops won't instantly recognize that for what it is and consider him a likely threat?

Consider for example that it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between an AA who grew up in DC vs. one who moved here from abroad, say Trinidad or Nigeria - before they even say a word. It's in how they carry themselves, walk, interact, et cetera. You can likewise tell the difference in how high-SES AAs carry themselves, walk, interact vs how a low-SES person in DC would.

The difference is not skin color, it's cultural, and it's those cultural differences even within populations that cops take far more note of than anything else.

[Anonymous]

So 20:35, you are saying that police specifically target high-SES AAs? Why is that?

[Anonymous]

You are wrong. It is not cultural. It's historical and systemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So 20:35, you are saying that police specifically target high-SES AAs? Why is that?

No, that's not what was said.

Cops are most likely to keep an eye on a group of young AA males hanging out somewhere acting ghetto. Just as they'd keep an eye on something like a group of white outlaw bikers or a group of Latinos with gang tattoos.

A high-SES AA wouldn't be on his radar as a potential threat.

Now that wasn't really so difficult to understand, was it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are wrong. It is not cultural. It's historical and systemic.

Wow, I keep feeling like I'm getting sucked into a time machine and sent back to 1968.

This isn't 1968, is it?

Oh, it's 2013. Thank goodness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous AA poster who was profiled several times - not in a black community. Once on the highway heading to work (pulled over and harassed by police who asked to search my car). Once heading to a friend's house. Once in my neighborhood which is predominately white. Same thing happened to some of my friends as well. Cops were white and black.

It's a reflection on how police (and others) value or don't value those in our community (or value them over others).

Just imagine if you were continuously targeted because of your red hair, or you drive a certain color car, or any other arbitrary thing. The only thing is that I can't change the color of my skin.

Race is the sole reason that I am targeted - no other reason. I drive same type of car as many others. Nothing about me stands out but color. To say that, I just have to deal with it because I happened to have been born this way is ridiculous. The same argument used against women's groups and others who wanted to be treated fairly. I want to be treated fairly. It's demoralizing - which I think is the point.

The fact that people don't believe you is pretty appalling. As is the turn this thread had taken. Didn't expect that people here would just flat out deny that institutional racism exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So 20:35, you are saying that police specifically target high-SES AAs? Why is that?

No, that's not what was said.

Cops are most likely to keep an eye on a group of young AA males hanging out somewhere acting ghetto. Just as they'd keep an eye on something like a group of white outlaw bikers or a group of Latinos with gang tattoos.

A high-SES AA wouldn't be on his radar as a potential threat.

Now that wasn't really so difficult to understand, was it?

For the ghetto PP, it probably was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should stop being a pumpkin? He should move out of the pumpkin patch?

There's also the issue, of course, that white bikers can sell their motorcycles, and white trailer-park residents can (maybe) find somewhere else to live, whereas black people can -- what? stop being black?

It's not about being black, it's about culture. Do you really think a Pagans enforcer will suddenly become gentle, clean, sober and civilized the minute you take him off of his Hog? What about the guy with the Aryan Brotherhood prison tattoos all over him. You think cops won't instantly recognize that for what it is and consider him a likely threat?

Consider for example that it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between an AA who grew up in DC vs. one who moved here from abroad, say Trinidad or Nigeria - before they even say a word. It's in how they carry themselves, walk, interact, et cetera. You can likewise tell the difference in how high-SES AAs carry themselves, walk, interact vs how a low-SES person in DC would.

The difference is not skin color, it's cultural, and it's those cultural differences even within populations that cops take far more note of than anything else.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. I really don't.

You agree that the police do a bunch of bad stuff, at our expense, in our name, and then you say, "If you are going to pick pumpkins, you go to a pumpkin patch."? That's your solution for the kid in New York? He should /quote]

It's not about being black, it's about culture. Do you really think a Pagans enforcer will suddenly become gentle, clean, sober and civilized the minute you take him off of his Hog? What about the guy with the Aryan Brotherhood prison tattoos all over him. You think cops won't instantly recognize that for what it is and consider him a likely threat?

Consider for example that it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference between an AA who grew up in DC vs. one who moved here from abroad, say Trinidad or Nigeria - before they even say a word. It's in how they carry themselves, walk, interact, et cetera. You can likewise tell the difference in how high-SES AAs carry themselves, walk, interact vs how a low-SES person in DC would.

The difference is not skin color, it's cultural, and it's those cultural differences even within populations that cops take far more note of than anything else.

Yes, please tell that fairytale to the Abner Louima and Amadou Diallos. They would strongly disagree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So 20:35, you are saying that police specifically target high-SES AAs? Why is that?

No, that's not what was said.

Cops are most likely to keep an eye on a group of young AA males hanging out somewhere acting ghetto. Just as they'd keep an eye on something like a group of white outlaw bikers or a group of Latinos with gang tattoos.

A high-SES AA wouldn't be on his radar as a potential threat.

Now that wasn't really so difficult to understand, was it?

Real actual African-Americans, with (unlike you) a lifetime's worth of experience being African-American, are telling you that that's not true. Why don't you believe them?

[Anonymous]

That is NOT true. Ask your high-SES AA friends. I, some of my family members, and many of my friends are high-SES and have been targeted. This is why AAs get so mad. You have no idea what you are talking about. High-SES AAs are regularly targeted. I have police officers in my family and they would tell you the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So 20:35, you are saying that police specifically target high-SES AAs? Why is that?

No, that's not what was said.

Cops are most likely to keep an eye on a group of young AA males hanging out somewhere acting ghetto. Just as they'd keep an eye on something like a group of white outlaw bikers or a group of Latinos with gang tattoos.

A high-SES AA wouldn't be on his radar as a potential threat.

Now that wasn't really so difficult to understand, was it?