Correlation of SES status, race, and FARMS with test scores and disruptiveness?

[Anonymous]

It seems that posters on DCUM freely assume when evaluating school quality that predominantly low SES/high FARMS rate/majority AA = bad test scores/disruptive in the classroom. What basis in science does this have? If there is strong correlation, is it universal or specific to certain cities, regions or situations? I'm just trying to get a hold on the facts and separating them from baseless fearmongering and prejudice.

[Anonymous]

Yes, poverty affects behavior.

http://www.ascd.org/publications/books/109074/chapters/How-Poverty-Affects-Behavior-and-Academic-Performance.aspx

[Anonymous]

have you been in non-nw dcps? nuf said.

[Anonymous]

My 3 yr old son is extremely disruptive. So disruptive that we've recently been thrown out of preschool. In response, I'm going through Child Find, he's been evaluated by a dev pediatrician, and we are having an OT and SLP evaluation done. A friend of mine is an SLP for the county. I asked her to evaluate my son's language prior to the Child Find evaluation. She did and said that yes, there is a problem, but it's not enough to qualify for county intervention. Meanwhile, his language issue is impacting his behavior at school enough to get him kicked out.

I have health insurance that covers a lot of this and can afford to pay out of pocket for the therapy's that my son will need in order to get him ready for K. I also have a flexible job that allows me to take time off to take my son to various dr appts. But I did ask--what happens to people in my situation who cannot afford the necessary therapy's and early interventions and are not found eligible by the county?

The response--those children go to K and spend the first semester in the principals office and being sent home. Then, once they've demonstrated that they can no longer access the curriculum, the county will step in. Of course, once in school, it takes a while to get a 504 or an IEP in place and finding the right school for your child's needs that has space available is a challenge.

So yes, I think there is a correlation between SES and disruptiveness. If you don't have the money to get dx and therapy's, then you send your disruptive child off to school.

[Anonymous]

My 3 yr old son is extremely disruptive. So disruptive that we've recently been thrown out of preschool. In response, I'm going through Child Find, he's been evaluated by a dev pediatrician, and we are having an OT and SLP evaluation done. A friend of mine is an SLP for the county. I asked her to evaluate my son's language prior to the Child Find evaluation. She did and said that yes, there is a problem, but it's not enough to qualify for county intervention. Meanwhile, his language issue is impacting his behavior at school enough to get him kicked out.

I have health insurance that covers a lot of this and can afford to pay out of pocket for the therapy's that my son will need in order to get him ready for K. I also have a flexible job that allows me to take time off to take my son to various dr appts. But I did ask--what happens to people in my situation who cannot afford the necessary therapy's and early interventions and are not found eligible by the county?

The response--those children go to K and spend the first semester in the principals office and being sent home. Then, once they've demonstrated that they can no longer access the curriculum, the county will step in. Of course, once in school, it takes a while to get a 504 or an IEP in place and finding the right school for your child's needs that has space available is a challenge.

So yes, I think there is a correlation between SES and disruptiveness. If you don't have the money to get dx and therapy's, then you send your disruptive child off to school.

PP, I'm pretty sure that you have a different issue. I think the OP is talking about the behavior, in general, of those kids living in poverty--not those who have special needs as your child does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems that posters on DCUM freely assume when evaluating school quality that predominantly low SES/high FARMS rate/majority AA = bad test scores/disruptive in the classroom. What basis in science does this have? If there is strong correlation, is it universal or specific to certain cities, regions or situations? I'm just trying to get a hold on the facts and separating them from baseless fearmongering and prejudice.

AAs have worse test scores across all SES levels when compared to whites and Asians. Poor AAs have the lowest test scores of any demographic out there, so a school of poor AA students will almost always have significantly below average test scores.

[Anonymous]

Yes, there is correlation. But my kids go to a school with a high FARMs rate and some of the white snowflakes of professional parents are equally, if not more disruptive.

[Anonymous]

The problem is the generalization and the stigma that comes with have a certain race/ethnicity or lower SES. Some teachers, including my DD's teacher (she told me and one of the reasons I dislike her) automatically believe that children from low SES or minorities will have behavioral issues or test poorly, showing unfair bias toward those children.

[Anonymous]

OK - at the risk of pissing you off by responding in a way that makes you look stupid, here I go.

Kids living in poverty are often raised by parents who don't have the know how or time in fighting for their children. So if there's a disability, the parent will not know how to advocate for his/her child. And in many MANY cases, the kids in poverty are attending schools with high FARMs. So if 20 children are in a class and the class is "needy," for lack of a better word, in most cases, any learning issues will go undetected.

So there IS a correlation btw. poverty and learning issues - and eventually disruptive behavior.

b/c if a child is not receiving accommodations and therapy, s/he will act out of frustration

Do you need a PhD to get it?

Anonymous wrote:

My 3 yr old son is extremely disruptive. So disruptive that we've recently been thrown out of preschool. In response, I'm going through Child Find, he's been evaluated by a dev pediatrician, and we are having an OT and SLP evaluation done. A friend of mine is an SLP for the county. I asked her to evaluate my son's language prior to the Child Find evaluation. She did and said that yes, there is a problem, but it's not enough to qualify for county intervention. Meanwhile, his language issue is impacting his behavior at school enough to get him kicked out.

I have health insurance that covers a lot of this and can afford to pay out of pocket for the therapy's that my son will need in order to get him ready for K. I also have a flexible job that allows me to take time off to take my son to various dr appts. But I did ask--what happens to people in my situation who cannot afford the necessary therapy's and early interventions and are not found eligible by the county?

The response--those children go to K and spend the first semester in the principals office and being sent home. Then, once they've demonstrated that they can no longer access the curriculum, the county will step in. Of course, once in school, it takes a while to get a 504 or an IEP in place and finding the right school for your child's needs that has space available is a challenge.

So yes, I think there is a correlation between SES and disruptiveness. If you don't have the money to get dx and therapy's, then you send your disruptive child off to school.

PP, I'm pretty sure that you have a different issue. I think the OP is talking about the behavior, in general, of those kids living in poverty--not those who have special needs as your child does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the generalization and the stigma that comes with have a certain race/ethnicity or lower SES. Some teachers, including my DD's teacher (she told me and one of the reasons I dislike her) automatically believe that children from low SES or minorities will have behavioral issues or test poorly, showing unfair bias toward those children.

Data show this.

So while your teacher may have her reasons for believing it (racist? maybe), it is true.

Kids from low SES homes (mainly minorities) are more often identified as special ed and are more often disruptive than white children. Sadly, this is rooted in institutionalized racism and is often exacerbated by instructional settings where expectations are lowered for minorities.

[Anonymous]

The AA Assistant Principal at my DC's HS said that African American males are over-identified for special education and classified as misclassified emotionally disturbed due to behavioral issues. It is a huge problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the generalization and the stigma that comes with have a certain race/ethnicity or lower SES. Some teachers, including my DD's teacher (she told me and one of the reasons I dislike her) automatically believe that children from low SES or minorities will have behavioral issues or test poorly, showing unfair bias toward those children.

Data show this.

So while your teacher may have her reasons for believing it (racist? maybe), it is true.

Kids from low SES homes (mainly minorities) are more often identified as special ed and are more often disruptive than white children. Sadly, this is rooted in institutionalized racism and is often exacerbated by instructional settings where expectations are lowered for minorities.

It's a shame that people generalize and can't view kids as individuals.

[Anonymous]

Hungry kids are more disruptive.

I am also grouchy and unfocused when hungry, and my kid is even worse. Fortunately, the money in my pocket means he never goes to school hungry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hungry kids are more disruptive.

I am also grouchy and unfocused when hungry, and my kid is even worse. Fortunately, the money in my pocket means he never goes to school hungry.

Can't really use that as an excuse when free meals are available. http://www.dc.gov/DCPS/Beyond+the+Classroom/Food+Services/Application+for+Free+and+Reduced+Meals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hungry kids are more disruptive.

I am also grouchy and unfocused when hungry, and my kid is even worse. Fortunately, the money in my pocket means he never goes to school hungry.

Can't really use that as an excuse when free meals are available. http://www.dc.gov/DCPS/Beyond+the+Classroom/Food+Services/Application+for+Free+and+Reduced+Meals

Who was using it as an "excuse"? PP was stating a fact, as I understand it.

Also, perhaps you can perceive the difference between getting three regular meals per day on weekends and during vacations as well as on school days, and getting breakfast and lunch at school on school days.