Transgendered woman in the womens locker room

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would not bother me at all. I hope she sues the shit out of the owners and shuts them down.

They are taking a beating over this on yelp.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/spa-world-centreville

the vast majority of people leaving comments have probably never been to spa world and have no intention of going there regardless of the trans issue. And for every comment there are probably 50 people thinking good for spa world, now i don't have to wory about seeing a penis when i go to the womens spa.

Exactly my thought.

Now we can go there sure that nobody will try to flirt with you while you're trying to relax or have to explain awkward behavior to our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no, I would not have a problem with my daughter being naked with a trans person of either gender, or being naked myself with a person of either gender. The point of discomfort would be the appropriate behaviour of the person in question, not which gender or genetalia they might happen to possess.

well, a lot of people aren't that laissez-faire
I'm one of those who gets ticked off if a boychild past age 7 is in my locker room at the pool.
So what's the solution? create a separate changing room for each transgendered group, etc?

Most swimming pools have a policy against unaccompanied teens and children...is that age discrimination? Most movies don't allow preteens in R-rated movies without an adult, do anti-discrimination activists need to start demonstrations?
Spa World absolutely should not apologize, or kow-tow to this person

Generally, there are only legal protections against discrimination for categories of people that are permanent (e.g. someone with a disability is protected, someone with a broken leg isn't), and that have historically been disadvantaged due to discrimination. Children don't fit into either of these categories. Transgender people fit into both. Therefore, excluding children from a movie is not comparable to excluding a transgender person from Spa World.

As far as whether they should have apologized, I think that the original action was borderline in my opinion. While I wouldn't have a problem with having a transgender woman in Spa World with me, I can understand how the decision to allow someone transgender in a facility where people are naked and divided by gender could lead to a loss of business. I think that Suising's original, measured, response (e.g. not suing, or running to the media, but making a quiet complaint to the BBB) was appropriate.

On the other hand, their later response, that is, the hateful written response they gave, is absolutely unexcusable. When they escalated it in that manner, I think that it was entirely appropriate for Suising to escalate her response.

In the end, I'm glad that Spa World responded appropriately by changing their policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am the parent of a trans kid (teenager now) and I am incredibly supportive of all trans rights -- and let me tell you, if my kid (born female but identified as male since the Elmo years) was using the men's locker room, I would say - "hey babe, cover up those private parts with a towel." And I am pretty sure my teen would roll his eyes and reply, "Like, duh, mom." Same thing if my kid was born male, I'm absolutely sure that Mr. Happy would not see any airtime in a female locker room. My kid would be mortified if it happened.

In my view, as informed by my actual experiences with the trans community, this is something the fear-mongers have just jinned up. The trans folk I know are incredibly educated, sensitive, thoughtful people (something about this condition engenders a lot of introspection and contemplation, wow, imagine that!). In my experience, most trans people have NO interest in advertising or highlighting their original physical gender, they are all about changing their appearance to their true internal gender. The idea of a trans woman flashing her pre-op male genitals in a locker room runs counter to absolutely everything I know about transgendered folks. I mean, it is laughable, actually.

Re this story - I am willing to bet that she didn't display her private parts. Think about it. The spa owners would have claimed that fact, it would have made their story oh-so-much more compelling. And the press would have highlighted that fact, it would have made their story oh-so-much more interesting.

Spa World does not allow bathing suits in the area with massages FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would not bother me at all. I hope she sues the shit out of the owners and shuts them down.

They are taking a beating over this on yelp.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/spa-world-centreville

the vast majority of people leaving comments have probably never been to spa world and have no intention of going there regardless of the trans issue. And for every comment there are probably 50 people thinking good for spa world, now i don't have to wory about seeing a penis when i go to the womens spa.

Exactly my thought.

Now we can go there sure that nobody will try to flirt with you while you're trying to relax or have to explain awkward behavior to our children.

Since most of those reviews are not about the business or people that have been there I would guess that yelp will take them down eventually. I understand the uproar, but yelp is not the appriopriate venue for that discussion.

[Anonymous]

No, I would not feel comfortable with a person, transgender or not, with male genitalia walking naked/swimming naked around me or my daughter. But then again, I am not the type of person to go to a spa like that because, honestly, I wouldn't feel comfortable with woman walking naked/swimming naked around me neither. But a man would be even worse.

I was at the YMCA doing swimming classes last year and two or three Indian or Pakistani women (one in her 30's and one or two in their 50's/60's) got inside the pool with clothes/saris (sp?) on. Everyone looked but no one said a thing, including the lifeguard. A few minutes later,when they were done, they went to the sauna room - and there they took their clothes off and began drying themselves with towels and just walking/talking naked - with a completely non-chalant attitude.

I could not stop staring... was so surreal. And I kept looking at the men who were in the swimming class as well...and the other women. It was like this huge white elephant in the room. So funny!

I guess they didn't realize we could all see them.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My child is exposed to many things he's too young to fully understand. Like most kids, he makes sense of it and carries on. I can't imagine witholding everything that he didn't understand.

As far as what to say, "This room is for girls and women. Your daddy is a man, and your brother, and so they go in the men's locker room. She is a woman like me, and so she belongs here." "But she has a penis" "You're right, she does. Most girls and women have vulva's, but some have penises. She's still a woman and this is where she belongs. Now, let's go get in the pool!"[/

This is by far the stupidest thing I have ever read here on DCUM. You are going to tell a child that sometimes girls have penises? No, they don't.

The PP is correct explaining the ins and out of a transgender person exceeds the limits of a 4 yr olds understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Riya Suising

Definitely looks like a man, or a very ugly fugly woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riya Suising

Definitely looks like a man, or a very ugly fugly woman.

Stop it! She is a human being who did not do anything to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Transgendered is not really a choice. Trans people still get beaten on a regular basis because they're different. Why would someone choose that?

Also, to the PP with a 4 year old: kids don't have the same genitalia hang ups as adults. They honestly don't care.

My four year old wouldn't care but my 9 year old would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't bother me at all. But then, Americans are much more prudish about these things.

Are the staff and customers mostly Korean?

Are you suggesting they were discriminating because she's Chinese? That would be funny, racist, but still ironically funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't mind but I"m generally a little shy and don't like walking around a bunch of naked strangers regardless of gender.

+1. Communal dressing has always been weird to me. Even in middle school I would change in the toilet stall for swimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't bother me at all. But then, Americans are much more prudish about these things.

Are the staff and customers mostly Korean?

Are you suggesting they were discriminating because she's Chinese? That would be funny, racist, but still ironically funny.

No, hadn't thought about that. PP said Americans are prudish. So pointed out that maybe they are Korean immigrants who were raised in a different cultural environment (not saying Koreans born and raised in the US are not Americans).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riya Suising

Definitely looks like a man, or a very ugly fugly woman.

Stop it! She is a human being who did not do anything to you.

NP here and as an athlete I find extremely unfair that he gets to run against women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riya Suising

Definitely looks like a man, or a very ugly fugly woman.

Stop it! She is a human being who did not do anything to you.

NP here and as an athlete I find extremely unfair that he gets to run against women.

There's a professional runner who may have characteristics of both sexes but identifies as a woman. She competes in competitions with women. I think at first they thought she was unfairly trying to use her maleness to win. But now I think they allow her to compete against women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riya Suising

Definitely looks like a man, or a very ugly fugly woman.

Stop it! She is a human being who did not do anything to you.

NP here and as an athlete I find extremely unfair that he gets to run against women.

There's a professional runner who may have characteristics of both sexes but identifies as a woman. She competes in competitions with women. I think at first they thought she was unfairly trying to use her maleness to win. But now I think they allow her to compete against women.

Yup, I remember a case from decades ago where the "woman" characterized herself as a woman but she had functioning men parts and dated woman but still fought for her right to compete as a woman and clearly had an advantage since she had overwhelming male characteristics. Her female parts were atrophied.