Have your children ever had an extremely disruptive child in elementary class?

[Anonymous]

23:16 I feel for you, but did you get the school to pay for a full time aide or did you contribute as well? You say you fought for the aide which implies that you had to beg for money to be directed toward your child and away from others. If the full time aide isn't any better than you would be and your child isn't getting much out of mainstreaming, why take the money for the aide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:59. If so, why do these children need to be mainstreamed? "Normal" children get expelled for that type of thing.

I didn't say they should be in the general ed class with those behaviors. I said calling the police would be absurd. If the school and parents place a child with those behaviors in a general class, they also need a 1:1 aide to remove the child from the class to a calm-down type room or resource room when the child is disruptive. IMO.

[Anonymous]

More often than not, things like masturbating and sexual aggression are the result of children being subjected to sexual abuse at home, and the "special need" may well be at least partly the result of emotional and/or physical abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had a borderline autistic child in our classroom. He kicked, bit, ran, wasn't fully potty trained... Everyone was "working on it", his parents wanted him mainstreamed, but it really does distract from the class as a whole. He finally got an "official" diagnosis, and leaves the classroom for much of the day for more one-on-one instruction. This has really benefitted the class. He's learning a lot from the on-on-one instruction and he rarely has outbursts anymore.

I am going to have a hypersensitive nitpicking editorial moment here and say putting "borderline autistic" at the front of the sentence gives much less info than" hitting, biting and running". Sure some kids with autism do this, but many kids with conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder do too.

My child has full blown high functioning autism and has never hit another child-very gentle and kind. He could bore you to tears talking about cars, the presidents and/or ancient Egypt, but he is fully mainstreamed and the kids misbehaving are the typically developing ones as far as I know.

I am with you that physical aggression is unacceptable and I have empathy for the family of that child, but understand the distraction and safety element. I too would be concerned, especially since my child with HFA is fearful and this could exacerbate the anxiety.

Just needed to chime in because I felt putting that first just contributes to stereotypes that autistic means aggressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It can take quite a while before an aide is brought in. Lots of documentation and trying other things before an aide can be ordered by an IEP.

This depresses me because it wasn't that long ago a child with the challenges OP describes would have qualified for an aide. Furthermore, that child would have a MUCH greater chance of success in the mainstream environment and this child would be much less likely to affect the other children's learning with the proper level of support. I truly believe the child OP described might handle a mainstream environment quite well with 1-1 support there and they could gradually decrease the amount of the time the aide is there based on how things go. Instead the child has to "fail" in the mainstream environment socially/emotionally/behaviorally to get the ideal support-be in an aide or more time in a self-contained classroom.

It must be just as cost effective to start with a full time aide in the mainstream environment and gradually decrease support than let a kid flouder in mainstream and possibly end up in self-contained for more and more time which I assume costs the county a lot of money too. Plus, it sends a better message to other kids about SN. Better to see a classmate functioning well with some help than see a classmate dysregulated and unhappy on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the opposite viewpoint-- I think DC has become a more intuitive and compassionate teen because of all the children with whom he interacted in elementary school with special needs. He had some himself (not violence but learning needs) and he became someone who could calm down the child with HFA or help someone else with math. Yes there are drawbacks, especially if the child takes tons of the teacher's time (and this is where an aide or volunteer or specialist could really help), but the benefits of mainstreaming that child are many.

And kids change and develop. There's a girl at my child's previous school who used to shriek each day for hours. It was very disruptive and difficult for the staff. Why? She was one of about 8 siblings from a family in extreme poverty-- god only knows what her homelife was like. But they worked with her for years. Recently I got a chance to see her. She is a pretty poised child who reads beautifully in two languages. Wow, that's what education is all about.

Not so sure this applies to a private school setting though -- the above example is from public school. If I was paying a bunch of money for education for my kid I might not want to put up with disruptions in the class. That said, at my teen's private school he is most upset by the entitled children who complain and ruin the fun for everyone else because things are not perfect enough for them.

Great post! I like you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what I wonder... all of these kids who are out of control, who have diagnoses, etc (mine included)... they are everywhere in such numbers.

Why? And where were these kids when we were little? Or is this environmental? Just pondering.

There are so many possible contributors such as...

-Environmental toxins-pesticides, BPA, arsenic, lead, mercury, car emissions

-Something in the environment sets off a genetic vulnerability

-Families are highly stressed-cost of living has gone up, many people are out of work, insurance pays for less and less. When I'm completely stressed I know it's harder for me to give my all to my kids. Many families face far more stressors than I do and even a saint could become depressed and/or angry when enough major stressors set in. Depression can manifest in many ways including aggression in kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had a similar problem and went to talk to the school VP - the VP said we were the 4th or 5th family to complain, so I guess we waited a while. The VP told us that the school isn't allowed to segregate these kids. And moving disruptive kids from one classroom to another doesn't solve the problem from the school's perspective. It just moves the problem around, to a different teacher and classroom, but doesn't get to whatever psychological or disciplinary root.

The only time they would contemplate moving a kid from one classroom to another would be for something he called a "sterilizing bounce" (gotta love it). This is in cases where the disruptive kid is feeding off kids in one classroom, so that moving the kid might take him or her away from peers who are egging him/her on.

And was this in a private or public school, -which county?- or would you think this is pretty much it, everywhere nowadays, the class and teachers just have to deal with it, for *years*?

I'm curious which county too. As far as I know if a child affects the other children's ability to learn in a safe environment and many things have been tried, but have not worked, kids are placed in a more appropriate environment. In fact a friend of mine works with children who have behavior challenges and she has a very small class size (in a public school)>

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:58 here, this was at a public school and the child did not have an IEP, to my knowledge. The parent refused to believe the child had any issues, or needed help. So sad.

In some ways I agree with the parent
I would also not want my kid to be diagnosed by school staff. The kid will get labeled and it will follow him all the way to college applications

The label helps get the child services which give him/her a greater chance of being successful in the school setting. Many kids lose the educational label and services by highschool. Believe me the county doesn't want to pay for your child to get services if they are no longer needed. Quite a few people we know had to fight to keep the IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I wonder... all of these kids who are out of control, who have diagnoses, etc (mine included)... they are everywhere in such numbers.

Why? And where were these kids when we were little? Or is this environmental? Just pondering.

There are so many possible contributors such as...

-Environmental toxins-pesticides, BPA, arsenic, lead, mercury, car emissions

-Something in the environment sets off a genetic vulnerability

-Families are highly stressed-cost of living has gone up, many people are out of work, insurance pays for less and less. When I'm completely stressed I know it's harder for me to give my all to my kids. Many families face far more stressors than I do and even a saint could become depressed and/or angry when enough major stressors set in. Depression can manifest in many ways including aggression in kids.

Could you point me to articles/studies about a possible link between car emissions and behavioral DX in children? This would certainly influence my choice of vehicle, if the exhaust negatively impacted children (not just my own children).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here - I'm wondering how everyone feels about a mainstreamed kid with special needs who has no significant behavioral issues but requires a bit more attention from the teacher to learn the material? Is the feeling the same - that they shouldn't be in the mainstream classroom?

That describes my child, but according to teachers over the years he has not taken up more of their time than the typically developing boys. He gets fine motor support. He is anxious too, but it's actually easier for the teacher that he has an IEP because she can ask his IEP manager to do things to help. With typical kids she has to deal with it herself. There are attention issues, but usually that describes ober half the boys so while it's a concern he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:mainstreaming should be illegal. It is not fair to the 24 kids in class to have a child that sucks up so much effort from the teacher. Jeez, they get their own assistant. Give them a class, and let the learning begin. For all.

I agree! My special needs daughter has no behavioral problems, and gets her good conduct points every week. But there are certain kids in her class (without IEPs) who are disruptive and constantly talk out of turn, or cut up and take up the teacher's time and act like babies. They should be placed in a special program, so her learning can begin! I suggest their parents consider private school for them, or home-schooling. Mainstreaming is just not for them.

I'm with you-my child with HFA is academically advanced in many areas and tends to be one of the better behaved kids in the class. He gets support for non-academic, non-behavioral issues. If your mainstream "genius" cannot keep up with mainstream child with HFA than please find another school. If the school doesn't provide every ounce of enrichment MY boy needs for that amazing autism brain of his I may have to kid Harvard goodbye. Take your wiggly, coordinated, athletically gifted, smart-mouthed, entitled, average typical child to a school where he can wiggle with other typical kids. I don't want my HFA child sinking down to the level of yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I wonder... all of these kids who are out of control, who have diagnoses, etc (mine included)... they are everywhere in such numbers.

Why? And where were these kids when we were little? Or is this environmental? Just pondering.

There are so many possible contributors such as...

-Environmental toxins-pesticides, BPA, arsenic, lead, mercury, car emissions

-Something in the environment sets off a genetic vulnerability

-Families are highly stressed-cost of living has gone up, many people are out of work, insurance pays for less and less. When I'm completely stressed I know it's harder for me to give my all to my kids. Many families face far more stressors than I do and even a saint could become depressed and/or angry when enough major stressors set in. Depression can manifest in many ways including aggression in kids.

Could you point me to articles/studies about a possible link between car emissions and behavioral DX in children? This would certainly influence my choice of vehicle, if the exhaust negatively impacted children (not just my own children).

It's murky. I recall a study suggesting the closer you live to a highway the more likely you are to ave a child with autism. There has been speculation about car emissions and other neuro disorders as well, but not sure how much research. There is definitely some interesting research about pesticides, heavy metals, etc and BPA is a hormone disrupter right? That can't be good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I wonder... all of these kids who are out of control, who have diagnoses, etc (mine included)... they are everywhere in such numbers.

Why? And where were these kids when we were little? Or is this environmental? Just pondering.

There are so many possible contributors such as...

-Environmental toxins-pesticides, BPA, arsenic, lead, mercury, car emissions

-Something in the environment sets off a genetic vulnerability

-Families are highly stressed-cost of living has gone up, many people are out of work, insurance pays for less and less. When I'm completely stressed I know it's harder for me to give my all to my kids. Many families face far more stressors than I do and even a saint could become depressed and/or angry when enough major stressors set in. Depression can manifest in many ways including aggression in kids.

Could you point me to articles/studies about a possible link between car emissions and behavioral DX in children? This would certainly influence my choice of vehicle, if the exhaust negatively impacted children (not just my own children).

It's murky. I recall a study suggesting the closer you live to a highway the more likely you are to ave a child with autism. There has been speculation about car emissions and other neuro disorders as well, but not sure how much research. There is definitely some interesting research about pesticides, heavy metals, etc and BPA is a hormone disrupter right? That can't be good.

Posting yet again to say it is refreshing to see that you care about this and it will influence you car choice. I drive a car in a sea of minivans. I'm not anti-mini-van, but I only have 2 kids so a car suits us fine, though it makes it nearly impossible to transport other kids.

[Anonymous]

Some of it is also compounded by the fact that some people use diagnoses and labels as a magic wand to wave over a lack of proper parenting and guidance.