What do cheaters tell themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an adult and do adult things that are outside the view of my children all the time. What do I tell myself? That I'm finally enjoying a sex life I was missing for years with someone else who is in the same situation. I'm not going to divorce over sex although I won't rule it out in the long run. If there was any chance in hell to save this part of my marriage, I wouldn't be having an affair but I have exhausted all avenues. She has made the choice for herself that she is done with sex and it doesn't matter to her how that effects me or our marriage. Since starting the affair, I've lost the deep seated anger and bitterness I've had towards her and I'm much more at peace around her and the family. I'd much prefer having a sex life with her than any AP I could find but it's not to be. We all make hard choices in life. This is not ideal but it works for now.

I wonder what in your brokenness gives you self control with your emotions now that you are literally destroying your wife’s life. Just be a man and ask for an open marriage, stop behaving like a middle schooler. You put so much thought and planning into avoiding the real issues, try putting a little effort into accountability.

+100. Be an adult and tell your wife that you are not happy going without sex and that you want to re-negotiate the sexual aspect of the marriage. How does she see you moving forward? Is there a way to stay together while you sleep with other people? Is she allowed to sleep with other people? What kind of relationships can you each feel comfortable with - one night stands? medium or long term affair partners? people inside or outside your current circle? is there some kind of post-nuptial written agreement that can be negotiated that would give each person the security they need in terms of potential divorce terms?

The problem with the cheaters is that they really don't want to negotiate. They want to dictate terms, and they do so by keeping their behavior secret and doing what they please, hoping that if they can keep their betrayed spouse from knowing, then the betrayed spouse won't ask for their own sexual needs and other needs to be met. It's always amazing to me how cheaters with wives who won't sleep with them think that their wife doesn't like sex any more. No, she doesn't like sex with YOU any more, and part of the reason you cheat is so that you can control her sexuality, and she doesn't sleep with other people.

Nope, I'm not asking permission for an open marriage which she would never agree to. She didn't ask permission to end our sex life. This is what happens when you go that route and don't care. I care much more about our marriage than she does. Other than our sex life, we get along fine and even better now. I don't need permission to be happy. It's only sex and she places no importance on sex so I've removed that burden from her.

Sounds reasonable to me, TBH. And if there’s truly no sex then you’re not putting her health at risk.

My question is what do you do when you need a basic, low level of emotional intimacy in order to want to have sex with your spouse but they refuse to do any real work towards that? If you are the one recommending therapy (both couples and solo), recommending books, trying to initiate conversations for YEARS and they just keep their head down and want to act like you haven’t been communicating how unhappy you are for years? What then? Just because they’ll f*** you still, you just have to deal? My body literally feels unsafe around my spouse. I cannot make myself do it. I have a high drive and it’s killing me but I need emotional and physical intimacy to find some semblance of happiness.

If that sounds reasonable to you then the intimacy part probably has more to do with you than you are willing to see.

[Anonymous]

Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

It’s never just sex if you are married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an adult and do adult things that are outside the view of my children all the time. What do I tell myself? That I'm finally enjoying a sex life I was missing for years with someone else who is in the same situation. I'm not going to divorce over sex although I won't rule it out in the long run. If there was any chance in hell to save this part of my marriage, I wouldn't be having an affair but I have exhausted all avenues. She has made the choice for herself that she is done with sex and it doesn't matter to her how that effects me or our marriage. Since starting the affair, I've lost the deep seated anger and bitterness I've had towards her and I'm much more at peace around her and the family. I'd much prefer having a sex life with her than any AP I could find but it's not to be. We all make hard choices in life. This is not ideal but it works for now.

I wonder what in your brokenness gives you self control with your emotions now that you are literally destroying your wife’s life. Just be a man and ask for an open marriage, stop behaving like a middle schooler. You put so much thought and planning into avoiding the real issues, try putting a little effort into accountability.

+100. Be an adult and tell your wife that you are not happy going without sex and that you want to re-negotiate the sexual aspect of the marriage. How does she see you moving forward? Is there a way to stay together while you sleep with other people? Is she allowed to sleep with other people? What kind of relationships can you each feel comfortable with - one night stands? medium or long term affair partners? people inside or outside your current circle? is there some kind of post-nuptial written agreement that can be negotiated that would give each person the security they need in terms of potential divorce terms?

The problem with the cheaters is that they really don't want to negotiate. They want to dictate terms, and they do so by keeping their behavior secret and doing what they please, hoping that if they can keep their betrayed spouse from knowing, then the betrayed spouse won't ask for their own sexual needs and other needs to be met. It's always amazing to me how cheaters with wives who won't sleep with them think that their wife doesn't like sex any more. No, she doesn't like sex with YOU any more, and part of the reason you cheat is so that you can control her sexuality, and she doesn't sleep with other people.

Nope, I'm not asking permission for an open marriage which she would never agree to. She didn't ask permission to end our sex life. This is what happens when you go that route and don't care. I care much more about our marriage than she does. Other than our sex life, we get along fine and even better now. I don't need permission to be happy. It's only sex and she places no importance on sex so I've removed that burden from her.

Do you realize that in the bolded statement you are taking the "marital rape" view of marriage vows -- that marriage is a permanent agreement to make your body available to your spouse on demand. Marital rape was first outlawed in 1976 in Nebraska and by 1993 it was against the law in all 50 states. And, you seemingly feel entitled to punish and manipulate her because she doesn't comply with this marital rape view of her sexual obligation to you.

And, your statement about not asking for an open marriage makes exactly my point - that cheating spouses don't ask to open the marriage because it will trigger a consequence that the cheater doesn't like - the wife doesn't agree and cares less about the marriage overall, so you are trying to avoid her making a decision about the marriage that you might not like.

Like most cheaters, you are cheating to maintain a self-view that you don't want disturbed, even at home -- you don't want to be open with your wife about seeking sex out side the marriage because then you will loose the fake world you have created -- that you are good in bed and your wife doesn't care about sex and that you have a good marriage, and get along fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many affairs and didn’t tell myself anything. They just happened and most were coworkers.

You need an exorcist if it just happens without your active engagement, but otherwise you lack the commitment, boundaries and character to be worthy of a monogamous relationship. You have to tell yourself that you can’t control yourself or you don’t care about your job or partner. Maybe everyone else is doing it? Someone as selfish as you know you are entitled to it or something…

I couldn’t stop it, it was a high. Yes, terrible. Yes, selfish and self centered. Eventually, I came to my senses, walked away from my career and got my head on straight. Haven’t thought about stepping outside the marriage since.

Happy to hear that, did you tell your spouse?

No, did you?

😩

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

It’s never just sex if you are married.

I am married and to me, it’s just sex with ONS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^True. Frigid wives aren't open about theirs, either.

That doesn't make sense. Especially in this day and age where people generally have sex before marriage, a man is going to know whether a woman is "frigid" before marriage. Is she into sex? Does she like doing it frequently? He will know. It's not the 1800s where you might not find out your partner's approach towards sex unit the wedding night. If for whatever reason you decided not to vet your spouse's sexual preferences before marriages and they refused to have sex with you after, then you could get the marriage annulled.

Now, sometimes attitudes towards sex change. Many women lose interest in sex as they age, hit menopause, or due to the stress of kids. If it changes, the people in the marriage have to reassess. And they can and should do so openly. If her new attitude towards sex is absolutely unacceptable to him, they can discuss an open marriage or divorce. There's no secrets there -- if sex dries up, they both know it, they can address it openly between them.

Whereas a cheater has taken a vow of monogamy, has not expressed to their partner that their opinion on that vow has changed, and keeps their change a secret. It's a totally different issue. A spouse who is cheated on is not being given an option to decide if the new terms of their marriage are acceptable. They aren't being given the option to choose an open relationship or divorce.

Bullshit. Do you really think a spouse hasn't discussed this topic at great length, sometimes for years before making the leap to cheating? Not given the option to decide? WTF are you talking about? My wife always had the option to decide and she decided our sex life was over, take it or leave it. She could decide tomorrow to change her mind and I'd stop seeing other women in a minute, but that's not happening bar some miracle. Or maybe she will get struck by lightening and it will re-wire her brain.

Any spouse, man or woman who makes the decision to stop having sex knows damn well it's a problem. They are adults and should never be surprised at the consequences of that unilateral decision. If they just "aren't feeling it" then they still know that's a problem that will only get worse. They can ignore the problem or discuss it like an adult and look for solutions. If not, they have already decided and it's their spouse who, " has not being given an option to decide if the new terms of their marriage are acceptable." I decided the new terms were not acceptable and took action.

You might have whined and vocalized unhappiness, but you never communicated the solution. Keep justifying you temper tantrum until she knows you and doesn’t hate you, but is disgusted at who you are instead of what you don’t do for her. You suck.

Were you there? You have no idea what I've communicated. When your spouse stops bothering you about serious, unresolved marital issues, you're a fool to think they just let it go. I don't bother her about it at all anymore and life with her is much more peaceful for the both of us. I've exhausted myself trying to communicate with someone who refuses to recognize it as a problem.

My situation was even worse. My exH told me I should be happy with starfish sez three or four times a month and that I had it good. Gaslighting plus an unsatisfactory sex life = divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

It’s never just sex if you are married.

I am married and to me, it’s just sex with ONS.

And lying, manipulation, minimization, justifications and comparisons. It’s never just sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

It’s never just sex if you are married.

I am married and to me, it’s just sex with ONS.

And lying, manipulation, minimization, justifications and comparisons. It’s never just sex.

So says you…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

It’s never just sex if you are married.

I am married and to me, it’s just sex with ONS.

And lying, manipulation, minimization, justifications and comparisons. It’s never just sex.

So says you…

It isn’t cheating if it doesn’t involve lying, manipulation, minimization, justifications and comparisons. Otherwise it is ethical non-monogamy and ONS are agreed upon between the spouses. Hard to believe you are old enough to type, but immature enough to believe the crap you tell yourself when justifying selfish and unacceptable behaviors.

I guess you liked middle school so much you decided to stay there mentally and emotionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t have kids and it’s just sex.

It’s never just sex if you are married.

I am married and to me, it’s just sex with ONS.

And lying, manipulation, minimization, justifications and comparisons. It’s never just sex.

So says you…

It isn’t cheating if it doesn’t involve lying, manipulation, minimization, justifications and comparisons. Otherwise it is ethical non-monogamy and ONS are agreed upon between the spouses. Hard to believe you are old enough to type, but immature enough to believe the crap you tell yourself when justifying selfish and unacceptable behaviors.

I guess you liked middle school so much you decided to stay there mentally and emotionally.

I never cared much for school. I did however graduate from college and went into the family business. As a matter of fact, for not caring too much about school, I’m pretty damn well off and happy. 😎

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an adult and do adult things that are outside the view of my children all the time. What do I tell myself? That I'm finally enjoying a sex life I was missing for years with someone else who is in the same situation. I'm not going to divorce over sex although I won't rule it out in the long run. If there was any chance in hell to save this part of my marriage, I wouldn't be having an affair but I have exhausted all avenues. She has made the choice for herself that she is done with sex and it doesn't matter to her how that effects me or our marriage. Since starting the affair, I've lost the deep seated anger and bitterness I've had towards her and I'm much more at peace around her and the family. I'd much prefer having a sex life with her than any AP I could find but it's not to be. We all make hard choices in life. This is not ideal but it works for now.

Genuine question: do you think your wife knows what you’re up to and is choosing - at least for now - to look the other way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an adult and do adult things that are outside the view of my children all the time. What do I tell myself? That I'm finally enjoying a sex life I was missing for years with someone else who is in the same situation. I'm not going to divorce over sex although I won't rule it out in the long run. If there was any chance in hell to save this part of my marriage, I wouldn't be having an affair but I have exhausted all avenues. She has made the choice for herself that she is done with sex and it doesn't matter to her how that effects me or our marriage. Since starting the affair, I've lost the deep seated anger and bitterness I've had towards her and I'm much more at peace around her and the family. I'd much prefer having a sex life with her than any AP I could find but it's not to be. We all make hard choices in life. This is not ideal but it works for now.

Genuine question: do you think your wife knows what you’re up to and is choosing - at least for now - to look the other way?

Different poster but I do think that my exH knew what was going on, but he's totally emotionally avoidant and would have put up with it indefinitely. He had it too good while we were married, and his sex drive and interest in romance generally is so low, that he wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Cowardly and weak, but there you have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an adult and do adult things that are outside the view of my children all the time. What do I tell myself? That I'm finally enjoying a sex life I was missing for years with someone else who is in the same situation. I'm not going to divorce over sex although I won't rule it out in the long run. If there was any chance in hell to save this part of my marriage, I wouldn't be having an affair but I have exhausted all avenues. She has made the choice for herself that she is done with sex and it doesn't matter to her how that effects me or our marriage. Since starting the affair, I've lost the deep seated anger and bitterness I've had towards her and I'm much more at peace around her and the family. I'd much prefer having a sex life with her than any AP I could find but it's not to be. We all make hard choices in life. This is not ideal but it works for now.

I wonder what in your brokenness gives you self control with your emotions now that you are literally destroying your wife’s life. Just be a man and ask for an open marriage, stop behaving like a middle schooler. You put so much thought and planning into avoiding the real issues, try putting a little effort into accountability.

+100. Be an adult and tell your wife that you are not happy going without sex and that you want to re-negotiate the sexual aspect of the marriage. How does she see you moving forward? Is there a way to stay together while you sleep with other people? Is she allowed to sleep with other people? What kind of relationships can you each feel comfortable with - one night stands? medium or long term affair partners? people inside or outside your current circle? is there some kind of post-nuptial written agreement that can be negotiated that would give each person the security they need in terms of potential divorce terms?

The problem with the cheaters is that they really don't want to negotiate. They want to dictate terms, and they do so by keeping their behavior secret and doing what they please, hoping that if they can keep their betrayed spouse from knowing, then the betrayed spouse won't ask for their own sexual needs and other needs to be met. It's always amazing to me how cheaters with wives who won't sleep with them think that their wife doesn't like sex any more. No, she doesn't like sex with YOU any more, and part of the reason you cheat is so that you can control her sexuality, and she doesn't sleep with other people.

Nope, I'm not asking permission for an open marriage which she would never agree to. She didn't ask permission to end our sex life. This is what happens when you go that route and don't care. I care much more about our marriage than she does. Other than our sex life, we get along fine and even better now. I don't need permission to be happy. It's only sex and she places no importance on sex so I've removed that burden from her.

Sounds reasonable to me, TBH. And if there’s truly no sex then you’re not putting her health at risk.

My question is what do you do when you need a basic, low level of emotional intimacy in order to want to have sex with your spouse but they refuse to do any real work towards that? If you are the one recommending therapy (both couples and solo), recommending books, trying to initiate conversations for YEARS and they just keep their head down and want to act like you haven’t been communicating how unhappy you are for years? What then? Just because they’ll f*** you still, you just have to deal? My body literally feels unsafe around my spouse. I cannot make myself do it. I have a high drive and it’s killing me but I need emotional and physical intimacy to find some semblance of happiness.

I’m the same, there was a large rupture in my marriage, the anger is gone but nothing has been restored, because nothing has been restored my body does not react to her touch, at all. When we try to be together it’s about as erotic as visit to the doctor and nothing happens. Im functionally perfect but I just cannot summon the feelings for sex. We once had a great sex life and it was such an important part of my life but it’s been gone for a few years now. I haven’t cheated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an adult and do adult things that are outside the view of my children all the time. What do I tell myself? That I'm finally enjoying a sex life I was missing for years with someone else who is in the same situation. I'm not going to divorce over sex although I won't rule it out in the long run. If there was any chance in hell to save this part of my marriage, I wouldn't be having an affair but I have exhausted all avenues. She has made the choice for herself that she is done with sex and it doesn't matter to her how that effects me or our marriage. Since starting the affair, I've lost the deep seated anger and bitterness I've had towards her and I'm much more at peace around her and the family. I'd much prefer having a sex life with her than any AP I could find but it's not to be. We all make hard choices in life. This is not ideal but it works for now.

Genuine question: do you think your wife knows what you’re up to and is choosing - at least for now - to look the other way?

Different poster but I do think that my exH knew what was going on, but he's totally emotionally avoidant and would have put up with it indefinitely. He had it too good while we were married, and his sex drive and interest in romance generally is so low, that he wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Cowardly and weak, but there you have it.

Yeah, that’s what I’m wondering. If one wants to be done with sex but stay married for other reasons (kids, finances or what have you)… is it ever in some way a relief to have it off the table and not be pestered for it anymore?

I’m a menopausal wife who has zero interest in sex anymore (though I love spouse as a person and we still have it once per week). Sometimes I feel like I’d rather he discreetly go elsewhere if nothing else would change. But something about formally opening the marriage feels a bridge too far.