Brown's 25% SAT scores fall after going test mandatory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pre-covid, our feederish private gave 1450 as the minimum bar for unhooked at Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell to be considered. Other ivies they said aim for 1500 minimum to be in serious consideration . This was for the high school classes of 2020 and 2021 as advised by parents meetings end of summer 2019. Vanderbilt they always said loves scores, aim for 1530. Duke was 1500. Northwestern and Chicago 1450. I kept notes. Post -TO the schools will slide back to previous ranges. Brown as pointed out had a 25%ile of 1440. Brown has never been on par with the top 4 ivies

What is the 4th top Ivy? Never heard of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get the crazy APS mom. My kid went through APS. There are these bulldozer, snowflake parents that kumon’d the hell out of their kids, challenged every grade, lobbied for GT designations that then finally hit the wall at college admissions. They can’t will their way in or plow their kid through anymore and test prep can only raise a kids score so far—some will never meet the threshold even with the doctor’s note they got someone to write for extra time on these tests. It’s no wonder they lash out at rationale people and facts.

Well then they rage and troll at the schools their kid couldn’t get into. Just wait….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Virginia:

41 Yale
29 Harvard
27 Brown
53 Princeton
31 Dartmouth
84 Cornell
29 Columbia
46 UPenn

270 Ivy freshman from Virginia

The ENTIRE state. Richmond and VA Beach areas are loaded with well-to-do smart kids and then out of those low numbers are the rural First Gens they are seeking and athletes.

Do you know how many HS seniors are in the state of VA outside of Arlington, Loudoun and Fairfax counties? So many that these numbers are a wake up call and should re-set any intelligent person’s expectations.

“Public high school graduates, by region, state …” shows Virginia had 92,160 graduates in one year. 

This doesn’t even include private or religious schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

“A lot” doesn’t really apply when you have 80%+ yields at schools like Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

Or Oxford/Cambridge or another international university. American universities are $$--not every int'l student admitted can attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Yale admissions podcast comes out and says what one poster above said: once a kid crosses a threshold--I think it was 710 or 720 per section--they are done with the SAT portion and don't think about it anymore. The quality of everything else in the app is what matters after that. I think a lot of people here are trying to make a 1590 matter a lot more than it actually does relative to low 1500s.

Can you tell me episode this was? I've listed to most/all of them and I do not remember them saying this specifically.

What I do remember them saying is (something to the effect): Once you've cleared an academic threshold, which is a combination of grades, rigor and testing, that they move on to other sections of your application, rarely ever returning to discuss the academics. As such, the difference between a 1530 and a 1570 means very little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

They don’t take all their students through ED and multiple rounds like Chicago and Hopkins and Vandy. Most are also turning down other Ivies. My kid got into 3, you can only attend 1. Legacy will also apply to others as back-up.

There is somebody on this board that has a very limited cognitive ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

They don’t take all their students through ED and multiple rounds like Chicago and Hopkins and Vandy. Most are also turning down other Ivies. My kid got into 3, you can only attend 1. Legacy will also apply to others as back-up.

There is somebody on this board that has a very limited cognitive ability.

Yep- the Harvard declines are Yale or Princeton legacy lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

Or Oxford/Cambridge or another international university. American universities are $$--not every int'l student admitted can attend.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Yale admissions podcast comes out and says what one poster above said: once a kid crosses a threshold--I think it was 710 or 720 per section--they are done with the SAT portion and don't think about it anymore. The quality of everything else in the app is what matters after that. I think a lot of people here are trying to make a 1590 matter a lot more than it actually does relative to low 1500s.

Can you tell me episode this was? I've listed to most/all of them and I do not remember them saying this specifically.

What I do remember them saying is (something to the effect): Once you've cleared an academic threshold, which is a combination of grades, rigor and testing, that they move on to other sections of your application, rarely ever returning to discuss the academics. As such, the difference between a 1530 and a 1570 means very little.

Yes, this is a point they hammer home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally know 3 UVA kids who turned down Ivies and similar for in-state tuition at UVA.

-Princeton and Duke
-Columbia
-Vanderbilt and Chicago

This is quite hard to believe. Vandy and Chicago are both ED or bust schools. Plus who would go through so much trouble to apply to these schools with their gazillion supplemental essays just to go to UVA when they could have been one and done by Dec?

It absolutely happened-I have no reason to make this up. Kids do get into Vandy and Chicago RD and many do not know where they want to go by the ED1 or ED deadlines. My own kid got into Vandy RD and also turned it down.

To be fair - test OPTIONAL Vandy and Chicago are nowhere near as hard admits and they have multiple ED rounds. We had 18 U chi admits at a pretty small HS.

Good luck thinking Vanderbilt is an easy admit.

And please do tell - what is your pretty small high school that is getting 18 admits to Chicago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally know 3 UVA kids who turned down Ivies and similar for in-state tuition at UVA.

-Princeton and Duke
-Columbia
-Vanderbilt and Chicago

This is quite hard to believe. Vandy and Chicago are both ED or bust schools. Plus who would go through so much trouble to apply to these schools with their gazillion supplemental essays just to go to UVA when they could have been one and done by Dec?

It absolutely happened-I have no reason to make this up. Kids do get into Vandy and Chicago RD and many do not know where they want to go by the ED1 or ED deadlines. My own kid got into Vandy RD and also turned it down.

To be fair - test OPTIONAL Vandy and Chicago are nowhere near as hard admits and they have multiple ED rounds. We had 18 U chi admits at a pretty small HS.

Good luck thinking Vanderbilt is an easy admit.

And please do tell - what is your pretty small high school that is getting 18 admits to Chicago?

St Albans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Virginia:

41 Yale
29 Harvard
27 Brown
53 Princeton
31 Dartmouth
84 Cornell
29 Columbia
46 UPenn

270 Ivy freshman from Virginia

Matriculations, not acceptances.