Brown's 25% SAT scores fall after going test mandatory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Virginia:

41 Yale
29 Harvard
27 Brown
53 Princeton
31 Dartmouth
84 Cornell
29 Columbia
46 UPenn

270 Ivy freshman from Virginia

Matriculations, not acceptances.

92,000 public high school seniors

There are about 700 private high schools in VA (not included in the 92k seniors)

Again the above list has many rural First Gen, legacy and athletes. So for your typical unhooked high star kid is a pipe dream

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Yale admissions podcast comes out and says what one poster above said: once a kid crosses a threshold--I think it was 710 or 720 per section--they are done with the SAT portion and don't think about it anymore. The quality of everything else in the app is what matters after that. I think a lot of people here are trying to make a 1590 matter a lot more than it actually does relative to low 1500s.

Can you tell me episode this was? I've listed to most/all of them and I do not remember them saying this specifically.

What I do remember them saying is (something to the effect): Once you've cleared an academic threshold, which is a combination of grades, rigor and testing, that they move on to other sections of your application, rarely ever returning to discuss the academics. As such, the difference between a 1530 and a 1570 means very little.

Yes, this is a point they hammer home.

Do you really believe them? Because the numbers don't bear that out. Remember, these are the same people that suckered everyone into believing that "you are more than your SAT" and here they are making you submit one. If the elite privates have figured out that SAT scores predict performance, rationally a higher SAT scorer is one that the institution will value more. As has been demonstrated there is a big difference between a 1510 and a 1570, both in terms of raw number of scorers who achieve such a result and how verifiably colleges treat a 1510 scorer versus a 1570 scorer. Harvard, Dartmouth and Caltech objectively favor the higher scorer applicant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Yale admissions podcast comes out and says what one poster above said: once a kid crosses a threshold--I think it was 710 or 720 per section--they are done with the SAT portion and don't think about it anymore. The quality of everything else in the app is what matters after that. I think a lot of people here are trying to make a 1590 matter a lot more than it actually does relative to low 1500s.

Can you tell me episode this was? I've listed to most/all of them and I do not remember them saying this specifically.

What I do remember them saying is (something to the effect): Once you've cleared an academic threshold, which is a combination of grades, rigor and testing, that they move on to other sections of your application, rarely ever returning to discuss the academics. As such, the difference between a 1530 and a 1570 means very little.

Yes, this is a point they hammer home.

Do you really believe them? Because the numbers don't bear that out. Remember, these are the same people that suckered everyone into believing that "you are more than your SAT" and here they are making you submit one. If the elite privates have figured out that SAT scores predict performance, rationally a higher SAT scorer is one that the institution will value more. As has been demonstrated there is a big difference between a 1510 and a 1570, both in terms of raw number of scorers who achieve such a result and how verifiably colleges treat a 1510 scorer versus a 1570 scorer. Harvard, Dartmouth and Caltech objectively favor the higher scorer applicant.

Has anyone looked to see if SAT and other parts of application are correlated? It's possible that 1570 scorers put in more SAT prep time than 1510 scorers on average. Meaning someone who scores 1570 is probably more focused on getting into a top college than someone who scores 1510. So 1570s might be more likely to have better grades and ECs on average too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Virginia:

41 Yale
29 Harvard
27 Brown
53 Princeton
31 Dartmouth
84 Cornell
29 Columbia
46 UPenn

270 Ivy freshman from Virginia

Where is this data from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Virginia:

41 Yale
29 Harvard
27 Brown
53 Princeton
31 Dartmouth
84 Cornell
29 Columbia
46 UPenn

270 Ivy freshman from Virginia

Where is this data from?

There is no such data.

[Anonymous]

OP, i just reviewed the numbers you posted - they aren't significantly that different - at most off 10 points.

[Anonymous]

If you aren’t an athlete or First Gen, or disadvantaged HS ain’t no way you getting in an Ivy with anything below 1500 minimum. The lower scores on a 100% test required school are those.

[Anonymous]

At one FCPS HS only (McLean) there were 13 publicized ivy league admits from about half the ‘25 class. This excludes other schools like MIT and Stanford (also admits there).

Of course there are lots of FCPS ivy admits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Virginia:

41 Yale
29 Harvard
27 Brown
53 Princeton
31 Dartmouth
84 Cornell
29 Columbia
46 UPenn

270 Ivy freshman from Virginia

Where is this data from?

There is no such data.

AI hallucination

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you aren’t an athlete or First Gen, or disadvantaged HS ain’t no way you getting in an Ivy with anything below 1500 minimum. The lower scores on a 100% test required school are those.

Absolute statements like these are so easy to disprove. All that is needed is one counterexample of a middle-class, non-legacy, non-athlete, non-first-generation kid with a sub-1480 getting into Cornell in the past 20 years. My daughter's friend is one, Asian even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Yale admissions podcast comes out and says what one poster above said: once a kid crosses a threshold--I think it was 710 or 720 per section--they are done with the SAT portion and don't think about it anymore. The quality of everything else in the app is what matters after that. I think a lot of people here are trying to make a 1590 matter a lot more than it actually does relative to low 1500s.

Can you tell me episode this was? I've listed to most/all of them and I do not remember them saying this specifically.

What I do remember them saying is (something to the effect): Once you've cleared an academic threshold, which is a combination of grades, rigor and testing, that they move on to other sections of your application, rarely ever returning to discuss the academics. As such, the difference between a 1530 and a 1570 means very little.

This peer reviewed article indicates that going from a 1540 to a 1590 increases your chances of admission by half again.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

There are probably at least a dozen schools that would consistently be chosen over the lower half of Ivy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

There are probably at least a dozen schools that would consistently be chosen over the lower half of Ivy

Other than Stanford, MIT, Caltech...finding the other 9 would be tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. PP considered only Yale, not all Ivies, so both of you are correct.

Look at Arlington County publics. Arlington Magazine. Out of 4 high schools - 2,000 seniors only 0-2 total students are admitted to one of the Ivies, Duke, etc any give year.

Here’s the link:
https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/ivy-league-elite-college-admissions/

I can’t believe this actually needs to be said, but…

Arlington Magazine doesn’t report ALL admissions (or matriculations).

It’s self-reported data.

This. I don’t understand others not understanding this.

Do you really think there are all of these Ivy acceptances that didn’t get reported?

Bless her heart

This. People turn down ivies for full rides elsewhere or better programs for their major (cmu for cs over an ivy).

Yes it’s why nobody from APS went to Princeton last year . Which has the best need based blind aid in the US

Need based…yes…but donut hole families don’t qualify for that…but they do at top 20s that offer free rides. You are making things up. I know families who have turned ivies down for free rides elsewhere. Smart

Merit based free ride at T20 is extremely rare.
Need based discount, sure. First Gen, maybe.

For others, maybe half tuition.

My kid is at a top 20. Several friends turned down ivies for free rides. They offer huge incentives beyond just tuition. These kids are wooed away from ivies. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But I am not arguing with someone who uses a belief to make a statement like it’s a fact.

My kids are both at non-Ivy T20 schools. Most of the non-Ivies do offer some merit scholarships, but they are incredibly difficult to get. But all of these students have incredible options. Any MC or UMC student getting into these schools usually has a gazillion options - including free rides for four years at the state flagship. And obviously a lot of talented students are going to choose that option or a merit scholarship at a non-Ivy rather than pay $400,000 for Brown.

At this price point - a $100,000 per year - nearly every family is looking at all the options. And if Brown doesn't offer merit for talented students or is not great with FA, well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of smart students that choose elsewhere.

Yield rate:
Brown 73%, 845 students chose elsewhere
Columbia 61%, 841 chose elsewhere
Cornell: 64%, 1,842 chose elsewhere
Dartmouth: 71%, 617 chose elsewhere
Harvard: 85%, 328 chose elsewhere
Princeton: 75%, 453 chose elsewhere
Yale: 68%, 746 chose elsewhere

6,853 declined a particular Ivy. Of that number, I would have to guess that the majority (probably a substantial majority) chose another Ivy or Stanford/MIT/Caltech.

There are probably at least a dozen schools that would consistently be chosen over the lower half of Ivy

Other than Stanford, MIT, Caltech...finding the other 9 would be tough.

+1