Brown's 25% SAT scores fall after going test mandatory

[Anonymous]

The upshot: all these gaudy SAT scores, especially at the lower end, was purely a function of test optional and not the sudden increase of high scoring applicants. Common sense I know, but for those looking at Brown or any selective school, don't be put off by a 1480. It isn't a bad score. That being said, make no mistake that your odds are higher the higher your SAT, especially going from 1490 to 1570. Roughly 3x better if you believe Ivies follow the Dartmouth model of admissions.

Prior to covid, Brown's SAT:

2019-2020
1660 freshman enrolled
61% submitted an SAT, 48% submitted an ACT [109% test submission rate, roughly corresponding to 10% submitting both tests)
25%-50%-75%
1440-1500-1550
1,118 students submitted an SAT score. Of those, 559 scored below a 1500; 280 scored below a 1440,

Post-covid, test optional
2023-2024
1695 freshman enrolled
54% submitted an SAT 22% submitted an ACT [76% test submission rate; assuming 10% submitted both tests)
25%-50%-75%
1510-1540-1560
914 students submitted an SAT score. Of these, 457 scored below a 1540; 229 scored below a 1500.

Class of 2029 stats, taken from Brown's admissions page (not its CDS or IPEDS data). It hasn't reported its average SAT
Admitted students (not enrolled, which historically for most colleges admitted students have a slightly stronger profile than enrolled students, around 20 points less on the SAT)

https://admission.brown.edu/explore/brown-admission-numbers

1,768 admitted freshman
25%-75%
1480-1560

Brown has not reported its SAT submission rate, but assuming it is around 60%, 1,060 students submitted an SAT, 265 scored below a 1480. When data is officially released for enrolled freshman, the 25% SAT will most likely land around 1460 to 1470.

[Anonymous]

In other news, water is wet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other news, water is wet.

+1. No one is surprised by this. Test optional applicants are not evenly distributed across the score range; they score on the lower end.

Brown didn't report a composite back in 2020, when scores were last required, but the sections were verbal 710-770, math 730-790.

[Anonymous]

The thing is, those lower scores are NOT AT ALL relevant if you're coming from a school in the DMV with a cohort of high performing students.

You're compared first and foremost against classmates and then your school district. Look at the stats for how many kids apply to each Ivy from a single high school in MCPS (or FCPS) or then the district at-large. It's dozens and dozens and then 1 or 2 will be admitted across the entire county. You can be sure that the 1 or 2 admits do not have an SAT in the 1400s.

The same goes for the top DMV privates. There will be 15 kids who apply to Brown (for example). Any admitted unhooked will be an
academic superstar with SAT of 1550+. This 100% was the reality last year when my oldest kid was a senior.

[Anonymous]

This is not surprising. Of course, people with lower SAT scores won’t report it, if reporting is optional. Once everybody report their scores, you will see a greater variety.

[Anonymous]

Did they have a dip in applications? I'm wondering if test mandatory kept some kids from applying.

[Anonymous]

In Test required the 25th percentile is for URMs and other hooked applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did they have a dip in applications? I'm wondering if test mandatory kept some kids from applying.

Likely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The upshot: all these gaudy SAT scores, especially at the lower end, was purely a function of test optional and not the sudden increase of high scoring applicants. Common sense I know, but for those looking at Brown or any selective school, don't be put off by a 1480. It isn't a bad score. That being said, make no mistake that your odds are higher the higher your SAT, especially going from 1490 to 1570. Roughly 3x better if you believe Ivies follow the Dartmouth model of admissions.

truly think 100% of DCUM knew this. It hurt some under resourced kids who were getting advice from reddit not to submit that 1450 from rural South Dakota. But that's not DCUM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The upshot: all these gaudy SAT scores, especially at the lower end, was purely a function of test optional and not the sudden increase of high scoring applicants. Common sense I know, but for those looking at Brown or any selective school, don't be put off by a 1480. It isn't a bad score. That being said, make no mistake that your odds are higher the higher your SAT, especially going from 1490 to 1570. Roughly 3x better if you believe Ivies follow the Dartmouth model of admissions.

truly think 100% of DCUM knew this. It hurt some under resourced kids who were getting advice from reddit not to submit that 1450 from rural South Dakota. But that's not DCUM

Not South Dakota, more like southern Virginia.

[Anonymous]

It's not just the 25% that is falling. Based on the above data, the 50% score will regress to the 1500-1510 level. So a 1500 is going to be the average SAT, which is below the 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

You can use Georgetown as a proxy for TT schools that are test required. 25th %-ile is around 1400.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing is, those lower scores are NOT AT ALL relevant if you're coming from a school in the DMV with a cohort of high performing students.

You're compared first and foremost against classmates and then your school district. Look at the stats for how many kids apply to each Ivy from a single high school in MCPS (or FCPS) or then the district at-large. It's dozens and dozens and then 1 or 2 will be admitted across the entire county. You can be sure that the 1 or 2 admits do not have an SAT in the 1400s.

The same goes for the top DMV privates. There will be 15 kids who apply to Brown (for example). Any admitted unhooked will be an
academic superstar with SAT of 1550+. This 100% was the reality last year when my oldest kid was a senior.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I believe there are multiple ivy admits at every FCPS school per the school’s senior year instagram posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is, those lower scores are NOT AT ALL relevant if you're coming from a school in the DMV with a cohort of high performing students.

You're compared first and foremost against classmates and then your school district. Look at the stats for how many kids apply to each Ivy from a single high school in MCPS (or FCPS) or then the district at-large. It's dozens and dozens and then 1 or 2 will be admitted across the entire county. You can be sure that the 1 or 2 admits do not have an SAT in the 1400s.

The same goes for the top DMV privates. There will be 15 kids who apply to Brown (for example). Any admitted unhooked will be an
academic superstar with SAT of 1550+. This 100% was the reality last year when my oldest kid was a senior.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I believe there are multiple ivy admits at every FCPS school per the school’s senior year instagram posts.

There were 41 freshman students enrolled at Yale from the entirety of Virginia last year.

[Anonymous]

Yes, that is to be expected and how math works.

When on 7% of test takers score 1400 or higher, yes going test required will drop the percentile scores.