Assessing proficiency in private schools

[Anonymous]

As I've patiently and repeatedly explained, the downside is that it would attract more score-obsessed parents to the school. Applicant pool is already highly qualified and deep enough to give the school plenty of choice among candidates.

Scores are sent out over the summer. Kids aren't seeing each other regularly at that point. And when they do, surprisingly enough, sharing ERB results isn't high on their list of priorities.

No teaching to the test -- just using the test to see if there are skills that aren't being acquired that should be. So maybe your students are great writers but their spelling is weak (and spell-check is obscuring that). So you take another look at your spelling program. Or if there are grade-specific weaknesses (same group of kids does great in one subject one year, not so great the next) -- do you need a stronger teacher in that subject area, are the kids back on track the third year, is it because your grade level curriculum is organized unconventionally, do you have good reasons for that sequencing?

In these cases, test results aren't determinative -- just an indicator (e.g. analytical reasoning tests are less reliable than math facts tests, especially when you're dealing with very bright kids who tend to see ambiguities and alternatives that test-writers may overlook). And the school itself has lots of other resources (unavailable to applicants) that enable it to put scores in perspective.

From the vantage point of an applicant, the scores beg crucial questions. Because they are grade-level normed, they give you no sense of how far above grade level the class (or some part of it) functions at. And because you don't see what kinds of scores the kids entered with, you don't know whether/to what extent test results are a function of high quality instruction vs. selective admission.

[Anonymous]

Oops, I've been scooped again by the Post.

[Anonymous]

Thank you 15:51

Well said

[Anonymous]

As I've patiently and repeatedly explained, the downside is that it would attract more score-obsessed parents to the school. Applicant pool is already highly qualified and deep enough to give the school plenty of choice among candidates.

Scores are sent out over the summer. Kids aren't seeing each other regularly at that point. And when they do, surprisingly enough, sharing ERB results isn't high on their list of priorities.

No teaching to the test -- just using the test to see if there are skills that aren't being acquired that should be. So maybe your students are great writers but their spelling is weak (and spell-check is obscuring that). So you take another look at your spelling program. Or if there are grade-specific weaknesses (same group of kids does great in one subject one year, not so great the next) -- do you need a stronger teacher in that subject area, are the kids back on track the third year, is it because your grade level curriculum is organized unconventionally, do you have good reasons for that sequencing?

In these cases, test results aren't determinative -- just an indicator (e.g. analytical reasoning tests are less reliable than math facts tests, especially when you're dealing with very bright kids who tend to see ambiguities and alternatives that test-writers may overlook). And the school itself has lots of other resources (unavailable to applicants) that enable it to put scores in perspective.

From the vantage point of an applicant, the scores beg crucial questions. Because they are grade-level normed, they give you no sense of how far above grade level the class (or some part of it) functions at. And because you don't see what kinds of scores the kids entered with, you don't know whether/to what extent test results are a function of high quality instruction vs. selective admission.

So this is your justification why private independent schools should not report these standardized test results to prospective candidates for admission and their families?

Fine. I accept your position but I don't agree. This attitude raises more suspicions than it quells. I think the public may be smarter than you think. You cannot hide poor performance for too long. Too many loose and leaking lips.

[Anonymous]

16:03

If a school is performing badly, then current families are not going to return. There is no specter of hiding. As the poster says, the ERB's are used to determine areas of growth or areas where the individual student is in need of help. In our case, it was poor punctuation. If you really think that my son's poor punctuation abilities will help you make a better decision, I am all for it. You can also judge him by his great analytical skills and reading comprehnsion as well as middle of the road scores in sentence structure and vocabulary.

I don't blame the school. He has been in two different schools. He just is really bad at punctuation but a really bad reader.

[Anonymous]

I meant good reader! Sorry

[Anonymous]

My take-aways from 15:51's post:

1. Her school is a top 3 (she talks about it's competitive applicant pool) so scores are high and she doesn't need to worry about the rest of us.
2. Her kids are already in a private so she doesn't have to worry about choosing a private like the rest of us. Beauvoir vs. Maret vs. Sheridan? Not her problem.
3. A concern that "test-obsessed" parents will throng her school. Where? I mean where is the family that worries only about test scores and not about class size or art? And if the scores at her school are so high that this attracts more parents and highly-qualified kids, is this a problem? Oh right, she said it was a problem, although I don't get why.

[Anonymous]

My take-aways from 15:51's post:

1. Her school is a top 3 (she talks about it's competitive applicant pool) so scores are high and she doesn't need to worry about the rest of us.
2. Her kids are already in a private so she doesn't have to worry about choosing a private like the rest of us. Beauvoir vs. Maret vs. Sheridan? Not her problem.
3. A concern that "test-obsessed" parents will throng her school. Where? I mean where is the family that worries only about test scores and not about class size or art? And if the scores at her school are so high that this attracts more parents and highly-qualified kids, is this a problem? Oh right, she said it was a problem, although I don't get why.

[Anonymous]

Yes, be very suspicious. And stay far, far away from private schools.

[Anonymous]

16:03

If a school is performing badly, then current families are not going to return. There is no specter of hiding. As the poster says, the ERB's are used to determine areas of growth or areas where the individual student is in need of help. In our case, it was poor punctuation. If you really think that my son's poor punctuation abilities will help you make a better decision, I am all for it. You can also judge him by his great analytical skills and reading comprehnsion as well as middle of the road scores in sentence structure and vocabulary.

I don't blame the school. He has been in two different schools. He just is really bad at punctuation but a really bad reader.

On the contrary, if the school is doing well -- average performance -- and 2 or 3 other schools consistently show very, very high ERB performance; do you think that a prospective student and family may use this information in deciding which school to attend assuming the day of the playdate was sunny, sweet music in the air and the fit and challenge was just right for their child? All other things being equal, is it rationale to plunk down $30,000/year x 12 for the higher ERB performing school? If so, why can't prospective families use this information as part of the decision-making process?

[Anonymous]

15:21 and 16:10 -- nobody is saying that individual kid's test scores should be released (the bright kid with ambiguities in 15:21, or the bad speller in 16:10). Or a school's many individual subtests.

15:21 -- ERB does norm your kid against other privates, and norms are available across schools. This is in fact the info that would be useful.

[Anonymous]

As I read through this "discussion" ... I find myself more and more opposed to the publication of ERB scores not for good and valid reasons, but just because I find the person(s) advocating their transparent and widespread dissemination ... well ... obnoxious. Please go to public schools. Please. They have all the wonderful data you seek.

[Anonymous]

post:

You may not wish to have the ERB performance trends to make informed school choices but why do you wish to block others from using this information to make their own decsions for their children?

Transparency is the win-win position. If this information is useless for some -- can it! Let others who wish this variable in their decision equation to use it.

Of course, private schools have the choice to do as they wish with this information. The superb private schools can get away with this position. The students and families will still come.

[Anonymous]

15:21 and 16:10 -- nobody is saying that individual kid's test scores should be released (the bright kid with ambiguities in 15:21, or the bad speller in 16:10). Or a school's many individual subtests.

15:21 -- ERB does norm your kid against other privates, and norms are available across schools. This is in fact the info that would be useful.

Similar to the SSAT, SAT, and ACT reporting. No one would favor release of individual scores.

[Anonymous]

Actually, 15:51, the scores are grade-level normed. You get to see the pctiles across a whole range of tests and subtests.

And please, enough silly straw men about individual kids who see ambiguity or can't spell. Aggregates, folks, aggregatess.

We totally get that schools use the scores to identify weaknesses in kids and teaching. Please don't repeat it.

What we don't get is why the rest of us can't see the scores before we plunk down $30K. Especially if the scores are as high as you say, this will attract more good kids. CThe specter of "test-driven parents" just makes no sense to me. Could you explain that?