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Assessing proficiency in private schools
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Anonymous
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16:45 again. I agree that children should try to get into their top choice ... but I am assuming that what makes one school more desirable then another (particularly from a child's perspective) would not necessarily be which school has the tippy-toppest ERB scores. And which school is each child's top school would therefore be quite different, despite the top 20+ schools are all excellent academic institutions. I can't believe that children and parents as well wouldn't also be highly interested in the sports program, or the orchestra program, or the degree of formality or informality of the culture, or the types of higher math courses available, or the availability of study abroad or internships during school hours, or .... you get my drift.
I guess I am making that same tired argument that ERB scores that are all high don't provide enough much information for which school one would wish to attend. And I know I have no data to prove that they are all high ... but I am not convinced that I am wrong about that for most schools in this area. |
Anonymous
Well yes, of course. Nobody is going to base a decision solely on which school has the tippy-toppest ERB scores. Of course we all look at the sports and orchestra programs and decide whether we like kids calling teachers by their first names. But it's *one more piece of information* among a variety of pieces of information. I agree that the top 5 schools probably all have high ERBs. When this would be useful is in choosing from among the 2nd and 3rd tier schools, and between these 2nd and 3rd tier schools and the local public. Unlike you, I suspect there are a number of 2nd and 3rd tier schools with so-so ERB scores. Or at least not better than the local public. |
Anonymous
| As I said about 13 pages ago, you can look at standardized test scores for private schools that qualfied as National Blue Ribbon schools. Not just the 2010 schools but lots of them. There's some actual data for you. Or are those schools below the "tier" that you'd be interested in? |
Anonymous
Why not? Some base decisions about what school to attend based on where their girl friend goes to school? Some aspiring Rhodes Scholars may make decisions about which school to attend based on "exmission" rates to Oxford University on that scholarship and opt to attend HYP? Others, wanting to get the tippy top SAT scores (where year in and year out 40% of the classes are National Merit Semi-Finalists) go to schools with the tippy-top admitting scores like Takoma Park Middle School, Blair Magnet and TJ so that they might join these ranks to get academic scholarships and awards to pay for exorbitantly priced education at their favorite super high performing institutions (based on those mean SAT scores). Some base their decisions on where their parents went to school so they can join Skull and Bones or a favorite eating club? Others to NFL farm schools in the SEC in order to optimise connections and chances to play professional football. Still others don't think much of the Big 3 schools because they are mathletes and wish to go to a tippy-top boarding school in New Hampshire where they can study math under the coach of the US Math Olympiaid team at the best high school in the world--Phillips Exeter Academy. I think many should be glad they have an opportunity to choose whatever school they wish to attend based on whatever criteria they desire. Many young boys and girls around the world don't have much option or choice for education. Just because you don't think tippy-top test scores make a school, or jock strap smelling division 1 gyms make a school, doesn't mean that others might not prefer these environments. Many jock strap smelling division 1 pro-team farm schools and tippy-top scoring schools bring other collateral benefits students enjoy and benefit from for a life time. Those that do not like tippy-top test score schools can go to top test score schools or bottom of the barrel test score schools. Fortunately, in the land of plenty, we are fortunate to have many schools to choose from. Some societies have few schools, options, choices and in this land of plenty educational options we have people with time on their hands and nothing to do but chastising others who prefer tippy-top scoring schools over middle of the road or bottom of the barrel testing institutions. And if private lower and higher schools charge $30,000 to $50,000 per year for education (in the classroom) I want to know how their students perform on all these standardized test the schools create, administer and use to admit and advance students. Other variables are easily accessible. For example, I can read the sports section of the Post or visit their website for how the schools perform in lacrosse. |
Anonymous
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14:47
I wanted to try and get my score higher. It did very little for me. What got me into college was my extra curricular activities and that my guidance counselor advocated for me. It was not an ivy league or even a step below ivy league. But I loved the school and really wanted to go. Will my children study hard for the SAT. Of course. But there is a difference between being prepped for a test with a tutor and using resources such as study guides to study hard. I agree should study as hard as you can. I am just not convinced that a course or a tutor is necessary. |
Anonymous
| 20:34, please post back here in March and let us know where your DC is going for the 2011-12 school year. |
Anonymous
| Folks have said over and over again that the need to know standardized test scores is legitimate. However, it seems some private schools just don't see it your way. If the criteria your family needs to judge and compare schools isn't available to you, you either don't have it and you still apply, or you don't have and you take your business elsewhere. I really think it's that simple. And furthermore, I highly doubt the private schools in this area are going to change their policy because prospective families (not even the current families who are investing in the school) are unhappy. Just my .02. |
Anonymous
Why did you want to get your score higher? College admission was not as competitive 30 years ago. Most students today prep for exactly the same reasons you did 30 years ago. Students today tell me the competition is viscious today. I did not prep for SAT 30 years ago, took it once, went to Little 3, Ivy + Ivy. I would not have gotten in today based on current standards. Therefore, I will not discourage my own children from prepping for these types of exams if they are criticial for admission today to schools of their choice. Since your scores did not budge when you prepped would you make the same decision again if in a similar position? Can you tell me the difference by being prepped by a tutor, Stanley Kaplan, Princeton Review, C-2 education, private tutor or thick Barron, Princeton Review, Kaplan, College Board encyclopedic tombs or on-line prep tutoring materials? Is there a difference when you take PSAT and SAT exams once or multiple times anonymously? Please explain the distinction as they apply to prepparing in advance for these exams ... or prepping. I'm interested your nuanced and calibrated response. |
Anonymous
Thanks for the advise. I think it is then reasonable for many families to seek admission into the Big 3 for their competitive, super high testing scoring children rather than pay $30,000/yr to a rinky dink private school that hides their scores because they are frankly no better than what public institutions have to offer in the classroom to high performing students. I think this is a very reasonable position to take to get the best return on one's investment. Keep the change. |
Anonymous
I think we're actually on the same page (I'm the poster you're quoting. I'm just responding to the person who is calling us (and some other posters) test-obsessed. Personally, to me test scores are important, but one of several factors. To you, they could be the only factor (unless you were setting up a hypothetical, which is legitimate). |
Anonymous
Actually, there's at least one poster who has said, a number of times, that test scores are not legitimate because (a) we are too dumb to understand them. (b) it would lead to teaching to the test in her school, (c) we are rude for even asking about it (!). I continue to post here because I'm trying to understand her position. I don't agree with most of her arguments. I just keep trying to see if she says anything that rings true to me. Of course, we can agree to disagree. But at least at the end of the day I will have understood where she's coming from. |
Anonymous
And we ignored you about 13 pages ago, because this is a tiny group of schools. In 2010 the program recognized about 304 schools nationwide, of which only 50 were private schools across the nation. Also, the program has a particular focus on low-SES schools, which probably disqualifies most of the privates in this area because low-income families by definition are usually unable to fork out $30K, unless they are among the very few who get full rides. In DC, only School Without Walls made the list in 2010, and it's not private. Would collecting 5 years of data, as you suggest, turn up a single private school in DC? I don't know. I certainly wouldn't bother collecting 10 years of information because schools change a lot over a few years. Here: http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/national-blue-ribbon-school-recognition-304-schools |
Anonymous
Point made. I did recognize this ... after the fact. I was not disagreeing with you though it may have been taken that way. Her comments are reminiscent and typical of many who want to change the rules of the game when they can no longer compete. This is a very difficult position to defend, or cower behind, with rationale arguments. Hence the nuanced (waffling) positions: I prepped 30 years ago but I really didn't need to, anyway, so we'll see if my children will prep in today's more competitive marketplace...or on the definition of prepping: taking sample tests and reviewing tombs dedicated to the tests is somehow different from a tutor (? on-line, off-line, physical, parents, other students, teachers, taking exams multiple times several years before D-day). We all know that private schools can pick and choose what information they want to release to the public. But, there is a reason why the public can always find out their financial status and their endowments whether or not these schools would prefer not to release this information. We know those that are disastisfied with a school's lack of transparency about the standardized tests they worship in-house can look at other schools, or better yet, find surrogates or proxies for how students from a particular school are performing such as the number of AP scholars, National Merit Finalists, Intel scholarship winners, Olympiad Science, Math, Computer Science winners, award winners in Music and the Arts. Some defer to the next level to do the vetting for them. In other words, if a higher proportion of students are getting in to Berkley, Chicago, MIT, the Ivies, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, Stanford and the like...that's a good enough filter for them and they will look at a school's entry rates to their "desired" schools at the next level. But, as the going rate for private school education (think dot com or housing bubble) continues to climb out of the reach of the middle class ... approaching $35,000/ year/child ... the public will continue to ask questions on this thread related to assessing proficiency in private schools. This proficiency will include multiple variables (some previously mentioned)--- including test scores. Those of us who went to private schools and have children in private schools should not feel threatened or afraid of this public inquiry. |
Anonymous
| So it only works for you if every private school releases test data. Good luck with that. |
Anonymous
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If your question is addressed to my post. No. There are other proxies and surrogate markers for those in-house tests you worship in private school. The correlation is quite good. The data that Blair Magnet and TJ release are examples of excellent correlative proxies. In other words, if you school produces only 1 or 2 NM semi-finalists/ year I guarantee the students are not doing as well on in-house ERB exams as those schools producing 30 to 40 + candidates per year. I don't really need to see the school's spread sheet.
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