Why aren’t males attending college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You mean white/Asian men.

This is actually true. I would also be shocked if any school would encourage a group like "Men who Write" or other such groups that would reflect an imbalance of men pursuing the humanities compared to women.

They sort-of do.

Large state schools don’t have a lack of applicants, so they can accept 50% men and 50% women.

Smaller or liberal arts schools, that are not stem-focused, try hard to get as close as possible to a 50-50 enrollment. With that, quite a few end up accepting a significantly lower percentage of women vs men.

This school is very welcoming to men who write or want to concentrate studies in linguistics or art or music. But We’ve already decided that we don’t want a school to advertise what applicants they need to get their enrollment balanced and more diverse.

I think most large state schools are closer to 60/40 women. UGA is 58% women and 42% men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Optional admissions.

Trend will reverse as standardized tests come back.

This.

Also the college board revamping the scoring to significantly favor woman by weighting the language portion double compared to the math portion.

This was done explicity to create this result, to increase the number of women in collge above the number of men in college.

What does this mean exactly?

More bs. I have boys who have very high scores on those tests and have degrees in the right fields and are finding few jobs.

Your boys are not the standard. Your boys are not in the high school and college drop out statistics. Look beyond your own kitchen table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You mean white/Asian men.

This is actually true. I would also be shocked if any school would encourage a group like "Men who Write" or other such groups that would reflect an imbalance of men pursuing the humanities compared to women.

At my kids’ school, the stem activities open to all (Science Olympiad, Math team, etc) are pretty much full of Asian boys.

Again, these are not the boys who will not go to college. STEM is not the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You are missing the cause. These areas are historically stereotypically male. The stem enrichment opportunities for men are not needed. STEM field isn’t pushing away men. These programs encourage women to get involved, bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

Similarly, for URM. Your argument is like these STEM enrichment opportunities explicitly for URM are pushing away ”majority” students. they are not. They encourage URM to apply, help bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

However, I am not aware of anything offered for males in stereotypically female courses of study. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists primarily to get men interested in the humanities?

NP. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists to get anyone interested in the humanities?

If boys are so incapable of succeeding in a feminized education system, why would anyone think they’d want to pursue stereotypical female courses of study?

[Anonymous]

So may parents relinquish their boys to the internet and video games from a young age—“that’s just how they socialize!”—and then can’t understand why they end up complete duds by their late teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You are missing the cause. These areas are historically stereotypically male. The stem enrichment opportunities for men are not needed. STEM field isn’t pushing away men. These programs encourage women to get involved, bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

Similarly, for URM. Your argument is like these STEM enrichment opportunities explicitly for URM are pushing away ”majority” students. they are not. They encourage URM to apply, help bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

However, I am not aware of anything offered for males in stereotypically female courses of study. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists primarily to get men interested in the humanities?

NP. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists to get anyone interested in the humanities?

If boys are so incapable of succeeding in a feminized education system, why would anyone think they’d want to pursue stereotypical female courses of study?

That's a different point. My only point was there are many initiatives and organizations starting as early as elementary/middle school specifically trying to get women and URMs interested in STEM where they are under-represented.

I am not aware of anything that exists for the reverse...an organization specifically that exists to encourage men to pursue humanities interests where they are under-represented. There are ECs/Clubs like National History Day and Model UN which are easily 75%+ female.

You are almost making a similar point...if women aren't interested in STEM (as others have mentioned, outnumbered 9-1 in many STEM majors), then why are resources being invested to try to change this yet not for men in the humanities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You are missing the cause. These areas are historically stereotypically male. The stem enrichment opportunities for men are not needed. STEM field isn’t pushing away men. These programs encourage women to get involved, bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

Similarly, for URM. Your argument is like these STEM enrichment opportunities explicitly for URM are pushing away ”majority” students. they are not. They encourage URM to apply, help bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

However, I am not aware of anything offered for males in stereotypically female courses of study. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists primarily to get men interested in the humanities?

NP. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists to get anyone interested in the humanities?

If boys are so incapable of succeeding in a feminized education system, why would anyone think they’d want to pursue stereotypical female courses of study?

That's a different point. My only point was there are many initiatives and organizations starting as early as elementary/middle school specifically trying to get women and URMs interested in STEM where they are under-represented.

I am not aware of anything that exists for the reverse...an organization specifically that exists to encourage men to pursue humanities interests where they are under-represented. There are ECs/Clubs like National History Day and Model UN which are easily 75%+ female.

You are almost making a similar point...if women aren't interested in STEM (as others have mentioned, outnumbered 9-1 in many STEM majors), then why are resources being invested to try to change this yet not for men in the humanities.

Because STEM jobs outpay humanities jobs by a huge factor, so it’s not fair to shut girls out of the STEM pipeline from an early age.

And I’m all for a push to get boys into humanities! I have a high schooler in a visual arts program that is almost entirely female, and I’m sure they would all love to see it more balanced by gender. But boys don’t seem to be interested. Despite the fact that 87% of works in major museums in the U.S. are by men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You are missing the cause. These areas are historically stereotypically male. The stem enrichment opportunities for men are not needed. STEM field isn’t pushing away men. These programs encourage women to get involved, bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

Similarly, for URM. Your argument is like these STEM enrichment opportunities explicitly for URM are pushing away ”majority” students. they are not. They encourage URM to apply, help bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

However, I am not aware of anything offered for males in stereotypically female courses of study. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists primarily to get men interested in the humanities?

NP. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists to get anyone interested in the humanities?

If boys are so incapable of succeeding in a feminized education system, why would anyone think they’d want to pursue stereotypical female courses of study?

That's a different point. My only point was there are many initiatives and organizations starting as early as elementary/middle school specifically trying to get women and URMs interested in STEM where they are under-represented.

I am not aware of anything that exists for the reverse...an organization specifically that exists to encourage men to pursue humanities interests where they are under-represented. There are ECs/Clubs like National History Day and Model UN which are easily 75%+ female.

You are almost making a similar point...if women aren't interested in STEM (as others have mentioned, outnumbered 9-1 in many STEM majors), then why are resources being invested to try to change this yet not for men in the humanities.

Because STEM jobs outpay humanities jobs by a huge factor, so it’s not fair to shut girls out of the STEM pipeline from an early age.

And I’m all for a push to get boys into humanities! I have a high schooler in a visual arts program that is almost entirely female, and I’m sure they would all love to see it more balanced by gender. But boys don’t seem to be interested. Despite the fact that 87% of works in major museums in the U.S. are by men.

You can't argue once more for specific STEM programs for girls...but then in the same breadth say there is no point in humanities programs specifically for boys because "they don't seem interested". Maybe they would be more interested if they also had a myriad of programs for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Optional admissions.

Trend will reverse as standardized tests come back.

This.

Also the college board revamping the scoring to significantly favor woman by weighting the language portion double compared to the math portion.

This was done explicity to create this result, to increase the number of women in collge above the number of men in college.

That's just the formula for the National Merit Finalist competition. That's only 16K kids a year. NMSF winners are rarely guaranteed to get into any specific college. And private universities have more leeway to gender balance anyway.

Your assertion smacks of conspiracy theory.

The opposing view would be that the SATs are set up to detect and differentiate math skills among the highest performing males and that the doubling of verbal skills for the NMSF competition is a smokescreen that conceals a discriminatory test by ensuring the number of female NMFSs is not embarassingly low and that the male winners have language abilities that set them apart from math geeks.

After all, the SATs' greatest strength remains predicting college grades. And women seem to be outperforming in that arena according to the press.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the point of going to college when they can’t get a job?
DS did his degree in microbiology. Hasn’t found a job in his field even though he applied to 100’s of positions.
The same is true with his classmates. There are those who went to grad school. The others are working minimum wage jobs that don’t require any degree.
DS is now attending a trade school to make decent money.

Folks need to do their research on the job market for hard sciences graduates. It’s never been good…Biology, Microbiology, etc. jobs with just a BS have always been low paying.

My SO’s brother biology major was barely earning more than federal minimum wage back in the 1990s…assume it isn’t much different today.

Not all STEM is the same.

Exactly. Don’t major in neuroscience, bio-engineering, environmental studies, or sociology. There are very few well-paying jobs in these fields. Study something that will pay the bills.

Lots of kids in great schools went into CS thinking this and are having a very hard time finding internships/jobs right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You are missing the cause. These areas are historically stereotypically male. The stem enrichment opportunities for men are not needed. STEM field isn’t pushing away men. These programs encourage women to get involved, bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

Similarly, for URM. Your argument is like these STEM enrichment opportunities explicitly for URM are pushing away ”majority” students. they are not. They encourage URM to apply, help bridge the gap for potential, and provide a support system.

However, I am not aware of anything offered for males in stereotypically female courses of study. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists primarily to get men interested in the humanities?

NP. Can you name a humanities-focused organization that exists to get anyone interested in the humanities?

If boys are so incapable of succeeding in a feminized education system, why would anyone think they’d want to pursue stereotypical female courses of study?

That's a different point. My only point was there are many initiatives and organizations starting as early as elementary/middle school specifically trying to get women and URMs interested in STEM where they are under-represented.

I am not aware of anything that exists for the reverse...an organization specifically that exists to encourage men to pursue humanities interests where they are under-represented. There are ECs/Clubs like National History Day and Model UN which are easily 75%+ female.

You are almost making a similar point...if women aren't interested in STEM (as others have mentioned, outnumbered 9-1 in many STEM majors), then why are resources being invested to try to change this yet not for men in the humanities.

Because STEM jobs outpay humanities jobs by a huge factor, so it’s not fair to shut girls out of the STEM pipeline from an early age.

And I’m all for a push to get boys into humanities! I have a high schooler in a visual arts program that is almost entirely female, and I’m sure they would all love to see it more balanced by gender. But boys don’t seem to be interested. Despite the fact that 87% of works in major museums in the U.S. are by men.

You can't argue once more for specific STEM programs for girls...but then in the same breadth say there is no point in humanities programs specifically for boys because "they don't seem interested". Maybe they would be more interested if they also had a myriad of programs for them.

Again, I said I was all for a push to get boys interested in the humanities. And teaching! And nursing! Let’s do it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, show me the evidence of where men are having trouble gaining admission to college. Does it actually exist? Is there evidence that men are applying to college and being shut out and therefore being excluded from getting college degrees?

Or are we talking about an increasing trend of men opting out of college for a variety of reasons, and men dropping out at higher rates than women.

If this is a choice men are making then you can't blame the education system or how SATs are scored or programs that are designed to recruit women into STEM. Unless you can actually show evidence that men are being shut out of college, this is about male preference, not discrimination.

Education is a funnel.

And over the past decade or two, the funnel has been designed to funnel away boys, starting in kindergarten.

Try to find a stem enrichment opportunity explicitly for young men. You can't. There are zero.

Then look for one for young women. There are dozens upon dozens.

That is just one example among many.

You mean white/Asian men.

This is actually true. I would also be shocked if any school would encourage a group like "Men who Write" or other such groups that would reflect an imbalance of men pursuing the humanities compared to women.

At my kids’ school, the stem activities open to all (Science Olympiad, Math team, etc) are pretty much full of Asian boys.

Again, these are not the boys who will not go to college. STEM is not the problem.

I think you are missing something. The combination of outreach and lower standards for certain demographics to enter STEM has come at the price of fewer seats for the traditionally strongest demographics for those areas, with no corresponding offsetting outreach for the latter demographics to go into areas they typically found less interesting.

But I don’t think white or Asian males are in general wanting outreach to them for placement into arts and humanities nearly as much as they want a level playing field for entry to STEM.

All that said, I think the bigger effect has been that as college became less affordable, parents became less inclined to push daughters straight into the workforce from high school than sons.

[Anonymous]

Based on our tours, it seems Asian ans SE Asian males are attending college. White, black and Latino males seem to be missing in large numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are busy voting for maga perhaps?

Exactly. Hoping to sit back so they can start life on 3d base again, yet claim "equality."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So may parents relinquish their boys to the internet and video games from a young age—“that’s just how they socialize!”—and then can’t understand why they end up complete duds by their late teens.

My college boys play video games and are doing fine. Let's focus on the real issues.