SFFA doesn't like the Asian American %

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one has addressed the fact that they can’t compel anyone to fill out the race question. How is SFFA serious? They know the data is incomplete.

SFFA is bringing this suit to lose it. Blum wants to establish that facially neutral policies that have a disparate impact on discriminated-against minorities are perfectly fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

The UK looks at grades and test scores, that's it. Asian Brits do better in the UK academically than any other groups, just like here.

pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (66.1), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (61.3)

people from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate in every year from 2006 to 2022

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

As an example:



https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity

Chinese make up 1% of the UK population but take up 16% of the seats in Oxford.

They don't need to whine about it because the system there is transparent.

My DC got super high stats on their GPA (from a magnet) and SAT scores (1580). My IL is here from the UK and was gobsmacked that a kid with those stats didn't even get an interview or on the waitlist for a T10. In the UK, they said such a student would at least get an interview at the top schools.

DC is a dual citizen and said that they would consider moving to the UK if they have kids because the college admissions process here is crazy.

You are dense and of course missing the point.

Is there a group of American expats/immigrants (not Chinese immigrants) sitting on London Urban Moms or Paris Urban Moms or wherever, complaining about the college system in those countries? Yes or no?

I think the answer is no...but maybe they are. My point is, they adapt to the system. You can do the same.

Even your references make no sense. Oxford has 26,555 students...Cambridge has 21,656. Just those two schools combined are nearly larger than the top 10 US universities combined.

Why are the Chinese even leaving China if they just want to compete in a Chinese system of college admissions?

You're super dense yourself.

People leave their home country for all sorts of reasons. Did your ancestors leave their home country because of college admissions? Hm.. somehow I doubt that.

The PP asked whether immigrants in other countries complain about the college system in the UK and other countries I answered, no, they don't in the UK because the UK doesn't have "holistic" admissions (and neither do most other countries), and their top colleges (like Oxford) admit Asian Brits at a higher rate than the general population because.. get this.. they score higher on exams than other groups, even native white Brits.

They do not believe that the university's demographic should look like the general population. Only simple minded people think that way.

and our top colleges admit Asian Americans at a higher rate than the general population too. Lots of groups are over represented relative to the general population at top US schools including Asian Americans

That's correct, but pro AA people bash Asian Americans for whining even as they are "over represented" at T10s.

Immigrants in other countries don't whine about the college admissions process because the process is fairly transparent. Unis in the UK will admit you if you have x score on your exams and grades. They don't care that much about whether you are a D1 athlete, or your parents are alumni, or you started a charity (with your parents' money).

College admissions process in the US is mind boggling, to the point sometimes it feels like a lottery.

DP. Only the top schools (Ivys etc) feel that way. University of AZ, SUNY Albany, and other schools do not feel this way. The point that everyone misses is Harvard is small even if they went by strict gpa and test scores, there will still be students with great scores that won’t get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Now Ed Blum's group doesn't like the decrease in admitted Asian American students at Yale, Princeton, and Duke.

This is getting ridiculous.

Excerpt from a New York Times article from today:

"The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules."

It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.

The percentage of Asian American accepted to these schools went up sharply when the law suit was filed. Not when SCOTUS released their decision. The schools were already ahead of it. So it's unsurprising that admissions numbers are generally flat for Asian Americans.

Doesn't that mean that these school might have known all along that they were discriminating against asians? It's possible that the effect of SFFA was already baked in by the tie the opinion was issued, but I'd like to see the Arcidiacono and Card reports on the class of 2028. Arcidiacono might get conflicted out because he is a professor at Duke.

What is interesting is how much divergence there is with how each particular college is handling admissions in the year since the decision. There is no uniformity. Most see value to the overall educational experience of their communities when there is a broad array of students with a wide variety of backgrounds. But there is no consensus on how to achieve that presently.

Most colleges and universities in the world has almost zero skin color diversity without being crippled in their educational mission. Most HBCUs lack diversity and that doesn't seem to prevent them from providing a good education.

And SFFA are just a bunch of political grifters out to make bank out of a hot button issue. I can assure you they do not care about the well-being of any student in America.

How is SFFA making "bank"
They have been single mindedly pursuing this one issue for decades with little to no payoff.
Edward Blum makes $50,000/year from SFFA.
He has an unpaid felllowship at the American Enterprise Institute so he gets access to their resources but no money.

When compared to outfits like BLM, the grifting seems hard to detect.

What makes you say this? I see a lot of problems in this world that perhaps could be alleviated if there were more skin color diversity in more colleges and universities.

For example?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

The UK looks at grades and test scores, that's it. Asian Brits do better in the UK academically than any other groups, just like here.

pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (66.1), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (61.3)

people from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate in every year from 2006 to 2022

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

As an example:



https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity

Chinese make up 1% of the UK population but take up 16% of the seats in Oxford.

They don't need to whine about it because the system there is transparent.

My DC got super high stats on their GPA (from a magnet) and SAT scores (1580). My IL is here from the UK and was gobsmacked that a kid with those stats didn't even get an interview or on the waitlist for a T10. In the UK, they said such a student would at least get an interview at the top schools.

DC is a dual citizen and said that they would consider moving to the UK if they have kids because the college admissions process here is crazy.

Test prep and cram mills are prevalent in Asia. It doesn’t make anyone smarter.

Good thing Oxford interviews applicants. Somehow, those Asian Brits are doing well in those interviews, too. I wonder if they have a "personality" score card, and whether the AOs mark them as low even as they have never met the candidate, while the interviewer marks their personality has "good". Oh, Harvard does that.

The interview isn’t equitable, but it also sent about your personality. You can have the personality of a rock. They are looking to see if you can respond to difficult subject specific questions, which depends on the Profs mood that day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Now Ed Blum's group doesn't like the decrease in admitted Asian American students at Yale, Princeton, and Duke.

This is getting ridiculous.

Excerpt from a New York Times article from today:

"The group that successfully sued Harvard to end affirmative action in university admissions last year is now threatening to investigate whether schools are complying with the new rules and to file lawsuits if it believes that they are not.

The group, Students for Fair Admissions, has focused on three universities — Princeton, Yale and Duke — where there were notable declines in Asian American enrollment this year compared with the last year, which the group said defied expectations.

On Tuesday, Students for Fair Admissions sent letters to the schools questioning whether they were complying with the rules laid out by the Supreme Court. Princeton, Duke and Yale also saw minor differences in Black and Hispanic enrollment in the first class of students admitted since the court struck down race-conscious admissions.

The group, a nonprofit that opposes race-based admissions and that represented Asian students in the lawsuit against Harvard, suggested that it was setting itself up as an enforcer of the new rules."

It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.

The percentage of Asian American accepted to these schools went up sharply when the law suit was filed. Not when SCOTUS released their decision. The schools were already ahead of it. So it's unsurprising that admissions numbers are generally flat for Asian Americans.

Doesn't that mean that these school might have known all along that they were discriminating against asians? It's possible that the effect of SFFA was already baked in by the tie the opinion was issued, but I'd like to see the Arcidiacono and Card reports on the class of 2028. Arcidiacono might get conflicted out because he is a professor at Duke.

What is interesting is how much divergence there is with how each particular college is handling admissions in the year since the decision. There is no uniformity. Most see value to the overall educational experience of their communities when there is a broad array of students with a wide variety of backgrounds. But there is no consensus on how to achieve that presently.

Most colleges and universities in the world has almost zero skin color diversity without being crippled in their educational mission. Most HBCUs lack diversity and that doesn't seem to prevent them from providing a good education.

And SFFA are just a bunch of political grifters out to make bank out of a hot button issue. I can assure you they do not care about the well-being of any student in America.

How is SFFA making "bank"
They have been single mindedly pursuing this one issue for decades with little to no payoff.
Edward Blum makes $50,000/year from SFFA.
He has an unpaid felllowship at the American Enterprise Institute so he gets access to their resources but no money.

When compared to outfits like BLM, the grifting seems hard to detect.

What makes you say this? I see a lot of problems in this world that perhaps could be alleviated if there were more skin color diversity in more colleges and universities.

For example?

In America, skin tone diversity does actually have tangible benefits to healthcare and nursing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The slight drop in accepted Asians is less than the increase in accepted unknown race category. Probably most of that unchecked race category are Asian. I think this SFFA is getting ridiculous.

I don't think the colleges can say "trust us" and have anyone take the offer seriously.

Racists always think a band aid should be enough but what they need to do is excise the cancer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean during the original lawsuit Yale said they couldn't have a diverse class without affirmative action, yet this year they clearly have just as diverse of a class. But of these three schools, I think Duke's in more aligned with the results of the lawsuit. By focusing on low-income North and South Carolina residents, they're able to keep their Black enrollment up without breaking the law.

I agree. If they gave a preference to poor North Carolinians, I suspect you can get the sort of result Duke got.
Yale, and Princeton (and frankly even Penn and Dartmouth) are harder to explain.

North carolinians represented 13% of the previous class and 15% of this class. If there was a preference, it wasn't big enough to explain the drop in asian admissions.

[Anonymous]

The uk’s education system would only make sense if our goal was to make a ton more academics. Otherwise there’s much to be gained from students who are more than a transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“It's not ridiculous at all. SFFA brought the action which was successful. Scotus said stop discriminating based upon race. Colleges and universities sent out letters asserting to alumni that, nevertheless, they remained committed to diversity (but only one kind) and started playing games in the essays. Not smart to thimb your nose at SCOTUS. The numbers of asian students went down! that wasn't supposed to happen. I hope they brong a second suit for clarification. The schools are defying the ruling and putting themselves in charge of race based admissions in America.”

Yes. It is quite ridiculous. SCOTUS is the most corrupt court ever and has no credibility and no ethics. They didn’t ban it for the military. Why is that? They didn’t address legacy admissions-otherwise known as white affirmative action. Why is that? Again, it’s all a lie. Nobody is entitled to go to these schools. Get over yourselves.

They didn't ban it for the military because national security holds a special place in constitutional analysis and the military academies have potentially distinct interests in considering the race of the applicant. Did you read the opinion?

They didn't address legacy admissions but SFFA did argue that they could achieve more diversity by abandoning legacy admissions but there is no constitutional prohibition from favoring legacies, but there is a constitutional prohibition from racial discrimination. Did you rad the opinion?

It's true, nobody is entitled to go to these schools, not even under-represented minorities.
It sounds like you are trying to defend racial discrimination when it suits your purposes.

Just a reminder of the vast gulf in academic ability of different groups:
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

8% of blacks get a 1200 or higher on the SAT
5% of hispanics get above a 1300 on the SAT
7% of whites get above a 1400 on the SAT
9% of asians get above a 1500 on the SAT

1% of blacks get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
2% of hispanics get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
7% of whites get a 1400 or higher on the SAT
23% of asians get a 1400 or higher on the SAT

Study harder and compete. Don't make excuses and complain.
Studies show that these differences are attributable in large part due to extra time studying. We've known this for at least a decade.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1406402111

If you don't want to study until past midnight every night, then don't complain that the ones that do get into better schools than you.

Academic ability as it applies to SATs only! SATs are only one factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?
Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

There 1000% is. In England a point of contention has been the lack of diversity at Oxford and Cambridge and they’ve changed from absolute standards because of so

Yes, because certain groups perform better academically than others. So, because some groups don't focus as much on academics, universities are having to lower their threshold to achieve diversity. And before you say, "academics isn't everything".. foreign universities see academics as really the only measure of how well a student will do in college. Even studies in the US have shown that SAT scores are a good indicator of how well a student will perform in college, and top colleges are starting to go back to test required because of it.

Perhaps other groups should ask why that is and act accordingly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The uk’s education system would only make sense if our goal was to make a ton more academics. Otherwise there’s much to be gained from students who are more than a transcript.

So, if your kid got into Oxbridge, you'd decline because their system only produces academics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

The UK looks at grades and test scores, that's it. Asian Brits do better in the UK academically than any other groups, just like here.

pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (66.1), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (61.3)

people from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate in every year from 2006 to 2022

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

As an example:



https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity

Chinese make up 1% of the UK population but take up 16% of the seats in Oxford.

They don't need to whine about it because the system there is transparent.

My DC got super high stats on their GPA (from a magnet) and SAT scores (1580). My IL is here from the UK and was gobsmacked that a kid with those stats didn't even get an interview or on the waitlist for a T10. In the UK, they said such a student would at least get an interview at the top schools.

DC is a dual citizen and said that they would consider moving to the UK if they have kids because the college admissions process here is crazy.

You are dense and of course missing the point.

Is there a group of American expats/immigrants (not Chinese immigrants) sitting on London Urban Moms or Paris Urban Moms or wherever, complaining about the college system in those countries? Yes or no?

I think the answer is no...but maybe they are. My point is, they adapt to the system. You can do the same.

Even your references make no sense. Oxford has 26,555 students...Cambridge has 21,656. Just those two schools combined are nearly larger than the top 10 US universities combined.

Why are the Chinese even leaving China if they just want to compete in a Chinese system of college admissions?

You're super dense yourself.

People leave their home country for all sorts of reasons. Did your ancestors leave their home country because of college admissions? Hm.. somehow I doubt that.

The PP asked whether immigrants in other countries complain about the college system in the UK and other countries I answered, no, they don't in the UK because the UK doesn't have "holistic" admissions (and neither do most other countries), and their top colleges (like Oxford) admit Asian Brits at a higher rate than the general population because.. get this.. they score higher on exams than other groups, even native white Brits.

They do not believe that the university's demographic should look like the general population. Only simple minded people think that way.

and our top colleges admit Asian Americans at a higher rate than the general population too. Lots of groups are over represented relative to the general population at top US schools including Asian Americans

That's correct, but pro AA people bash Asian Americans for whining even as they are "over represented" at T10s.

Immigrants in other countries don't whine about the college admissions process because the process is fairly transparent. Unis in the UK will admit you if you have x score on your exams and grades. They don't care that much about whether you are a D1 athlete, or your parents are alumni, or you started a charity (with your parents' money).

College admissions process in the US is mind boggling, to the point sometimes it feels like a lottery.

DP. Only the top schools (Ivys etc) feel that way. University of AZ, SUNY Albany, and other schools do not feel this way. The point that everyone misses is Harvard is small even if they went by strict gpa and test scores, there will still be students with great scores that won’t get in.

Certainly, but the US system for top tier colleges is much more opaque and much more like a lottery compared to other countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

The UK looks at grades and test scores, that's it. Asian Brits do better in the UK academically than any other groups, just like here.

pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (66.1), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (61.3)

people from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate in every year from 2006 to 2022

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

As an example:



https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity

Chinese make up 1% of the UK population but take up 16% of the seats in Oxford.

They don't need to whine about it because the system there is transparent.

My DC got super high stats on their GPA (from a magnet) and SAT scores (1580). My IL is here from the UK and was gobsmacked that a kid with those stats didn't even get an interview or on the waitlist for a T10. In the UK, they said such a student would at least get an interview at the top schools.

DC is a dual citizen and said that they would consider moving to the UK if they have kids because the college admissions process here is crazy.

Test prep and cram mills are prevalent in Asia. It doesn’t make anyone smarter.

Good thing Oxford interviews applicants. Somehow, those Asian Brits are doing well in those interviews, too. I wonder if they have a "personality" score card, and whether the AOs mark them as low even as they have never met the candidate, while the interviewer marks their personality has "good". Oh, Harvard does that.

The interview isn’t equitable, but it also sent about your personality. You can have the personality of a rock. They are looking to see if you can respond to difficult subject specific questions, which depends on the Profs mood that day

It's a lot more "equitable" than an AO giving an Asian American student a low "personality" score having never met them, even as the interviewer gave them a high personality score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The universities don’t have the sole mission of admitting the 1000 smartest students every year. That’s not their goal. They cannot say they thought because a lot of your heads would explode.

But they shouldn't be racially discriminating.
Racial discrimination is an impermissible goal.
And that is what they think is still happening despite the supreme court telling them to knock it off.

And frankly rank order admission to college based on academic stats is pretty common in the rest of the world.

America is not the rest of the world. Go to college in those countries if that’s your priority.

I am curious...is there an American Expat/immigrant community over in England/Europe/India that cries like babies about the admissions process in those countries?

Maybe there is...but I doubt it. I imagine those expats/immigrants accept how the system works and figure out how to make the best of it.

The UK looks at grades and test scores, that's it. Asian Brits do better in the UK academically than any other groups, just like here.

pupils from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest Attainment 8 score out of all ethnic groups (66.1), followed by pupils from the Indian ethnic group (61.3)

people from the Chinese ethnic group had the highest entry rate in every year from 2006 to 2022

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/

As an example:



https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity

Chinese make up 1% of the UK population but take up 16% of the seats in Oxford.

They don't need to whine about it because the system there is transparent.

My DC got super high stats on their GPA (from a magnet) and SAT scores (1580). My IL is here from the UK and was gobsmacked that a kid with those stats didn't even get an interview or on the waitlist for a T10. In the UK, they said such a student would at least get an interview at the top schools.

DC is a dual citizen and said that they would consider moving to the UK if they have kids because the college admissions process here is crazy.

You are dense and of course missing the point.

Is there a group of American expats/immigrants (not Chinese immigrants) sitting on London Urban Moms or Paris Urban Moms or wherever, complaining about the college system in those countries? Yes or no?

I think the answer is no...but maybe they are. My point is, they adapt to the system. You can do the same.

Even your references make no sense. Oxford has 26,555 students...Cambridge has 21,656. Just those two schools combined are nearly larger than the top 10 US universities combined.

Why are the Chinese even leaving China if they just want to compete in a Chinese system of college admissions?

You're super dense yourself.

People leave their home country for all sorts of reasons. Did your ancestors leave their home country because of college admissions? Hm.. somehow I doubt that.

The PP asked whether immigrants in other countries complain about the college system in the UK and other countries I answered, no, they don't in the UK because the UK doesn't have "holistic" admissions (and neither do most other countries), and their top colleges (like Oxford) admit Asian Brits at a higher rate than the general population because.. get this.. they score higher on exams than other groups, even native white Brits.

They do not believe that the university's demographic should look like the general population. Only simple minded people think that way.

and our top colleges admit Asian Americans at a higher rate than the general population too. Lots of groups are over represented relative to the general population at top US schools including Asian Americans

That's correct, but pro AA people bash Asian Americans for whining even as they are "over represented" at T10s.

Immigrants in other countries don't whine about the college admissions process because the process is fairly transparent. Unis in the UK will admit you if you have x score on your exams and grades. They don't care that much about whether you are a D1 athlete, or your parents are alumni, or you started a charity (with your parents' money).

College admissions process in the US is mind boggling, to the point sometimes it feels like a lottery.

DP. Only the top schools (Ivys etc) feel that way. University of AZ, SUNY Albany, and other schools do not feel this way. The point that everyone misses is Harvard is small even if they went by strict gpa and test scores, there will still be students with great scores that won’t get in.

Certainly, but the US system for top tier colleges is much more opaque and much more like a lottery compared to other countries.

But some of your high scoring kids will still get shut out. There is limited space always.