Is there a "post-truth" majority in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when newspapers, TV news, and other media become advocacy organizations rather than objective reporters of facts. I just assume they are all paid liars for whoever is the highest bidder. What you call post truth is people who have turned away from corporate media BS. Now the good news is that with the internet you can become well informed on any topic…more so than ever before in human history.

Agree. Covid really pushed this forward. It was pretty clear to any thinking person that it was highly likely that a worldwide pandemic that emerged from a city where there was a lab studying that exact family of viruses originated from a lab leak.

The idea that people who stated the obvious were called racist and were shut down by the mainstream media made it clear to me that journalism as we had known it in the past was over. No one wanted the truth, they wanted to carry out their bosses’ bidding.

Love the assertion that people were called racist for merely suggesting there might have been a lab leak. That's precious.

That's not why and you know it. You people were shunning, verbally and physically attacking Asians, even ones who weren't Chinese, you were yammering about "bat soup" and other things every chance you got. That was the racist part.

"There was no racism! We merely suggested there was a lab leak!"

https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2023/11/30/asian-americans-and-discrimination-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

I think we all agree racism is bad, but so is hiding the truth about the origins of the virus. As is calling people racist for speaking truthfully about it. This is why people no longer trust the mainstream media. They care more about the right PR than the truth.

Not trusting the mainstream media started long before Covid for most of us. Have you not heard of Fox News or MSNBC? They aren't newbies. Cables news is unfortunately mainstream these days.

That goes to op’s point though. Op and others posit that this “post-truth” era impacts only the right, when it’s clearly an issue on both sides of the aisle. We can’t trust our media sources to provide unbiased reporting. They don’t care about facts or truth, they care about the messaging they’re meant to provide. That’s true for both Fox News and the New York Times.

Yes but claiming that the internet is the great equalizer (like a pp did in this thread) is bonkers. Everything has gone to total shit since social media was invented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I don’t know how you can +1 the pp while writing that last paragraph. You are clearly supporting the exact kind of partisan BS that you claim to be against.

[Anonymous]

How is it partisan to point out the failings of both major political parties, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is it partisan to point out the failings of both major political parties, exactly?

Because, according to the idiots on this thread, it's not both sides. The Democrats use purely science-based agendas. And yet, despite evidence to the contrary, they still seem to believe this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I don’t know how you can +1 the pp while writing that last paragraph. You are clearly supporting the exact kind of partisan BS that you claim to be against.

That is utterly ridiculous. It is explicitly anti-partisan to point out that both sides lie heavily, which is in contrast to OP. You must be the kind of Republican that OP is talking about, the kind that believes every lie put forth by the party because the party told them to believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when newspapers, TV news, and other media become advocacy organizations rather than objective reporters of facts. I just assume they are all paid liars for whoever is the highest bidder. What you call post truth is people who have turned away from corporate media BS. Now the good news is that with the internet you can become well informed on any topic…more so than ever before in human history.

I have long held that elections are won by the media. These pompous, arrogant jerks pontificate and choose what they consider the most important news. There is no objectivity with the news including PBS. The media is responsible for Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a lot of stupid people in the US.

Some of them don’t know alot is one word

in la la land, perhaps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I think you are conflating the crazy media environment we live in for what the majority of people actually believe.

Covid was a nightmare we were unprepared for. I do think mistakes were made, but I imagine if the GOP had not created the environment we live in now, one where every mistake or admission of error is SEIZED upon and twisted by their propaganda machines, the way the Covid situation played out would have been very different. If we would have come together as a country like we did in WW2, imagine how different the conversations and responses would have been. Instead, we have come to a place where people dig in instead of seriously discussing subjects with appropriate nuance. The Dems can't win in this situation. If they try to have the nuanced conversation or acknowledge a mistake and try to learn from it, the GOP media will use it against them. If they won't acknowledge mistakes, the GOP media will use it against them. Meanwhile, the GOP hypocrites never acknowledge their own mistakes and continue to project their maleficence onto others.

I blame the GOP and their no-compromise, winner-takes-all attitude and willingness to bend every truth where we find ourselves. Social media has only helped them with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when newspapers, TV news, and other media become advocacy organizations rather than objective reporters of facts. I just assume they are all paid liars for whoever is the highest bidder. What you call post truth is people who have turned away from corporate media BS. Now the good news is that with the internet you can become well informed on any topic…more so than ever before in human history.

I have long held that elections are won by the media. These pompous, arrogant jerks pontificate and choose what they consider the most important news. There is no objectivity with the news including PBS. The media is responsible for Trump.

Agreed. And there is absolutely no honor left. It's all about clicks. And the desires of the billionaires who have bought up all the companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I think you are conflating the crazy media environment we live in for what the majority of people actually believe.

Covid was a nightmare we were unprepared for. I do think mistakes were made, but I imagine if the GOP had not created the environment we live in now, one where every mistake or admission of error is SEIZED upon and twisted by their propaganda machines, the way the Covid situation played out would have been very different. If we would have come together as a country like we did in WW2, imagine how different the conversations and responses would have been. Instead, we have come to a place where people dig in instead of seriously discussing subjects with appropriate nuance. The Dems can't win in this situation. If they try to have the nuanced conversation or acknowledge a mistake and try to learn from it, the GOP media will use it against them. If they won't acknowledge mistakes, the GOP media will use it against them. Meanwhile, the GOP hypocrites never acknowledge their own mistakes and continue to project their maleficence onto others.

I blame the GOP and their no-compromise, winner-takes-all attitude and willingness to bend every truth where we find ourselves. Social media has only helped them with this.

I haven't heard any admitting mistakes. They won't say the word. It's always, "We acted on the best available information at the time."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I think you are conflating the crazy media environment we live in for what the majority of people actually believe.

Covid was a nightmare we were unprepared for. I do think mistakes were made, but I imagine if the GOP had not created the environment we live in now, one where every mistake or admission of error is SEIZED upon and twisted by their propaganda machines, the way the Covid situation played out would have been very different. If we would have come together as a country like we did in WW2, imagine how different the conversations and responses would have been. Instead, we have come to a place where people dig in instead of seriously discussing subjects with appropriate nuance. The Dems can't win in this situation. If they try to have the nuanced conversation or acknowledge a mistake and try to learn from it, the GOP media will use it against them. If they won't acknowledge mistakes, the GOP media will use it against them. Meanwhile, the GOP hypocrites never acknowledge their own mistakes and continue to project their maleficence onto others.

I blame the GOP and their no-compromise, winner-takes-all attitude and willingness to bend every truth where we find ourselves. Social media has only helped them with this.

It’s some rich gaslighting to claim that the issues pointed out above were not and are not actual policy positions advocated for by Democratic politicians. Wow. Talk about post-truth.

[Anonymous]

Only those privileged enough to have been educated are allowed to talk! Silence peasant! Don’t question the “expert”!

/ what some of you sound like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I think you are conflating the crazy media environment we live in for what the majority of people actually believe.

Covid was a nightmare we were unprepared for. I do think mistakes were made, but I imagine if the GOP had not created the environment we live in now, one where every mistake or admission of error is SEIZED upon and twisted by their propaganda machines, the way the Covid situation played out would have been very different. If we would have come together as a country like we did in WW2, imagine how different the conversations and responses would have been. Instead, we have come to a place where people dig in instead of seriously discussing subjects with appropriate nuance. The Dems can't win in this situation. If they try to have the nuanced conversation or acknowledge a mistake and try to learn from it, the GOP media will use it against them. If they won't acknowledge mistakes, the GOP media will use it against them. Meanwhile, the GOP hypocrites never acknowledge their own mistakes and continue to project their maleficence onto others.

I blame the GOP and their no-compromise, winner-takes-all attitude and willingness to bend every truth where we find ourselves. Social media has only helped them with this.

I haven't heard any admitting mistakes. They won't say the word. It's always, "We acted on the best available information at the time."

Because lawsuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only those privileged enough to have been educated are allowed to talk! Silence peasant! Don’t question the “expert”!

/ what some of you sound like.

What is remarkable about this thread is the absolute inability of posters firmly entrenched in one side to see the lies their side promulgates or promulgated. That is why propaganda works so well. The extreme right and left are so similar.