Is there a "post-truth" majority in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I think you are conflating the crazy media environment we live in for what the majority of people actually believe.

Covid was a nightmare we were unprepared for. I do think mistakes were made, but I imagine if the GOP had not created the environment we live in now, one where every mistake or admission of error is SEIZED upon and twisted by their propaganda machines, the way the Covid situation played out would have been very different. If we would have come together as a country like we did in WW2, imagine how different the conversations and responses would have been. Instead, we have come to a place where people dig in instead of seriously discussing subjects with appropriate nuance. The Dems can't win in this situation. If they try to have the nuanced conversation or acknowledge a mistake and try to learn from it, the GOP media will use it against them. If they won't acknowledge mistakes, the GOP media will use it against them. Meanwhile, the GOP hypocrites never acknowledge their own mistakes and continue to project their maleficence onto others.

I blame the GOP and their no-compromise, winner-takes-all attitude and willingness to bend every truth where we find ourselves. Social media has only helped them with this.

I haven't heard any admitting mistakes. They won't say the word. It's always, "We acted on the best available information at the time."

Because lawsuits.

This is absolute absurdity. These are government officials. Lawsuits are not an issue.

The fact is that the Democratic politicians who championed explicitly anti-science positions and policies with respect to Covid did it for electoral reasons, and they don’t want to anger their donors by speaking scientific truth. That’s why they speak scientific falsehoods. It’s the same as the climate-change denying Republican politicians who know climate change is real but who don’t want to anger their big oil donors. They are morally the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

Discussing the lab leak theory was forbidden. It was actively censored. That's not "science."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

I’m not the PP but agree with her assessment of the anti-scientific lies and policies put forth by the Democrats with respect to Covid.

Why on earth do you think that observing the truth of those lies means she (or anyone else who agrees) is on the side of the Republicans? Your tribalism is a serious issue here. You claim that PP has a side just because PP pointed out anti-scientific policies by Democrats. There is nothing whatsoever in what PP wrote to indicate her political affiliation: she just accurately pointed out anti-scientific positions taken by Democrats in Covid. And in response, instead of a science-based answer, you went on a bizarre attack. There was nothing that PP wrote to justify your unhinged and assumption-filled tirade.

Frankly, you and your anti-scientific tribalists are the problem here. I absolutely agree that the Republicans adopted extremely anti-scientific policies in the pandemic. That’s not my side. But so did the Democrats, and theirs also did enormous harm. You are taking the position that the lies and anti-science coming from your side are excusable just because it’s your side. That’s absolutely ridiculous.

No wonder trust in our institutions is so low. It’s people like you who put tribal loyalty before truth and science. You are the problem here. Your partisanship blinds you to any truths. You’d rather scream about 5G and microchips than engage in looking at hard truths about what your own side did and does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

I’m not the PP but agree with her assessment of the anti-scientific lies and policies put forth by the Democrats with respect to Covid.

Why on earth do you think that observing the truth of those lies means she (or anyone else who agrees) is on the side of the Republicans? Your tribalism is a serious issue here. You claim that PP has a side just because PP pointed out anti-scientific policies by Democrats. There is nothing whatsoever in what PP wrote to indicate her political affiliation: she just accurately pointed out anti-scientific positions taken by Democrats in Covid. And in response, instead of a science-based answer, you went on a bizarre attack. There was nothing that PP wrote to justify your unhinged and assumption-filled tirade.

Frankly, you and your anti-scientific tribalists are the problem here. I absolutely agree that the Republicans adopted extremely anti-scientific policies in the pandemic. That’s not my side. But so did the Democrats, and theirs also did enormous harm. You are taking the position that the lies and anti-science coming from your side are excusable just because it’s your side. That’s absolutely ridiculous.

No wonder trust in our institutions is so low. It’s people like you who put tribal loyalty before truth and science. You are the problem here. Your partisanship blinds you to any truths. You’d rather scream about 5G and microchips than engage in looking at hard truths about what your own side did and does.

Wow are you seriously trying to gaslight us now by trying to claim that the anti-vaxx wasn't primarily and overwhelmingly MAGA? Or are you just that far out of touch? No, it wasn't "my side" doing that, and that's not "tribalism" - it's you being totally and completely full of shit. Show me mainstream Democrat politicians who were spreading anti-vax nonsense. The right was rife with them. The left, not so much. So don't try gaslighting or bothsidesing this because it's utter and complete BS.

And what about the hard truths of your own side's deliberate and willful spreading of anti-vax and "covid hoax" that your side spread? The hard truth is that there were probably hundreds of thousands of serious illnesses and deaths that probably could have been avoided. DEATHS. How many people died because toddlers couldn't play on playgrounds? NONE. Yet you have the gall to try and claim the left was somehow worse? Seriously? We may have gotten some things wrong, but at least people didn't die because of it. How many people died because some mod took down your bullshit COVID conspiracy post? None. But people DID die because of YOUR "covid is a hoax" and "the vaccines are more dangerous than covid" lies. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS died. So check yourself. The audacity of you trying to fingerpoint and bothsides this. Absolutely outrageous. SHAME ON YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

Discussing the lab leak theory was forbidden. It was actively censored. That's not "science."

Forbidden by who?

Name one person who got arrested for it.

Forbidden by some random mod on some random message board or social media site? Big fricken whoop. Sorry but that does not even remotely reach any level of "forbidden."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

Discussing the lab leak theory was forbidden. It was actively censored. That's not "science."

Forbidden by who?

Name one person who got arrested for it.

Forbidden by some random mod on some random message board or social media site? Big fricken whoop. Sorry but that does not even remotely reach any level of "forbidden."

I recall Republican House members trying to hold hearings on this crap as well, claiming there was a massive gubmint conspiracy to control social media. As I recall that ended up a bit of a disappointment for the Republicans. But I guess they don't report on that in whatever media sources these anti-vaxxers follow. Suppressed information, it seems. How ironic.

[Anonymous]

You can't gaslight people into misremembering what happened, which was coordinated efforts by government (leaning hard on social media companies) to shut down discussion. People are not going to forget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

+1

NP. I used to think of the left as the pro-science political faction. I truly believed that the Democrats respected science, unlike the Republicans. Then came two seminal events: Covid and gender ideology. PP accurately laid out the Covid shibboleths pushed by the left even in the face of grave and mounting evidence of the lack of scientific support. For gender ideology, the left adopted a faith-based, deeply religious ideology and medicalized it into the care of some of most vulnerable people in the country. What the left has done in the name of gender ideology in particular to some of the most vulnerable children out there is going to be recognized as a profound scandal in 50 years. Actually, the evidence of harm is already there, but in keeping with the antiscience bent of the current left, politicians on the left are desperately scrambling to prevent that discussion.

Now I don’t believe either party is the pro-science and pro-truth party. Not the Democrats, certainly not the Republicans. They are all just selling a belief system that’s designed to keep their grift going. Science and truth are irrelevant to both of them.

I think you are conflating the crazy media environment we live in for what the majority of people actually believe.

Covid was a nightmare we were unprepared for. I do think mistakes were made, but I imagine if the GOP had not created the environment we live in now, one where every mistake or admission of error is SEIZED upon and twisted by their propaganda machines, the way the Covid situation played out would have been very different. If we would have come together as a country like we did in WW2, imagine how different the conversations and responses would have been. Instead, we have come to a place where people dig in instead of seriously discussing subjects with appropriate nuance. The Dems can't win in this situation. If they try to have the nuanced conversation or acknowledge a mistake and try to learn from it, the GOP media will use it against them. If they won't acknowledge mistakes, the GOP media will use it against them. Meanwhile, the GOP hypocrites never acknowledge their own mistakes and continue to project their maleficence onto others.

I blame the GOP and their no-compromise, winner-takes-all attitude and willingness to bend every truth where we find ourselves. Social media has only helped them with this.

It’s some rich gaslighting to claim that the issues pointed out above were not and are not actual policy positions advocated for by Democratic politicians. Wow. Talk about post-truth.

No gaslighting. The comment wasn't about policies. Some of you cannot read to save your lives.

Thus the position we find ourselves in. Idiots everywhere pontificating about things they don't understand. You find that statement elitist. Not sorry. It's true. Most of you cannot critically think to save your lives. And we all suffer for it.

Morons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

Discussing the lab leak theory was forbidden. It was actively censored. That's not "science."

WTF. There are tons of articles about it. Just because you keep saying the lie over and over doesn't make it true. I know that's part of the GOP playbook, but we aren't falling for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:19:56 is a great example of “post truth.” Both sides is the stinking pustule that helps drive a world in which post truth is acceptable because when the GOP is lumped in with Democrats, that’s someone not dwelling in reality.

I'm a Democrat but when our party tells us we we mist pretend not to know what a woman is I start thinking of voting for the other guys even as terrible as they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't gaslight people into misremembering what happened, which was coordinated efforts by government (leaning hard on social media companies) to shut down discussion. People are not going to forget.

The FACT is that House Republicans tried to have hearings on that but UTTERLY FAILED to prove there was some massive coordinated leaning hard on social media to shut down discussion. You can check the actual CSPAN hearing video for yourself on how it was a failure. If whatever media you follow didn't convey that to you then you are looking in the wrong place for where discussion was shut down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

I’m not the PP but agree with her assessment of the anti-scientific lies and policies put forth by the Democrats with respect to Covid.

Why on earth do you think that observing the truth of those lies means she (or anyone else who agrees) is on the side of the Republicans? Your tribalism is a serious issue here. You claim that PP has a side just because PP pointed out anti-scientific policies by Democrats. There is nothing whatsoever in what PP wrote to indicate her political affiliation: she just accurately pointed out anti-scientific positions taken by Democrats in Covid. And in response, instead of a science-based answer, you went on a bizarre attack. There was nothing that PP wrote to justify your unhinged and assumption-filled tirade.

Frankly, you and your anti-scientific tribalists are the problem here. I absolutely agree that the Republicans adopted extremely anti-scientific policies in the pandemic. That’s not my side. But so did the Democrats, and theirs also did enormous harm. You are taking the position that the lies and anti-science coming from your side are excusable just because it’s your side. That’s absolutely ridiculous.

No wonder trust in our institutions is so low. It’s people like you who put tribal loyalty before truth and science. You are the problem here. Your partisanship blinds you to any truths. You’d rather scream about 5G and microchips than engage in looking at hard truths about what your own side did and does.

Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, you lost that pro science argument when the left went berserk during covid.

Covid killed more than a million Americans including members of my family. You think the status quo was called for during an extreme health crisis like that? Do you disrespect health care workers that much? Wow.

The decisions made during COVID by the left were indefensible from both scientific and moral standards. From shutting down the lab leak theory to the unscientific six foot distancing rule, to the closing of outdoor playgrounds and masking of two year olds, the destructive and useless extended school closures, unwillingness to acknowledge that cloth masks were not protective, to the forced admission of COVID positive patients into nursing homes, the mistakes and disregard of science go on and on.

The lab leak theory had no evidence to support it at the time. And just because it did later turn out to be true is nothing more than the broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day. Not exactly a victory, nothing to crow about in terms of scientific or moral theories. What was far worse, far more detrimental and far more indefensible were people like YOU, PP

- the ones like the PP who ran around claiming COVID was a hoax, or that it was somehow being grossly exaggerated. That dishonest propaganda of yours led to disregard to public health guidance and actually contributed to higher transmission rates, it caused deeper divisions in society and deeper distrust in institutions, and hampered efforts to promote vaccinations and necessary public health measures. And don't deny it, PP - your post is dripping with it.

- the ones on your side who ran around touting bogus unscientific nonsense about miracle cures, like hodryxychloroquine, ivermectin, colloidal silver and other things, which distracted from effective treatment and prevention strategies, led to dangerous self-medication and misuse of drugs, and promoted a culture of skepticism toward scientific advice and evidence-based medicine

- the ones on your side who ran around claiming getting infected and having natural immunity would be superior to vaccination - a claim unsupported by science, and what resulted is that people did not protect themselves and even worse, in some cases intentionally exposed themselves, leading to what should otherwise been preventable illnesses and deaths. It undermined vaccination campaigns, and spread disinformation about the nature of immunity and vaccine effectiveness.

- the ones who falsely claimed the vaccines alter DNA, or contain microchips - completely unscientific, immoral garbage, which fueled vaccine hesitancy and slowed vaccination efforts, and prolonged the pandemic due to insufficient herd immunity, while also eroding trust in medical institutions and scientific research

- the ones who spread totally unscientific crap saying "it's being caused by 5G" - completely indefensible, and detrimental because it misdirected public concern away from actual transmission methods, led to vandalism of 5G towers and attacks on telecom workers, and fostered fear and confustion in the public.

The PP does not have a leg to stand on here. The stuff the PP's side did was far worse than anything the PP wants to whine about. That's an absolute fact.

People like the PP damaged the science of Medicine: The spread of misinformation undermined trust in healthcare professionals and public health directives. It also diverted resources to counter false claims and treat preventable cases.

People like the PP damaged science: Disinformation eroded public trust in scientific research and expertise. It contributed to a broader culture of skepticism towards scientific consensus and evidence-based practice.

People like the PP damaged society: The proliferation of conspiracy theories and disinformation led to social polarization, increased xenophobia, and a general erosion of trust in institutions and authorities. It also complicated efforts to manage the pandemic through collective action.

People like the PP damaged the economy: Persistent disinformation impacted economic recovery by prolonging the pandemic and necessitating longer periods of restrictive measures, which in turn hurt businesses and employment.

Completely inexcusable.

Discussing the lab leak theory was forbidden. It was actively censored. That's not "science."

WTF. There are tons of articles about it. Just because you keep saying the lie over and over doesn't make it true. I know that's part of the GOP playbook, but we aren't falling for it.

Wait. Are you pretending that 4 years ago, saying the virus started in a lab wasn't verboten in liberal circles?

1. 4 years ago there was no evidence that it was a lab leak. None, nada, zero. At that point, you were just making shit up, telling lies and spreading conspiracy theories that had zero evidence to support them. Just like how you made up all the other shit about COVID. Turned out that this one thing out of the hundred things you fabricated about COVID turned out to be true. Still doesn't change the fact that you made it up and were lying about it at the time.

2. What's up with using the word "verboten?" You do know there are ENGLISH words for this? But instead you are trying to insinuate some kind of Nazi-esque thing here using "verboten." What a sick bastard you are. Stop with the idiotic hyperbole.

3. No, it wasn't even "verboten." As other posters have pointed out, nobody was ever arrested or prosecuted or faced any kind of serious consequences whatsover, LET ALONE Nazi-esque treatment for spreading dumb, unfounded and stupid conspiracy theories. Some mods may have taken your comments out to the trash (where they belonged) but that's about it.

In summary: Knock it the hell off, you just come across like a dumb jerk by constantly posting crap like this. And if you don't like my strong and frank response, tough. Many of us are way beyond sick and tired of constantly having to be polite and entertain your idiocy when you absolutely do not treat us in kind by constantly assailing us with your lies and garbage. You said you like frank and brutal truths - enjoy, because this is it.