Can I go on vacation out of state with my kids if DH and I have no custody agreement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

[Anonymous]

Negotiate a summer parenting plan in advance, with lawyers advice - it doesn't require a court filing for divorce or custody, just have a contract between the two of you.

You may need to compromise on the length of time. Because you are now divorcing, or separating, or whatever, you going to your parents is basically telling him he can't see his kids for 7 straight weeks. You may want to take them for 3.5 weeks, and then give him 3.5 weeks with them.

Divorce changes things. Get a lawyer and sort it out formally. It protects BOTH of you and your time with the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot take children across state lines without the consent of both parents. I used to work in a job where we sent children on trips and if both parents were not going, they both needed to sign all the paperwork agreeing that the child could go. I don't know if that rule is specific to certain states, but it was definitely the case when I had that job.

We got into this with our neighbors who were divorcing - the dad wouldn't take his kids on the big dad/kid trip our friend group does every year and it happened to fall on the weekend the wife had the kids so she asked other dads if they would take her kids (which we had done in the past for certain dads couldn't attend for whatever reason). The answer was no because they were going out of state (driving, but still crossing state lines) and we weren't going to get into it with her husband, who sounds like OP's husband.

What? Of course you can! Who's going to stop you? I've done this without explicit permission from my DH. My parents live in Chicago and have taken my kids to Indiana Dunes without explicit permission. You just can't take them across state lines to exploit them.

It very much depends on the state. And even if it’s not a state with strict parental kidnaping law, the dad can file for temporary emergency custody. 7 weeks out of state unilaterally isn’t going to be kindly viewed by the judge.

Errrrr...I've lived 5 miles from state lines twice in my life and never once asked DH if I cross them with the kids.

Are you being purposefully obtuse?

Yes, I crossed state lines with my kids last weekend, but my husband was fine with. OP's husband is telling her she cannot take the kids out of state. This is obviously a different situation she is dealing with. He has explicitly told her she cannot take the kids out of state. Do you want her to roll the dice and find out what happens if she does so against his explicit instructions?

Apparently, your DH could decide that he actually didn’t want you to take the kids out of state last weekend and called the police on you.
How are you going to prove that he said he was okay with it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Without a custody agreement you’re free to do as you wish. That being said I think your best option is to put the ball in his court. Tell him you’ll either continue the status quo of taking them for seven weeks like you always have or have him watch them by himself for the seven weeks you plan on being gone. If he chooses to keep them home to spite you they’ll survive and he’ll probably absolutely hate it. He’s only threatening you to be a prick and to control what you’re doing.

Or maybe you can use this as an opportunity to hammer out an actual custody agreement. That way everyone knows what they can and can’t do.

Yes. He's a jerk. You need to be the adult and use his stupidity against him. Call his bluff and propose to leave the kids with him, wait until he caves. Make him sign an agreement, so he can't call police as soon as you leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the feedback. He doesn’t want me to go on my own as then he would have to take care of them. I would love to go when my school ends but I am staying an extra 3 weeks because he won’t take vacation to take care of them alone. And his parents who are only an hour away won’t do it either.

Guess he has quite the conundrum and no clue what to do with k-12 kids in the summer.

He CAN order the kids back and file a separation or for divorce.

You both can do a one page doc on how to handle summers off. Might be more flying back and forth but 7 weeks is a lot of time.

How old are the kids? I assume under age 12 if they can disappear from their friends, sports, programs for that long and not be antsy. Sitting at grandmas house for days and days only works if under age 6.

DP. I stay with my parents every summer. My kids are on the summer swim team there and have friends in the neighborhood that they keep in touch with and text with during the school year. My daughter is into dance and is in an intensive dance camp near my parents house that she auditioned for last month over zoom.
It’s a different world than when we were kids.

OP has not disclosed the kids ages nor if she already signed up for camps. Deadlines exist and many camps fill up fast.

I'm sure we can help her find some camps.

Why is she looking for camps?
Whatever they decide, it is not her responsibility to find camps or make meals for her husband to feed the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the feedback. He doesn’t want me to go on my own as then he would have to take care of them. I would love to go when my school ends but I am staying an extra 3 weeks because he won’t take vacation to take care of them alone. And his parents who are only an hour away won’t do it either.

Guess he has quite the conundrum and no clue what to do with k-12 kids in the summer.

He CAN order the kids back and file a separation or for divorce.

You both can do a one page doc on how to handle summers off. Might be more flying back and forth but 7 weeks is a lot of time.

How old are the kids? I assume under age 12 if they can disappear from their friends, sports, programs for that long and not be antsy. Sitting at grandmas house for days and days only works if under age 6.

DP. I stay with my parents every summer. My kids are on the summer swim team there and have friends in the neighborhood that they keep in touch with and text with during the school year. My daughter is into dance and is in an intensive dance camp near my parents house that she auditioned for last month over zoom.
It’s a different world than when we were kids.

OP has not disclosed the kids ages nor if she already signed up for camps. Deadlines exist and many camps fill up fast.

I'm sure we can help her find some camps.

Why is she looking for camps?
Whatever they decide, it is not her responsibility to find camps or make meals for her husband to feed the kids.

If she wants to completely delegate to him then they should probably just get divorced…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without a custody agreement you’re free to do as you wish. That being said I think your best option is to put the ball in his court. Tell him you’ll either continue the status quo of taking them for seven weeks like you always have or have him watch them by himself for the seven weeks you plan on being gone. If he chooses to keep them home to spite you they’ll survive and he’ll probably absolutely hate it. He’s only threatening you to be a prick and to control what you’re doing.

Or maybe you can use this as an opportunity to hammer out an actual custody agreement. That way everyone knows what they can and can’t do.

Yes. He's a jerk. You need to be the adult and use his stupidity against him. Call his bluff and propose to leave the kids with him, wait until he caves. Make him sign an agreement, so he can't call police as soon as you leave.

How is he a jerk? He doesn't want his kids taken from him. She's being the difficult one by planning divorce and taking the kids from him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks again. I have no plans to keep them out of state permanently. I have been taking them every summer for seven weeks since kindergarten. I like the idea of me just going for longer so he is compelled to take care of them and I can take care of my parents. But they will hate it. They don’t have a close relationship and he feeds them sugar and unhealthy meals and no structure with video games and movies. They will enjoy that for a few days but not for much longer. They tell me they are still hungry on the one night a week he gives them dinner.

Make meals for them that he can reheat. They cannot develop a close relationship if they don't spend time together. This is a good time for them to spend time together. Movies and video games is ok in moderation.

DP. I am kind of codependent and a pushover, but even I would struggle doing this.
The guy is threatening to file for divorce and custody, and then have the police come to her 80 year old parents house.

And she’s threatening to take the kids out of state for 2 months while preparing to file for custody. I don’t agree with his threats but he’s not wrong to be concerned.

OP is coming off as a bit self-centered and clueless here - exactly like the type of person who would do something like decide “oh, it’s so nice here with the grandparents, obviously the best thing for the kids is to just stay here. I can get a new teaching job easily enough and mom & dad will let us stay here until I get on my feet.”

OP needs to face the reality of the situation and get the ball rolling on an actual custody agreement. And also accept that the era of spending 7 weeks with the grandparents is likely over.

I was with this line of thinking in my first reply until OP said he also doesn't want her to go without the kids because then he'd have to take care of them!

He has a FT job so obviously they’d need to arrange for childcare. OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.

Husband needs to arrange childcare since he's the one who has the issue. The OP is available for her kids.

That’s a needlessly high-conflict way to handle it. They can work together to figure out childcare. If OP wants truly zero coordination with her DH she needs to get divorced and get a detailed custody plan (which btw will almost certainly not include 7 weeks away).

How is it needlessly high conflict to ask your spouse to arrange for meals and childcare during the time they are responsible for the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks again. I have no plans to keep them out of state permanently. I have been taking them every summer for seven weeks since kindergarten. I like the idea of me just going for longer so he is compelled to take care of them and I can take care of my parents. But they will hate it. They don’t have a close relationship and he feeds them sugar and unhealthy meals and no structure with video games and movies. They will enjoy that for a few days but not for much longer. They tell me they are still hungry on the one night a week he gives them dinner.

Make meals for them that he can reheat. They cannot develop a close relationship if they don't spend time together. This is a good time for them to spend time together. Movies and video games is ok in moderation.

DP. I am kind of codependent and a pushover, but even I would struggle doing this.
The guy is threatening to file for divorce and custody, and then have the police come to her 80 year old parents house.

And she’s threatening to take the kids out of state for 2 months while preparing to file for custody. I don’t agree with his threats but he’s not wrong to be concerned.

OP is coming off as a bit self-centered and clueless here - exactly like the type of person who would do something like decide “oh, it’s so nice here with the grandparents, obviously the best thing for the kids is to just stay here. I can get a new teaching job easily enough and mom & dad will let us stay here until I get on my feet.”

OP needs to face the reality of the situation and get the ball rolling on an actual custody agreement. And also accept that the era of spending 7 weeks with the grandparents is likely over.

I was with this line of thinking in my first reply until OP said he also doesn't want her to go without the kids because then he'd have to take care of them!

He has a FT job so obviously they’d need to arrange for childcare. OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.

Husband needs to arrange childcare since he's the one who has the issue. The OP is available for her kids.

That’s a needlessly high-conflict way to handle it. They can work together to figure out childcare. If OP wants truly zero coordination with her DH she needs to get divorced and get a detailed custody plan (which btw will almost certainly not include 7 weeks away).

How is it needlessly high conflict to ask your spouse to arrange for meals and childcare during the time they are responsible for the kids?

When you are married things like childcare are shared responsibilities, not the sole responsibility of one or the other. Even if one parent is on vacation and the other is left with the kids, they are both still responsible for the kids.

Plus, OP would be an idiot to establish so clearly for the courts that she thinks he is up to the challenge of full custody, unless she actually wants to give him the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without a custody agreement you’re free to do as you wish. That being said I think your best option is to put the ball in his court. Tell him you’ll either continue the status quo of taking them for seven weeks like you always have or have him watch them by himself for the seven weeks you plan on being gone. If he chooses to keep them home to spite you they’ll survive and he’ll probably absolutely hate it. He’s only threatening you to be a prick and to control what you’re doing.

Or maybe you can use this as an opportunity to hammer out an actual custody agreement. That way everyone knows what they can and can’t do.

Yes. He's a jerk. You need to be the adult and use his stupidity against him. Call his bluff and propose to leave the kids with him, wait until he caves. Make him sign an agreement, so he can't call police as soon as you leave.

This is what I was thinking. I'm guessing her DH works full time and it would be unacceptable to leave the kids unsupervised while he works. I'd present the following and let him choose.

Plan 1: They go with you as usual.

Plan 2: They go with you for half the summer and you fly them back as unaccompanied minors/your DH can fly out and collect them. DH then needs to plan for camps/childcare during his time with the kids.

Plan 3: They stay home with DH for the summer and he coordinates their summer care.

Fwiw, I'd really have a hard time turning childcare over to my DH because he's never had to do it and wouldn't know where to begin, but if you two are divorcing that is going to be how it plays out anyways unless your DH leaves the kids with you every break, so why not let him start considering that now.

[Anonymous]

No op, you cant. And I wouldn’t go alone as he could accuse you of abandonment. You need to sort out your divorce and custody. Take the summer to do that. It will be a big adjustment and a lot of work finding new housing, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks again. I have no plans to keep them out of state permanently. I have been taking them every summer for seven weeks since kindergarten. I like the idea of me just going for longer so he is compelled to take care of them and I can take care of my parents. But they will hate it. They don’t have a close relationship and he feeds them sugar and unhealthy meals and no structure with video games and movies. They will enjoy that for a few days but not for much longer. They tell me they are still hungry on the one night a week he gives them dinner.

Make meals for them that he can reheat. They cannot develop a close relationship if they don't spend time together. This is a good time for them to spend time together. Movies and video games is ok in moderation.

DP. I am kind of codependent and a pushover, but even I would struggle doing this.
The guy is threatening to file for divorce and custody, and then have the police come to her 80 year old parents house.

And she’s threatening to take the kids out of state for 2 months while preparing to file for custody. I don’t agree with his threats but he’s not wrong to be concerned.

OP is coming off as a bit self-centered and clueless here - exactly like the type of person who would do something like decide “oh, it’s so nice here with the grandparents, obviously the best thing for the kids is to just stay here. I can get a new teaching job easily enough and mom & dad will let us stay here until I get on my feet.”

OP needs to face the reality of the situation and get the ball rolling on an actual custody agreement. And also accept that the era of spending 7 weeks with the grandparents is likely over.

I was with this line of thinking in my first reply until OP said he also doesn't want her to go without the kids because then he'd have to take care of them!

He has a FT job so obviously they’d need to arrange for childcare. OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.

Husband needs to arrange childcare since he's the one who has the issue. The OP is available for her kids.

That’s a needlessly high-conflict way to handle it. They can work together to figure out childcare. If OP wants truly zero coordination with her DH she needs to get divorced and get a detailed custody plan (which btw will almost certainly not include 7 weeks away).

How is it needlessly high conflict to ask your spouse to arrange for meals and childcare during the time they are responsible for the kids?

When you are married things like childcare are shared responsibilities, not the sole responsibility of one or the other. Even if one parent is on vacation and the other is left with the kids, they are both still responsible for the kids.

Plus, OP would be an idiot to establish so clearly for the courts that she thinks he is up to the challenge of full custody, unless she actually wants to give him the kids.

Yeah, bad idea. He can hire a nanny and file for primary custody and point out you plan to leave the state for two months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it’s fine. Don’t listen to the people on DCUM that always want to make out the mom to be the bad person. Talk to your lawyer, sure, but just send him something in writing stating your intentions and that this is not a new summer arrangement.

No, Dad is always made out to the bad one. OP wants a divorce. She needs to move out and file and do a 50-50 custody. And, coordinate with him. If he's working, not sure what is expected. 7 weeks is a long time and she can easily move away taking the kids and he will lose the kids. Feeding the kids too many sweets is not an excuse to take their dad away.

Where did she say that she wanted a divorce?
She said that she plans to come back. Even if she didn’t, the dad can move there too if he actually wants to be with the kids and not just control his wife. It’s not like it’s a secret.

Dad has a job and life here. He cannot just pick up and move. That is not reasonable.

OP also has a job and a life here, and someone is arguing that it’s not only reasonable, but highly probable, that she will pick up and move.

What’s it like to be a man and have it be against the law for someone to ask you to do something disruptive to your job or your life for the sake of your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks again. I have no plans to keep them out of state permanently. I have been taking them every summer for seven weeks since kindergarten. I like the idea of me just going for longer so he is compelled to take care of them and I can take care of my parents. But they will hate it. They don’t have a close relationship and he feeds them sugar and unhealthy meals and no structure with video games and movies. They will enjoy that for a few days but not for much longer. They tell me they are still hungry on the one night a week he gives them dinner.

Make meals for them that he can reheat. They cannot develop a close relationship if they don't spend time together. This is a good time for them to spend time together. Movies and video games is ok in moderation.

DP. I am kind of codependent and a pushover, but even I would struggle doing this.
The guy is threatening to file for divorce and custody, and then have the police come to her 80 year old parents house.

And she’s threatening to take the kids out of state for 2 months while preparing to file for custody. I don’t agree with his threats but he’s not wrong to be concerned.

OP is coming off as a bit self-centered and clueless here - exactly like the type of person who would do something like decide “oh, it’s so nice here with the grandparents, obviously the best thing for the kids is to just stay here. I can get a new teaching job easily enough and mom & dad will let us stay here until I get on my feet.”

OP needs to face the reality of the situation and get the ball rolling on an actual custody agreement. And also accept that the era of spending 7 weeks with the grandparents is likely over.

I was with this line of thinking in my first reply until OP said he also doesn't want her to go without the kids because then he'd have to take care of them!

He has a FT job so obviously they’d need to arrange for childcare. OP isn’t being a reliable narrator.

Husband needs to arrange childcare since he's the one who has the issue. The OP is available for her kids.

That’s a needlessly high-conflict way to handle it. They can work together to figure out childcare. If OP wants truly zero coordination with her DH she needs to get divorced and get a detailed custody plan (which btw will almost certainly not include 7 weeks away).

How is it needlessly high conflict to ask your spouse to arrange for meals and childcare during the time they are responsible for the kids?

When you are married things like childcare are shared responsibilities, not the sole responsibility of one or the other. Even if one parent is on vacation and the other is left with the kids, they are both still responsible for the kids.

Plus, OP would be an idiot to establish so clearly for the courts that she thinks he is up to the challenge of full custody, unless she actually wants to give him the kids.

Yeah, bad idea. He can hire a nanny and file for primary custody and point out you plan to leave the state for two months.

Then good for him. I’m guessing that he will learn to feed his children too? Or is OP still responsible for leaving frozen meals for the nanny to feed the kids?