wearing a jewish star

[Anonymous]

Basically, we know very well which spirit motivated that little tidbit of "advice". Here's a little explanation of how Jews understand your hypocritical Shylockism: https://www.tabletmag.com/feature/shylock-at-the-un

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I assume that anyone who wears a kaffiyeh on the streets of DC supports Hamas terrorists, especially very Nordic and black useful idiots who choose this to signal their virtue. In fact, I also assume they wear it with the same sentiments as swastika armbands used to be word in my grandparents' time.

So there you go, "I'm not racist but" PP.

Just like you are assuming of those Nordic and blacks "useful idiots" as supporters of Hamas and antisemitism, same way they might think of you as supporter of genocide, oppression and ethnic cleansing.

People often judge books by their covers. Unfair but that's how it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

First and foremost, you should wear whatever you want without fear of personal safety. If you want to wear a Star of David necklace, you should be free to do so.

I hope you read the next paragraph in the spirit in which it’s offered. I am not trying to offend you or other Jewish people.

These days, when I see someone wearing a Jewish star, I think they are signaling that they are ok with the carnage in Gaza. I know intellectually that Israel =\= Judaism or Jewish identity. I also know that support of Israel does not mean support of the current government and their actions. That being said, when I see someone today wearing a Star of David, especially someone who until recently wasn’t wearing any Jewish jewelry, o think they are signaling their “side” in the conflict. I know it doesn’t matter what I think and you should be free to wear whatever you want unconstrained by the biases of others.

Not OP. I appreciate the disclaimer you offered there, but that's still very offensive. Do you also assume that everyone who wears a crucifix is signaling their homophobia, or anyone who wears a headscarf supports Al Qaeda? (Not to imply that those things are all apples-to-apples by any means).

Not the PP, but they seemed to clarify that this was primarily aimed at people who did not previously wear religious jewelry and began after October 7. Honestly, I disagree because I do think 10/7 was a traumatizing event that may have led people re-embrace public Judaism, but I don't think PP was wildly out of line.

I'm from Eastern Europe, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine caused me to be more "visibly" from my home country, given that we'd certainly be next on the list for re-establishment of a Russian sphere of influence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

First and foremost, you should wear whatever you want without fear of personal safety. If you want to wear a Star of David necklace, you should be free to do so.

I hope you read the next paragraph in the spirit in which it’s offered. I am not trying to offend you or other Jewish people.

These days, when I see someone wearing a Jewish star, I think they are signaling that they are ok with the carnage in Gaza. I know intellectually that Israel =\= Judaism or Jewish identity. I also know that support of Israel does not mean support of the current government and their actions. That being said, when I see someone today wearing a Star of David, especially someone who until recently wasn’t wearing any Jewish jewelry, o think they are signaling their “side” in the conflict. I know it doesn’t matter what I think and you should be free to wear whatever you want unconstrained by the biases of others.

Not OP. I appreciate the disclaimer you offered there, but that's still very offensive. Do you also assume that everyone who wears a crucifix is signaling their homophobia, or anyone who wears a headscarf supports Al Qaeda? (Not to imply that those things are all apples-to-apples by any means).

I probably wouldn’t notice jewelry on a stranger (or ascribe motives to it). If I knew someone who has over our acquaintance worn a Star of David occasionally, I wouldn’t think twice about them continuing. But if I saw a friend who had not previously worn this type of jewelry, I wound assume they are signaling support for Israel even if it means poor outcomes for Palestinians.

Again this in no way means that OP should not feel safe and free to express herself however she wants to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter wears hers to school (a Jewish school) but I wouldn’t let her wear it out otherwise

my mother only let me wear my star of david necklace to synagogue or jewish friends houses when growing up in the midwest in the 1980s. her having me hide my identity through my childhood killed any relationship with judaism for two decades. it seems minor, but please think about the message you are sending your child, which can be construed as having a shameful identity.

I’m the PP. Thanks for your thoughts - I know and I do think about this aspect too, but we have a very rich Jewish life and we are very involved in our community so I don’t think she will feel that she has to hide her identity. I grew up in Europe and none of my family would ever wear anything that would identify us as Jewish, for good reason, and so maybe I am overreacting here, but my main concern is her safety. I’m less concerned about her when we are all out together but I don’t want her wearing it openly when she walks home from the bus stop, or goes out alone to the store, for example

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that anyone who wears a kaffiyeh on the streets of DC supports Hamas terrorists, especially very Nordic and black useful idiots who choose this to signal their virtue. In fact, I also assume they wear it with the same sentiments as swastika armbands used to be word in my grandparents' time.

So there you go, "I'm not racist but" PP.

Just like you are assuming of those Nordic and blacks "useful idiots" as supporters of Hamas and antisemitism, same way they might think of you as supporter of genocide, oppression and ethnic cleansing.

People often judge books by their covers. Unfair but that's how it is.

Those of you who believe Jews who stand their ground are "supporters of genocide, oppression and ethnic cleansing" are victims of disinformation. You are easy targets for this disinformation because it confirms, and indeed activates, the prejudices about Jews and Jewish guilt you inherited as an important part of the intellectual legacy of the Christian and Islamic worlds.

[Anonymous]

Read the Shylockism article through to the end. It's much longer than a TikTok video, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be anti this and kind of felt that it was slightly yucky to go around with your religion around your neck. I felt the same way about crosses too. Since everything that's been going on, I'm wondering if this is something that I should reconsider as a way of showing solidarity with other Jews.

Please don't turn this into a rabid antisemitic thread or one that starts going into Gaza or it will be shut down. I'm curious about the ways that people want to show their jewishness in the current cultural climate. I've seen a lot of very pretty tiny jewish stars. It would just be a real departure from what I've been doing for about 40+ years!

I don't do it simply for a sense of safety. There are a lot of antisemites out there, and I'm not interested in an encounter.

Not Jewish, fwiw, but I completely get where you're coming from. Sadly, though, I'd agree with this PP.

Not Jewish. Feel free to wear it and wear it with pride. It sounds stupid but I made a point of putting blue and white items and a small I support Israel sign out when I put out my Christmas stuff. I'm not going to stand by and watch people attack Jewish people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

First and foremost, you should wear whatever you want without fear of personal safety. If you want to wear a Star of David necklace, you should be free to do so.

I hope you read the next paragraph in the spirit in which it’s offered. I am not trying to offend you or other Jewish people.

These days, when I see someone wearing a Jewish star, I think they are signaling that they are ok with the carnage in Gaza. I know intellectually that Israel =\= Judaism or Jewish identity. I also know that support of Israel does not mean support of the current government and their actions. That being said, when I see someone today wearing a Star of David, especially someone who until recently wasn’t wearing any Jewish jewelry, o think they are signaling their “side” in the conflict. I know it doesn’t matter what I think and you should be free to wear whatever you want unconstrained by the biases of others.

Not OP. I appreciate the disclaimer you offered there, but that's still very offensive. Do you also assume that everyone who wears a crucifix is signaling their homophobia, or anyone who wears a headscarf supports Al Qaeda? (Not to imply that those things are all apples-to-apples by any means).

I probably wouldn’t notice jewelry on a stranger (or ascribe motives to it). If I knew someone who has over our acquaintance worn a Star of David occasionally, I wouldn’t think twice about them continuing. But if I saw a friend who had not previously worn this type of jewelry, I wound assume they are signaling support for Israel even if it means poor outcomes for Palestinians.

Again this in no way means that OP should not feel safe and free to express herself however she wants to.

I think most people in the US who are reacting to October 7 by wearing a Star of David (or being more visibly Jewish in other ways) are motivated by the same thing that motivated Jews to wear a Star of David after the Tree of Life shooting in Pittsburgh or after the "Jews will not replace us" rally in Charlottesville. It's a reaction to hate aimed at us.

In some cases, it might be support for Israel, but it's definitely NOT safe to assume that. For one thing, there are forms of support for Israel (dog tag necklaces, blue ribbons, etc) that are direct reactions to this particular war and people who want to express support for the IDF or Israel's war effort are wearing those. For another thing, even many Israelis aren't supportive of Bibi's government (see the numerous failed elections Israel went through over the past few years and the protests all summer after he was finally reelected), so it's ignorant to assume that your neighbor here in the US pulled their Star of David necklace out of their jewelry box specifically in support of Israel's response in Gaza, rather than in solidarity with Israeli victims and hostages or their own sense of Jewish identity following the rise in antisemitism worldwide.

Honestly, I know a lot of pretty secular American Jews, including some of my family, who are really struggling with the death toll in Gaza, but who at the same time felt very little support from the non-Jewish world on October 7 and October 8 (before Israel's counter-offensive when it should have been easy to condemn Hamas), let alone in the months since. And that initial lack of support (or outright celebration of Hamas' attack as "resistance") underscored how alone the Jewish people really are in the world. So, even with serious misgivings about the particulars of Israel's military campaign, lots of Jews are wearing the Star of David for Jewish pride and solidarity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

You've never worked anywhere I guess. I am not religious. Trying living in the south and not having a church. It's one of the first thing people ask when you meet. Lots of people wear crosses and other religious symbols at work. I don't understand how that upsets them. Their body, their choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

And rulings have consistently been that religious people are free to wear them. There is no uncertainty here.

Yeah, "there have been Supreme Court case". There have also been rulings, you idiot. You are advocating the same line of thinking that prohibits women from covering their heads (whether Muslim or Christian--this is also a historical Christian practice) or taking on other self-identifying marks of faith. Just because YOU don't think these symbols are important doesn't mean you can enforce that on everyone else.

Whoosh. Look who’s calling who an idiot.

The question is, do you really want all your Christian and Palestinian coworkers saying, hey, cool, it’s ok again to broadcast our religions (after not being completely ok for a while), so I’ll go ahead pull my confirmation cross/moon back out?

Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by crosses at work or being treated by someone with a cross.

So yeah, those people have brought cases all the way to the Supreme Court. As you rudely said as you missed the point, yeah, SCOTUS has ruled. But the point was the discomfort that made people bring the cases. I take it you’d be fine it though.

I got your point, but I didn't respond to the stupidest part, the "uncomfortable" comment.

What you're really saying is that you're such a bigot that if your Muslim coworker was wearing a crescent necklace you would be...what? "Uncomfortable" to the point of, again, what? It's an absurd and stupid point. You are talking about "comfort" vs. someone closely held religious belief that does not hurt you.

Be "uncomfortable". It is the tiny, tiny price of living in a free, pluralist society.

You can ensure that nobody, ever, would be made uncomfortable by this? Why did anybody bring cases that went all the way to the Supreme Court, then?

No, you have it exactly backwards. I am sure people will be made uncomfortable. My point is that that is okay. It is okay that people are sometimes uncomfortable in their workplaces. Some people disagree, and think they should never have to be uncomfortable at work, so they litigated all the way to the Supreme Court. SCOTUS spoke: Sometimes you have to be a little uncomfortable at work.

See?

I got the decision and you sound like a broken record.

You keep deliberately missing the point. It's that some people ARE uncomfortable. Viz the several religious minorities in this thread who claim they are put off by Christmas displays.

Pls explain why you want to encourage another type of identity politics, where everybody wears their religious signs around their necks. Yes, yes, you can stop repeating already that SCOTUS has sanctioned this. But do you think it's a good idea for anybody (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu) to be putting their religion in others' faces?

Wearing a religious symbol as jewelry is not identity politics, sorry. It is merely identity, and must be protected.

As to your assertion that someone wearing a religious necklace is putting their religion in your face...well, get your face off their neck, I guess.

I won't respond to you any more. The stupid is too much.

Exactly. I am not religious at all but pp's hysterical assertion that wearing a religious sign on a necklace is putting religion in somone else's face deserves derision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am neither religious nor Jewish so take this with a grain of salt but I think display of identity (any identity) is in bad taste and I roll my eyes secretly at all those.
Discuss this with your loved ones; I have no need to know your identity.
Signed,
A naturalized American

Nobody is displaying their identity for your sake. You know that, right? People tend to dress a certain way to be who they are, because they like it, maybe they want to signal to their own group, show respect to their culture or religion or reflect it, maybe it’s what they find fun or beautiful. It never has anything to do with you and your thoughts.

I believe pp has some type of personality disorder. Everything on earth centers around how it makes that poster feel and clearly pp thinks her opinion of us should matter greatly to us. PP we all need your contact information so we can confer on important matters like clothing to ensure we do nothing that you would judge us for. The shame of daring to have an "identity".

We see you pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Basically, we know very well which spirit motivated that little tidbit of "advice". Here's a little explanation of how Jews understand your hypocritical Shylockism: https://www.tabletmag.com/feature/shylock-at-the-un

Wow. I didn’t think there were any new takes on the war, but this one was new to me, and I’ll be thinking about it for a while. Thank you for sharing.

[Anonymous]

That's an amazing piece of writing. Thank you. I doubt many people these days will have the tolerance necessary to read it, but it's well worth it even if you have to float a bit through it.

It's the second to last line that is the essence of it all. It helps me understand a question that has really taken hold in me about why so many people have gotten so swept up in this in a way that makes them feel so certain of how right they are about this conflict even though they are far away and not connected. It's not less disappointing, but it explains a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

First and foremost, you should wear whatever you want without fear of personal safety. If you want to wear a Star of David necklace, you should be free to do so.

I hope you read the next paragraph in the spirit in which it’s offered. I am not trying to offend you or other Jewish people.

These days, when I see someone wearing a Jewish star, I think they are signaling that they are ok with the carnage in Gaza. I know intellectually that Israel =\= Judaism or Jewish identity. I also know that support of Israel does not mean support of the current government and their actions. That being said, when I see someone today wearing a Star of David, especially someone who until recently wasn’t wearing any Jewish jewelry, o think they are signaling their “side” in the conflict. I know it doesn’t matter what I think and you should be free to wear whatever you want unconstrained by the biases of others.

Not OP. I appreciate the disclaimer you offered there, but that's still very offensive. Do you also assume that everyone who wears a crucifix is signaling their homophobia, or anyone who wears a headscarf supports Al Qaeda? (Not to imply that those things are all apples-to-apples by any means).

I probably wouldn’t notice jewelry on a stranger (or ascribe motives to it). If I knew someone who has over our acquaintance worn a Star of David occasionally, I wouldn’t think twice about them continuing. But if I saw a friend who had not previously worn this type of jewelry, I wound assume they are signaling support for Israel even if it means poor outcomes for Palestinians.

Again this in no way means that OP should not feel safe and free to express herself however she wants to.

I think most people in the US who are reacting to October 7 by wearing a Star of David (or being more visibly Jewish in other ways) are motivated by the same thing that motivated Jews to wear a Star of David after the Tree of Life shooting in Pittsburgh or after the "Jews will not replace us" rally in Charlottesville. It's a reaction to hate aimed at us.

In some cases, it might be support for Israel, but it's definitely NOT safe to assume that. For one thing, there are forms of support for Israel (dog tag necklaces, blue ribbons, etc) that are direct reactions to this particular war and people who want to express support for the IDF or Israel's war effort are wearing those. For another thing, even many Israelis aren't supportive of Bibi's government (see the numerous failed elections Israel went through over the past few years and the protests all summer after he was finally reelected), so it's ignorant to assume that your neighbor here in the US pulled their Star of David necklace out of their jewelry box specifically in support of Israel's response in Gaza, rather than in solidarity with Israeli victims and hostages or their own sense of Jewish identity following the rise in antisemitism worldwide.

Honestly, I know a lot of pretty secular American Jews, including some of my family, who are really struggling with the death toll in Gaza, but who at the same time felt very little support from the non-Jewish world on October 7 and October 8 (before Israel's counter-offensive when it should have been easy to condemn Hamas), let alone in the months since. And that initial lack of support (or outright celebration of Hamas' attack as "resistance") underscored how alone the Jewish people really are in the world. So, even with serious misgivings about the particulars of Israel's military campaign, lots of Jews are wearing the Star of David for Jewish pride and solidarity.

That is really well put, PP - and really describes my own thoughts and feelings, and a lot of people I know.

I think people who aren't Jewish don't really understand how shocking this has been for us. How, paradoxically, it's pushed us closer to Israel - even if we've been very critical before, and are very critical now.