wearing a jewish star

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

And rulings have consistently been that religious people are free to wear them. There is no uncertainty here.

Yeah, "there have been Supreme Court case". There have also been rulings, you idiot. You are advocating the same line of thinking that prohibits women from covering their heads (whether Muslim or Christian--this is also a historical Christian practice) or taking on other self-identifying marks of faith. Just because YOU don't think these symbols are important doesn't mean you can enforce that on everyone else.

Whoosh. Look who’s calling who an idiot.

The question is, do you really want all your Christian and Palestinian coworkers saying, hey, cool, it’s ok again to broadcast our religions (after not being completely ok for a while), so I’ll go ahead pull my confirmation cross/moon back out?

Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by crosses at work or being treated by someone with a cross.

So yeah, those people have brought cases all the way to the Supreme Court. As you rudely said as you missed the point, yeah, SCOTUS has ruled. But the point was the discomfort that made people bring the cases. I take it you’d be fine it though.

Most non-Christians hardly need people to wear crucifixes to know that we're minority religions, actually.

Not the point. Do you want Christianity in your face every day? Yeah, didn't think so. There are some pretty bigoted Jews on DCUM and I can imagine their heads exploding.

Can we get a clarification on what you meant?

The one(s) who tell us they're Jewish and proceed to blast Catholics for being Catholic. I'm not Catholic, and yeah I know there was this thing called the Inquisition. But blasting modern day Catholics simply for being Catholic is... bigoted. I usually report those posts.

Okay? I’m really unsure what your point is here. Some Jews are bigoted and therefore no Jews should wear anything that visibly identifies them as Jewish? is that the train of logic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

And rulings have consistently been that religious people are free to wear them. There is no uncertainty here.

Yeah, "there have been Supreme Court case". There have also been rulings, you idiot. You are advocating the same line of thinking that prohibits women from covering their heads (whether Muslim or Christian--this is also a historical Christian practice) or taking on other self-identifying marks of faith. Just because YOU don't think these symbols are important doesn't mean you can enforce that on everyone else.

Whoosh. Look who’s calling who an idiot.

The question is, do you really want all your Christian and Palestinian coworkers saying, hey, cool, it’s ok again to broadcast our religions (after not being completely ok for a while), so I’ll go ahead pull my confirmation cross/moon back out?

Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by crosses at work or being treated by someone with a cross.

So yeah, those people have brought cases all the way to the Supreme Court. As you rudely said as you missed the point, yeah, SCOTUS has ruled. But the point was the discomfort that made people bring the cases. I take it you’d be fine it though.

I got your point, but I didn't respond to the stupidest part, the "uncomfortable" comment.

What you're really saying is that you're such a bigot that if your Muslim coworker was wearing a crescent necklace you would be...what? "Uncomfortable" to the point of, again, what? It's an absurd and stupid point. You are talking about "comfort" vs. someone closely held religious belief that does not hurt you.

Be "uncomfortable". It is the tiny, tiny price of living in a free, pluralist society.

You can ensure that nobody, ever, would be made uncomfortable by this? Why did anybody bring cases that went all the way to the Supreme Court, then?

No, you have it exactly backwards. I am sure people will be made uncomfortable. My point is that that is okay. It is okay that people are sometimes uncomfortable in their workplaces. Some people disagree, and think they should never have to be uncomfortable at work, so they litigated all the way to the Supreme Court. SCOTUS spoke: Sometimes you have to be a little uncomfortable at work.

See?

I got the decision and you sound like a broken record.

You keep deliberately missing the point. It's that some people ARE uncomfortable. Viz the several religious minorities in this thread who claim they are put off by Christmas displays.

Pls explain why you want to encourage another type of identity politics, where everybody wears their religious signs around their necks. Yes, yes, you can stop repeating already that SCOTUS has sanctioned this. But do you think it's a good idea for anybody (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu) to be putting their religion in others' faces?

Wearing a religious symbol as jewelry is not identity politics, sorry. It is merely identity, and must be protected.

As to your assertion that someone wearing a religious necklace is putting their religion in your face...well, get your face off their neck, I guess.

I won't respond to you any more. The stupid is too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am neither religious nor Jewish so take this with a grain of salt but I think display of identity (any identity) is in bad taste and I roll my eyes secretly at all those.
Discuss this with your loved ones; I have no need to know your identity.
Signed,
A naturalized American

Nobody is displaying their identity for your sake. You know that, right? People tend to dress a certain way to be who they are, because they like it, maybe they want to signal to their own group, show respect to their culture or religion or reflect it, maybe it’s what they find fun or beautiful. It never has anything to do with you and your thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter wears hers to school (a Jewish school) but I wouldn’t let her wear it out otherwise

my mother only let me wear my star of david necklace to synagogue or jewish friends houses when growing up in the midwest in the 1980s. her having me hide my identity through my childhood killed any relationship with judaism for two decades. it seems minor, but please think about the message you are sending your child, which can be construed as having a shameful identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

And rulings have consistently been that religious people are free to wear them. There is no uncertainty here.

Yeah, "there have been Supreme Court case". There have also been rulings, you idiot. You are advocating the same line of thinking that prohibits women from covering their heads (whether Muslim or Christian--this is also a historical Christian practice) or taking on other self-identifying marks of faith. Just because YOU don't think these symbols are important doesn't mean you can enforce that on everyone else.

Whoosh. Look who’s calling who an idiot.

The question is, do you really want all your Christian and Palestinian coworkers saying, hey, cool, it’s ok again to broadcast our religions (after not being completely ok for a while), so I’ll go ahead pull my confirmation cross/moon back out?

Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by crosses at work or being treated by someone with a cross.

So yeah, those people have brought cases all the way to the Supreme Court. As you rudely said as you missed the point, yeah, SCOTUS has ruled. But the point was the discomfort that made people bring the cases. I take it you’d be fine it though.

Most non-Christians hardly need people to wear crucifixes to know that we're minority religions, actually.

Not the point. Do you want Christianity in your face every day? Yeah, didn't think so. There are some pretty bigoted Jews on DCUM and I can imagine their heads exploding.

Do you think that Christianity is not already sort of everywhere, regardless of what people are or aren't wearing as jewelry? Also, do you think no one wears crucifixes already? You seem to be trying to bring up some sort of weird counterfactual where... people do things they already do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

And rulings have consistently been that religious people are free to wear them. There is no uncertainty here.

Yeah, "there have been Supreme Court case". There have also been rulings, you idiot. You are advocating the same line of thinking that prohibits women from covering their heads (whether Muslim or Christian--this is also a historical Christian practice) or taking on other self-identifying marks of faith. Just because YOU don't think these symbols are important doesn't mean you can enforce that on everyone else.

Whoosh. Look who’s calling who an idiot.

The question is, do you really want all your Christian and Palestinian coworkers saying, hey, cool, it’s ok again to broadcast our religions (after not being completely ok for a while), so I’ll go ahead pull my confirmation cross/moon back out?

Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by crosses at work or being treated by someone with a cross.

So yeah, those people have brought cases all the way to the Supreme Court. As you rudely said as you missed the point, yeah, SCOTUS has ruled. But the point was the discomfort that made people bring the cases. I take it you’d be fine it though.

I got your point, but I didn't respond to the stupidest part, the "uncomfortable" comment.

What you're really saying is that you're such a bigot that if your Muslim coworker was wearing a crescent necklace you would be...what? "Uncomfortable" to the point of, again, what? It's an absurd and stupid point. You are talking about "comfort" vs. someone closely held religious belief that does not hurt you.

Be "uncomfortable". It is the tiny, tiny price of living in a free, pluralist society.

You can ensure that nobody, ever, would be made uncomfortable by this? Why did anybody bring cases that went all the way to the Supreme Court, then?

No, you have it exactly backwards. I am sure people will be made uncomfortable. My point is that that is okay. It is okay that people are sometimes uncomfortable in their workplaces. Some people disagree, and think they should never have to be uncomfortable at work, so they litigated all the way to the Supreme Court. SCOTUS spoke: Sometimes you have to be a little uncomfortable at work.

See?

I got the decision and you sound like a broken record.

You keep deliberately missing the point. It's that some people ARE uncomfortable. Viz the several religious minorities in this thread who claim they are put off by Christmas displays.

Pls explain why you want to encourage another type of identity politics, where everybody wears their religious signs around their necks. Yes, yes, you can stop repeating already that SCOTUS has sanctioned this. But do you think it's a good idea for anybody (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu) to be putting their religion in others' faces?

But people already do wear jewelry that represents their religious identity in many cases, and it doesn't seem to have caused any problems. I can't imagine any Jews being upset that a colleague is wearing a crucifix — you do understand that that's declaration of personal religious faith, right? Most Jews also don't have any problem with Christmas decor in the office, but even if they did, (a) too bad and (b) it's different when your office is making a declaration that it's celebrating Christmas (which not everyone does) than when Mrs. Jones in the next cubicle makes a declaration that she's a Christian.

[Anonymous]

Hi. I'm the OP. I want to thank almost everyone for being civil, helpful, sometimes funny, and honest in their thoughts. I am heartened to see that we can get through 6 pages without the conversation devolving (unlike so many other threads) and I really appreciate it. It's so unlike DCUM!

I hear that there are different approaches from "I'm afraid for my safety" to "Show solidarity" to "no need to display ones identity in such a way". And then many other interesting comments as well. I'll give it some more thought. I generally used to agree with the last way of thinking, but I'm starting to think that it might be worth putting my Judaism more forward for more people to see, something I never thought I would say. I do actually have a mezuzah on my door, so I don't feel threatened at home. Walking around is a little bit different.

And lastly to the poster who assumed that I should be more Jewish rather than performative, there are so many assumptions in your simple post, but I will just say that I was raised orthodox and am currently more conservative but am quite "practicing" enough for me and not worried about my performance levels in any area of my life. I have always lived my values and don't much succumb to wanting to perform for anyone. Oh well.

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many Jewish people have been attacked in the DMV for wearing a star necklace?
If you want to wear a star wear a star. I wear a cross.

This. Who exactly has been attacked?
Wear whatever you want. No one cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this would take us down the road of people wearing stars, crosses and moons.

That is, of identifying by their religion.

There have been Supreme Court cases about whether any of these should be allowed in the workplace because it might make others uncomfortable. Would you really want to work in an office where 2/3 were wearing crosses?

And rulings have consistently been that religious people are free to wear them. There is no uncertainty here.

Yeah, "there have been Supreme Court case". There have also been rulings, you idiot. You are advocating the same line of thinking that prohibits women from covering their heads (whether Muslim or Christian--this is also a historical Christian practice) or taking on other self-identifying marks of faith. Just because YOU don't think these symbols are important doesn't mean you can enforce that on everyone else.

Whoosh. Look who’s calling who an idiot.

The question is, do you really want all your Christian and Palestinian coworkers saying, hey, cool, it’s ok again to broadcast our religions (after not being completely ok for a while), so I’ll go ahead pull my confirmation cross/moon back out?

Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by crosses at work or being treated by someone with a cross.

So yeah, those people have brought cases all the way to the Supreme Court. As you rudely said as you missed the point, yeah, SCOTUS has ruled. But the point was the discomfort that made people bring the cases. I take it you’d be fine it though.

I got your point, but I didn't respond to the stupidest part, the "uncomfortable" comment.

What you're really saying is that you're such a bigot that if your Muslim coworker was wearing a crescent necklace you would be...what? "Uncomfortable" to the point of, again, what? It's an absurd and stupid point. You are talking about "comfort" vs. someone closely held religious belief that does not hurt you.

Be "uncomfortable". It is the tiny, tiny price of living in a free, pluralist society.

DP and Jewish. It doesn't bother me when people wear a crucifix or a crescent. They are free to wear whatever they want as an expression of their faith, the same way I wear my Star of David.

I feel differently about religious symbols in the workplace, like a crucifix hanging on the wall of your office or something. That makes a semi-public space into a religious space in a way that your personal jewelry does not, and I don't particularly care to sit in your office for a meeting with a crucifix hanging over us. I have no basis to feel that way, other than my own gut feeling that there is a difference between the two situations, but that's my 2 cents.

Not sure I agree or disagree with you tbh… I think I’d be ok with a symbol of any religion on the wall as long as it’s wasn’t a hate symbol. How do you feel about Christmas decor in the office though? Or other religious decor?

PP here. Personally, I don't love Christmas decor in the office, but I recognize I'm not going to win any battles on that front, so I don't bother.

Yeah. I do think that decorating the walls with the overt symbols of the powerful majority religion is unfriendly to those in the minority, in a way that decorating with the symbols of a minority religion just isn't. But it isn't a big deal, not to me at least. If you're the member of a minority, you would go crazy if you did anything except shrug and accept these omnipresent displays.

I am a religious minority and love Christmas decor. Don’t most people?! It’s festive and has no religious meaning to me. I can still appreciate the beauty of it all.

Same here. I like Christmas music too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to be anti this and kind of felt that it was slightly yucky to go around with your religion around your neck. I felt the same way about crosses too. Since everything that's been going on, I'm wondering if this is something that I should reconsider as a way of showing solidarity with other Jews.

Please don't turn this into a rabid antisemitic thread or one that starts going into Gaza or it will be shut down. I'm curious about the ways that people want to show their jewishness in the current cultural climate. I've seen a lot of very pretty tiny jewish stars. It would just be a real departure from what I've been doing for about 40+ years!

I'm a muslim and even though I don't accept the idea of covering my head even if I did, I wouldn't wear a hijab or niqab outside. I think it makes one a target so no need to invite harm. My sister wears one as she doesn't want society to make her decisions for her by scaring her. Each to its own. Do what feels right. I don't see why we have to wear cross, star or crescent to show our differences, rise above it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many Jewish people have been attacked in the DMV for wearing a star necklace?
If you want to wear a star wear a star. I wear a cross.

This. Who exactly has been attacked?
Wear whatever you want. No one cares

Every visibly Jewish person I know has some kind of story. Somehow I don’t think they are telling those stories to you.

I’m generally not visibly Jewish but even I got a bunch of anonymous text messages about being a “k*ke b**ch” so yeah, if you can’t understand why people would not want to make themselves targets, you have a critical lack of empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many Jewish people have been attacked in the DMV for wearing a star necklace?
If you want to wear a star wear a star. I wear a cross.

This. Who exactly has been attacked?
Wear whatever you want. No one cares

Every visibly Jewish person I know has some kind of story. Somehow I don’t think they are telling those stories to you.

I’m generally not visibly Jewish but even I got a bunch of anonymous text messages about being a “k*ke b**ch” so yeah, if you can’t understand why people would not want to make themselves targets, you have a critical lack of empathy.

This is so true. My dh especially has had issues over the years, but he'd never tell a non-Jewish person about it. They don't want to hear or believe it.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP.

First and foremost, you should wear whatever you want without fear of personal safety. If you want to wear a Star of David necklace, you should be free to do so.

I hope you read the next paragraph in the spirit in which it’s offered. I am not trying to offend you or other Jewish people.

These days, when I see someone wearing a Jewish star, I think they are signaling that they are ok with the carnage in Gaza. I know intellectually that Israel =\= Judaism or Jewish identity. I also know that support of Israel does not mean support of the current government and their actions. That being said, when I see someone today wearing a Star of David, especially someone who until recently wasn’t wearing any Jewish jewelry, o think they are signaling their “side” in the conflict. I know it doesn’t matter what I think and you should be free to wear whatever you want unconstrained by the biases of others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP.

First and foremost, you should wear whatever you want without fear of personal safety. If you want to wear a Star of David necklace, you should be free to do so.

I hope you read the next paragraph in the spirit in which it’s offered. I am not trying to offend you or other Jewish people.

These days, when I see someone wearing a Jewish star, I think they are signaling that they are ok with the carnage in Gaza. I know intellectually that Israel =\= Judaism or Jewish identity. I also know that support of Israel does not mean support of the current government and their actions. That being said, when I see someone today wearing a Star of David, especially someone who until recently wasn’t wearing any Jewish jewelry, o think they are signaling their “side” in the conflict. I know it doesn’t matter what I think and you should be free to wear whatever you want unconstrained by the biases of others.

Not OP. I appreciate the disclaimer you offered there, but that's still very offensive. Do you also assume that everyone who wears a crucifix is signaling their homophobia, or anyone who wears a headscarf supports Al Qaeda? (Not to imply that those things are all apples-to-apples by any means).

[Anonymous]

I assume that anyone who wears a kaffiyeh on the streets of DC supports Hamas terrorists, especially very Nordic and black useful idiots who choose this to signal their virtue. In fact, I also assume they wear it with the same sentiments as swastika armbands used to be word in my grandparents' time.

So there you go, "I'm not racist but" PP.