Are you low key about your wealth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting how so far everyone seems to feel it's a virtue to live quietly versus flashily. Seems that many people stated pridefully some version of "most people would have no idea how rich we are."

Why is that, I wonder? Because everybody WANTS to be rich, right? So when you get there, why do you then want to appear as though you're not?

Or maybe...you just want people to admire that you are rich, but also modest and loveable at the same time. Worthy of envy, but not hatred.

Not snarking, I'm just as guilty. Just interested in what people think about it.

Our family and friends circle is distinctly middle class/upper middle class. We do not want to flaunt anything, or make anyone uncomfortable. We very much value our friendships with people that knew us when we had a whole 10K in a CD.

I also think it's a function of how you're used to living. Since we started with nothing, we're used to living on very little. We aren't, but we also don't care about country clubs or buying whatever the latest fashion is, or fancy cars. When I think back to then versus now, the biggest difference is that I don't worry about balancing the checkbook, making sure that we have what we need in an account, because we *always* do, and then some. If we see something we like, we buy it. We definitely do things that make our lives easier, like outsourcing landscaping and house cleaning. If we take trips abroad, we travel business, not economy. We don't stay at the most expensive hotels, but we also don't stay at the Holiday Inn. We are fairly strict with DD because we don't want her taking our resources for granted, but we also don't make her wait until Christmas or birthday if she say needs a new computer. I feel like things have changed a bit, but not substantially.

You are mc- not weathy.

That's exactly my point. That is how we present. Our net worth is upwards of 35M, so wealthy by anyone's standards.

DP, do you ever feel what's the point of having 35M? Are you planning to put it in multigenerational trust and have your kids and future generations spend it? or planning to give it away to charity?. For us, I definitely want to live and not necessarily pass on all the wealth . If I had 35M, I would definitely treat my extended family more with vacations, gifts, donate more to charity and see the impact while I am alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting how so far everyone seems to feel it's a virtue to live quietly versus flashily. Seems that many people stated pridefully some version of "most people would have no idea how rich we are."

Why is that, I wonder? Because everybody WANTS to be rich, right? So when you get there, why do you then want to appear as though you're not?

Or maybe...you just want people to admire that you are rich, but also modest and loveable at the same time. Worthy of envy, but not hatred.

Not snarking, I'm just as guilty. Just interested in what people think about it.

Our family and friends circle is distinctly middle class/upper middle class. We do not want to flaunt anything, or make anyone uncomfortable. We very much value our friendships with people that knew us when we had a whole 10K in a CD.

I also think it's a function of how you're used to living. Since we started with nothing, we're used to living on very little. We aren't, but we also don't care about country clubs or buying whatever the latest fashion is, or fancy cars. When I think back to then versus now, the biggest difference is that I don't worry about balancing the checkbook, making sure that we have what we need in an account, because we *always* do, and then some. If we see something we like, we buy it. We definitely do things that make our lives easier, like outsourcing landscaping and house cleaning. If we take trips abroad, we travel business, not economy. We don't stay at the most expensive hotels, but we also don't stay at the Holiday Inn. We are fairly strict with DD because we don't want her taking our resources for granted, but we also don't make her wait until Christmas or birthday if she say needs a new computer. I feel like things have changed a bit, but not substantially.

You are mc- not weathy.

That's exactly my point. That is how we present. Our net worth is upwards of 35M, so wealthy by anyone's standards.

DP, do you ever feel what's the point of having 35M? Are you planning to put it in multigenerational trust and have your kids and future generations spend it? or planning to give it away to charity?. For us, I definitely want to live and not necessarily pass on all the wealth . If I had 35M, I would definitely treat my extended family more with vacations, gifts, donate more to charity and see the impact while I am alive.

We currently have it setup as a multigenerational trust. We already treat close family to vacations, and support various charities. DH and I are not in agreement on whether to leave money to DD and future generations; I don't think we should. We owe her as good an education as she wants, and then she should be on her own.

I will also add that there is significant financial trauma in DH's past. His father was exceedingly wealthy, and lost it all due to bad investments and trusting the wrong people. He was reduced to (literal) begging and borrowing. So, DH is extremely, extremely inclined towards wealth hoarding, because he feels like it can all go away in a blink. With all the money we have, he still doesn't feel like it's enough for us to retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting how so far everyone seems to feel it's a virtue to live quietly versus flashily. Seems that many people stated pridefully some version of "most people would have no idea how rich we are."

Why is that, I wonder? Because everybody WANTS to be rich, right? So when you get there, why do you then want to appear as though you're not?

Or maybe...you just want people to admire that you are rich, but also modest and loveable at the same time. Worthy of envy, but not hatred.

Not snarking, I'm just as guilty. Just interested in what people think about it.

Our family and friends circle is distinctly middle class/upper middle class. We do not want to flaunt anything, or make anyone uncomfortable. We very much value our friendships with people that knew us when we had a whole 10K in a CD.

I also think it's a function of how you're used to living. Since we started with nothing, we're used to living on very little. We aren't, but we also don't care about country clubs or buying whatever the latest fashion is, or fancy cars. When I think back to then versus now, the biggest difference is that I don't worry about balancing the checkbook, making sure that we have what we need in an account, because we *always* do, and then some. If we see something we like, we buy it. We definitely do things that make our lives easier, like outsourcing landscaping and house cleaning. If we take trips abroad, we travel business, not economy. We don't stay at the most expensive hotels, but we also don't stay at the Holiday Inn. We are fairly strict with DD because we don't want her taking our resources for granted, but we also don't make her wait until Christmas or birthday if she say needs a new computer. I feel like things have changed a bit, but not substantially.

You are mc- not weathy.

That's exactly my point. That is how we present. Our net worth is upwards of 35M, so wealthy by anyone's standards.

DP, do you ever feel what's the point of having 35M? Are you planning to put it in multigenerational trust and have your kids and future generations spend it? or planning to give it away to charity?. For us, I definitely want to live and not necessarily pass on all the wealth . If I had 35M, I would definitely treat my extended family more with vacations, gifts, donate more to charity and see the impact while I am alive.

We currently have it setup as a multigenerational trust. We already treat close family to vacations, and support various charities. DH and I are not in agreement on whether to leave money to DD and future generations; I don't think we should. We owe her as good an education as she wants, and then she should be on her own.

I will also add that there is significant financial trauma in DH's past. His father was exceedingly wealthy, and lost it all due to bad investments and trusting the wrong people. He was reduced to (literal) begging and borrowing. So, DH is extremely, extremely inclined towards wealth hoarding, because he feels like it can all go away in a blink. With all the money we have, he still doesn't feel like it's enough for us to retire.

With respect to your daughter, I am with DH. There is much life can throw at one. She could have an unexpected physical or mental illness that limits her ability to make her way in the world. Or her spouse or child may suffer these. I would not take good health, no special needs for granted. Even if you have some separate funding for medical needs, it is unlikely to make up for reduced or lost ability to generate income as a consequence of these needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do consider myself low-key in that I wear inexpensive clothes and keep them a long time, we have one car and it's older, and I don't do any cosmetic treatments or wear fancy jewelry. This year we renovated part of our house and that's going to show that we had some money. We also extended my spouse's business trip to Orlando into a Disney vacation. So we are obviously not poor, but I don't think people realize that we have as much as we do in retirement accounts or what we give to charity. I also own a condo that I rent out, but that never comes up in conversation. In terms of privacy/flaunting, I tend to try and match with whoever I am talking to. Like if someone says they went to Disney World, I will talk about my trip there. If instead I am talking to someone who is struggling to pay rent, I will talk about TV shows or a recipe I cooked or something else where we can relate.

This is a great way to put it. I match people in conversation. I grew up LMC/MC and was a financial aid kid my entire life. I would never seek to make anyone feel lesser than financially having been on the receiving end of that so many times myself. We live in a nice but small house in a very expensive area and have a NW of $7 million in late 30s. We drive Toyotas and do not have a lot of luxury items. I like nice things but the Toyota equivalent of nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wealthy?

I guess for purposes of my question, I just mean, if you consider yourself wealthy, whatever that level of income/net worth is - are you open with others about it, do you keep it under wraps, do you do showy things (wear expensive clothing, live in a mansion, openly discuss the cost of things you do like travel, home projects, etc.)?

As for us, HHI a bit over $1M, NW about $4M, and I consider us wealthy but mostly low key. Never upgraded our house; still live in the same neighborhood as we did in our 20s when our HHI was 20% of what it is now. Send the kids to public. But...we have done some showy things too, like join an exclusive country club, take nice trips (and I do sometimes post photos), treat the kids' friends to expensive outings (like sporting events/concerts). So maybe we are flaunty, I don't know. The thought came up because a cousin complained to me about another one of our cousins who just planned a $40k trip to Italy. Cousin #1 thought cousin #2 was obnoxious for discussing the trip details. Cousin #1 is just as wealthy as cousin #2 so I'm thinking #2 didn't think anything of discussing price since he knew #1 could easily afford such a trip if he wanted.

I love the idea of being modest and quiet about wealth. But in practice, living large is also pretty fun. Just wondered how other people feel about it, or what they're willing to admit to. Would anyone actually confess that it's fun to appear wealthy, to be envied, to have more than most? I'd say it is part fun, but also part shameful. I'm now looking at cousin #2 like, crap, I don't want #1 or anyone else to think I'm obnoxious/braggy/flaunty.

Not only do you flaunt your wealth, your NW is incredibly low compared to your HHI.

This. OP is over spending somewhere. Our NW is a bit higher and our HHI is much lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to think I'm low key about it, but some times you can't hide it. E.g. I own 4 homes. I take vacations to Hawaii, Europe, the Caribbean sometimes all 3 in the same year. I don't care about the cost of anything. In direct contrast to our family that lives pay check to pay check. I'm not stupid with my money, but it's obviously different.

Why don’t you help your family out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to think I'm low key about it, but some times you can't hide it. E.g. I own 4 homes. I take vacations to Hawaii, Europe, the Caribbean sometimes all 3 in the same year. I don't care about the cost of anything. In direct contrast to our family that lives pay check to pay check. I'm not stupid with my money, but it's obviously different.

Why don’t you help your family out?

DP. Because it can become a bottomless pit.

My parents were the most successful of all their siblings and they worked harder than anyone I knew. They helped out my grandmother and my dad's siblings, often sacrificing our own family's financial standing. Half of the relatives they helped were grateful. The other half were never satisfied and always wanted more more more.

I see this playing out in my DH's family. They're terrible with money, live above their means, buy expensive cars and accessories while their roof is leaking. When a crisis hits they treat us and other successful members of the family as free ATMs.

Why should PP throw good money after bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anybody “flaunts” it, people just buy/do expensive things. For themselves or their rich friends to whom it’s a hobby, not a flaunt.

Oh, people definitely flaunt it.

Take your family on a luxurious trip to Europe: just living the high life.
Post photos of said trip on social media: flaunting it.

So someone who takes a budget trip to Europe and posts on social media is "not flaunting it" but someone who takes a luxurious trip is? Remember for them, that is simply their major vacation for the year and they want to share it with their friends and family just the same as someone does if they go to DELMARVA beach for a week and rents a condo. It's not always flaunting it, it's just them living their life.

+1. Believe it or not - it is not always about you!

Yup! But I get what OP is saying for some things. I have Family who constantly post photos of them in the First class lounge, first class seats on Europe/Asia flights, and then staying at very high end hotels with posts that definately includes the name of hotel. I know they are doing it to show off/ensure everyone knows they are doing it high end. Whereas we actually are probably worth way more than those family members. however, we just post family photos while on vacation, without tagging our location every step of the way. I think there has only been one time (years ago before we were worth so much) that we posted about being UPGRADED to Business/first, and only then it was because "how nice to have gotten the upgrade since we are now stuck waiting for 2+ hours before we get clearance for takeoff due to weather at the destination", so photo of drinking bubbly while we waited. But I'm not posting about sitting in first class lounges or raving that I'm at the Four seasons this and Oberoi that somewhere in Asia.

You're not like other social media posters, you're a cool social media poster

I don't begrudge people their posting styles but anyone looking at your post would still see champagne and first class so I wouldn't set yourself as rising above anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do consider myself low-key in that I wear inexpensive clothes and keep them a long time, we have one car and it's older, and I don't do any cosmetic treatments or wear fancy jewelry. This year we renovated part of our house and that's going to show that we had some money. We also extended my spouse's business trip to Orlando into a Disney vacation. So we are obviously not poor, but I don't think people realize that we have as much as we do in retirement accounts or what we give to charity. I also own a condo that I rent out, but that never comes up in conversation. In terms of privacy/flaunting, I tend to try and match with whoever I am talking to. Like if someone says they went to Disney World, I will talk about my trip there. If instead I am talking to someone who is struggling to pay rent, I will talk about TV shows or a recipe I cooked or something else where we can relate.

Wow are you me?! Also extending business trip to Disney, life feels pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to think I'm low key about it, but some times you can't hide it. E.g. I own 4 homes. I take vacations to Hawaii, Europe, the Caribbean sometimes all 3 in the same year. I don't care about the cost of anything. In direct contrast to our family that lives pay check to pay check. I'm not stupid with my money, but it's obviously different.

Why don’t you help your family out?

not PP, but for many family, it's not really help---they would become dependent upon it. I have an older sibling who I have helped previously. Yet they never learn/changed---always have an excuse for "why they can't get ahead". In reality they make a decent salary and have their summers off, so they could easily get a job during the summer to pay off debt/get ahead, but have refused to do that for years (their kid is 29, so they could have easily been doing that for last 15 years without childcare issues). So basically I learned that just giving $$$ means I'm supporting their bad decisions but not helping them adjust their lifestyle to avoid these issues. And I have no desire to spend all of my life supporting that. Some people need a bit of tough love to learn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to think I'm low key about it, but some times you can't hide it. E.g. I own 4 homes. I take vacations to Hawaii, Europe, the Caribbean sometimes all 3 in the same year. I don't care about the cost of anything. In direct contrast to our family that lives pay check to pay check. I'm not stupid with my money, but it's obviously different.

Why don’t you help your family out?

DP. Because it can become a bottomless pit.

My parents were the most successful of all their siblings and they worked harder than anyone I knew. They helped out my grandmother and my dad's siblings, often sacrificing our own family's financial standing. Half of the relatives they helped were grateful. The other half were never satisfied and always wanted more more more.

I see this playing out in my DH's family. They're terrible with money, live above their means, buy expensive cars and accessories while their roof is leaking. When a crisis hits they treat us and other successful members of the family as free ATMs.

Why should PP throw good money after bad?

+1000

We would much rather help people who appreciate it, and where it will truly make an impact. Not some spoiled family member who overspends and just expects handouts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do consider myself low-key in that I wear inexpensive clothes and keep them a long time, we have one car and it's older, and I don't do any cosmetic treatments or wear fancy jewelry. This year we renovated part of our house and that's going to show that we had some money. We also extended my spouse's business trip to Orlando into a Disney vacation. So we are obviously not poor, but I don't think people realize that we have as much as we do in retirement accounts or what we give to charity. I also own a condo that I rent out, but that never comes up in conversation. In terms of privacy/flaunting, I tend to try and match with whoever I am talking to. Like if someone says they went to Disney World, I will talk about my trip there. If instead I am talking to someone who is struggling to pay rent, I will talk about TV shows or a recipe I cooked or something else where we can relate.

Wow are you me?! Also extending business trip to Disney, life feels pretty good.

Disney pp here--hope you have a great time! Even with one flight and a couple hotel day covered it was pretty expensive, but we had a lot of fun. I don't plan to go back for a while, but I am glad we went!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anybody “flaunts” it, people just buy/do expensive things. For themselves or their rich friends to whom it’s a hobby, not a flaunt.

Oh, people definitely flaunt it.

Take your family on a luxurious trip to Europe: just living the high life.
Post photos of said trip on social media: flaunting it.

So someone who takes a budget trip to Europe and posts on social media is "not flaunting it" but someone who takes a luxurious trip is? Remember for them, that is simply their major vacation for the year and they want to share it with their friends and family just the same as someone does if they go to DELMARVA beach for a week and rents a condo. It's not always flaunting it, it's just them living their life.

+1. Believe it or not - it is not always about you!

Yup! But I get what OP is saying for some things. I have Family who constantly post photos of them in the First class lounge, first class seats on Europe/Asia flights, and then staying at very high end hotels with posts that definately includes the name of hotel. I know they are doing it to show off/ensure everyone knows they are doing it high end. Whereas we actually are probably worth way more than those family members. however, we just post family photos while on vacation, without tagging our location every step of the way. I think there has only been one time (years ago before we were worth so much) that we posted about being UPGRADED to Business/first, and only then it was because "how nice to have gotten the upgrade since we are now stuck waiting for 2+ hours before we get clearance for takeoff due to weather at the destination", so photo of drinking bubbly while we waited. But I'm not posting about sitting in first class lounges or raving that I'm at the Four seasons this and Oberoi that somewhere in Asia.

You're not like other social media posters, you're a cool social media poster

I don't begrudge people their posting styles but anyone looking at your post would still see champagne and first class so I wouldn't set yourself as rising above anyone else.

We posted it ONCE, mainly because we got the Upgrade (we didn't pay for it) and it was more about the 2 hour delay being announce and being happy we were at least upgraded and had plenty of time to enjoy it.

The family members I'm talking about literally post 10 photos of the lounge and sitting in first class every trip they go on, and label that they are in first class/first class lounge. That's just showing off. Then go onto list the name of every fancy hotel they stay at, every fancy restaurant they dine at, etc. Huge difference vs a few family photos we post while on vacation. We rarely identify the hotels we stay at or where we dine, unless it's a very special occasion.

See the difference?

[Anonymous]

Posting anything on social media is tacky, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a big house, take nice (but not over the top) vacations, and don't hesitate to pay for things that make our busy lives easier, but our cars aren't anything special and we're not flashy with clothes/jewelry/accessories. So I'd like to think we're low key about it, but it's not a secret either.

I read an article yesterday about a therapist who councils ultra high net worth individuals in NYC. You should google and read it. Good insight into how to handle wealth perceptions and being around judgmental people. You shouldnt let what other people like cousins think affect how you act and feel about your own wealth. Billionaire Paul Mellon once said the most valuable thing is privacy. He and Bunny Mellon were insanely wealthy and everyone knew it, and whatever anyone thought about them or how they used their money was irrelevant. They had exception taste and style in real estate, art, travel, fashion, but above all valued privacy becuse they did not tolerate letting people into their private sphere who were judgmental about them, their wealth, or their lifestyle. They were also hugely generous and philanthropic but it was always on their own terms. If someone preasured them or judged them about their money or how they used it, that person would no longer be welcome in their personal bubble of privacy. Privacy was a valuble and necessary emotional protection mechanism and people around them learned to respect their boundaries if they wanted to maintain friendship and family relationship with them.